> South Korea has a market of 51 million and an equally horrendous English language fluency
This shows that even on HN, all you have to do is sound confident.
Anyone who has spent a lot of time residing in both countries could tell you this is not true. English proficiency levels are significantly higher in Korea, to the extent that this difference has a societal and business impact on each country.
I have spent a lot of time in Japan and some time in SK and I cautiously disagree.
In both countries I found English levels to vary widely based on which industry and location you were in. I think Korean society in general has higher English skills among younger people especially due to the number of Koreans that have spent significant time in the US. But among IT industries and top graduates I'm not sure there's a big difference.
Among the IT industry there's definitely a noticeable difference, e.g. when you compare IT teams at their big local companies (not local branches of US companies), same goes for non-IT teams. A significantly higher percentage of Chaebeol subsidiary employees are able to conduct productive business in English than at Zaibatsus.
Of course this difference disappears at the top 1% level, but this holds pretty much anywhere in the world. China might be an exception because it's so big, not sure, but elsewhere you're not going to be at the forefront of things if you can't participate in the international community.
Yeah it’s extremely rare to see the typical employee at a major Japanese firm’s office in Japan with passable verbal english skills. So rare they practically don’t exist outside of foreign companies and upper management of Japanese companies and their consultants/‘advisors’/etc…
And this isn’t limited to IT, it’s pretty much the case in most departments.
Decent written English skills are not as rare though.
Exactly this. At their Korean equivalent its the norm that to get a promotion above a certain (middle management-ish) level, there's a hard requirement to get a certain grade on an English speaking test. This is taken seriously to the extent that some people who particularly struggle with English will take a several-month sabbatical just to get up to that level. I've never seen this kind of thing at Japanese companies except for very limited cases where the job inherently required near-daily communication with foreign businesses, definitely not as an org-wide policy. Sure, such English tests are always gamed and not super reflective of actual proficiency, but they're still indicative.
This shows that even on HN, all you have to do is sound confident.
Anyone who has spent a lot of time residing in both countries could tell you this is not true. English proficiency levels are significantly higher in Korea, to the extent that this difference has a societal and business impact on each country.