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America was populated by millions of immigrants, nearly all of them poor with little more than a suitcase.

Welfare and social programs did not make them successful. Opportunity did.

Even Elon Musk arrived with just a suitcase. He stayed in hostels because of lack of money.




You have a point!

It's instructive to see what's happening in Britain right now where many people dare not take jobs or even join training schemes to improve their prospects - because they will lose their benefits. To quote from the Spectator: "A Channel 4 (TV) program Britain’s Benefits Scandal hears from some of those affected – people who are often missing from the debate. We have 3.2 million trapped in a system in which they are given a decent payout – some I spoke to said about £1,300 a month, some significantly more – but who want to get back to work."

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-sickness-benefit-tra...


The same thing can happen in the US- People may be able to get a job, but it will then prevent them from receiving any aid that may still be needed.


I know two (educated and hard-working) people in my immediate circle who intentionally keep their income below $30k/year so they qualify for state healthcare programs that they couldn’t otherwise afford unless they were making upwards of $150k.

So we have accountants and scientists who need back surgery intentionally working part-time barista hours.

As a programmer I’m all for gaming the system by knowing and navigating the rules, but the situation is comical.


Elon Musk, whose father owned but a humble emerald mine, and was driven to school in a Rolls Royce? Or another, poor Elon Musk?


Since you know so much about this, how much did funding did Elon's father give him to start his businesses?


Funding doesn't matter as much as mindset.

If you know you can always go live with your rich family, then the cost of failure is pretty close to 0, so you can repeatedly take big risks until one of them pays off.

Worst case? You end up a trust-fund brat.


Musk started out with a suitcase. He then got a dirty job cleaning machinery. A job anyone could do.


Maybe you need to read it coming directly from Elon's dad then? [0][1]

[0] https://futurism.com/elon-musk-dad-emerald-mine

[1] https://www.the-sun.com/news/7911051/elon-musks-dad-errol-em...


Getting money for living expenses as you study is the life of the average middle class student in USA, he didn't say it funded Musks ventures. The emerald mine made them rich compared to other Africans, but that doesn't say much compared to the average American.


Would there be any ventures if Errol didn't fund Elon's trip to the USA? That's the point, without the emerald mining funding there would be no Elon in the USA, no Elon taking risks in ventures, etc. It can't be looked at in a vacuum of "he didn't get direct money for his ventures", it was only possible for Elon to start ventures because of the emerald mines.


I know several people who emigrated to the US with a suitcase and became millionaires. None of them had a family emerald mine, or any family wealth at all.

If you live in the USA already, why didn't you start SpaceX? Millions of immigrants come to the USA. Why didn't anyone else start SpaceX?


Anecdotal, but… I'd be willing to put the time and effort in to start a company, but I would not be willing to lose my home or fail to provide for my wife & three children in the process as neither my wife nor I have any family capable of taking us in.


You're risk averse. That's fine - but it does not justify being envious of those who do take risks. Musk bet everything he had on Tesla, and at one point was within hours of personal bankruptcy as well as Tesla's.


FWIW, I'm not necessarily envious of Musk, et al.

With that being said, I'm not sure personal bankruptcy is a particularly meaningful risk when the individual in question can enjoy substantial riches by sheepishly(?) returning home to the care of their parent(s).

Granted, neither you nor I know if this is an option for Musk, but given that his mother speaks quite fondly of her son in public, it seems reasonable enough to me to believe that it is.

What I'm trying to say here is: Musk's risks are not mine. Would personal bankruptcy result in both he and his offspring living in poverty?

Celebrating someone for having taken a risk while omitting what exactly was on the line for them is a debate tactic built on a false equivalency which can be used as a cudgel to beat opponents down in arguments if its foundational trick goes unnoticed.

>> He jumped from the building and survived! Why can't you jump from the building too?

> The fire department erected a life net for him beforehand. All I have is sidewalk.


People go bankrupt all the time in the US. That doesn't mean they starve to death.

> Would personal bankruptcy result in both he and his offspring living in poverty?

Musk did spend time in the US with no money. He got a job. It was a dirty job cleaning industrial machinery. A job anyone with a willingness to work could get.

Instead of doing all this guessing and assuming and making up things about Musk, why not read an actual biography of him? The one I read is by Vance:

https://www.amazon.com/Elon-Musk-SpaceX-Fantastic-Future/dp/...

It costs $1.32. No excuses!


> If you live in the USA already, why didn't you start SpaceX? Millions of immigrants come to the USA. Why didn't anyone else start SpaceX?

I don't live in the USA.

Because very few people has US$100 million of initial capital investment.

Why didn't you start SpaceX? As far as I know you're an aeronautical engineer, so why didn't you do something bigger than the D languge?

The same answer might apply to anyone else who you ask that question.


> why didn't you start SpaceX?

It took $100M to start SpaceX. The argument works better if you start with one of the more modest earlier efforts.


[flagged]


I'd invite you to give a counterpoint to what I posted, this type of post is not really in line with the guidelines of HN. You're a dad, act like an adult, please.


You’re a bitter conspiracy theorist, inviting nothing but ridicule.


Again, act like an adult and within the guidelines of this forum.

I invite you to read them again in case you missed/forgot: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

As you noticed by your flagged comment, it doesn't matter what you think of me (I really don't care) but it matters how you behave here. It's ironic because this pathetic behaviour seems much more enticing to ridicule than someone sharing opinions :) don't be pathetic.


Well done taking the high road, Marx.


Thank you!




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