Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Look son, the only way we're gonna get anything done is abstracting the abstractions so we can actually get some abstracted code running on the abstracted abstractions. That means we need 128 gallonbytes of abstracted neural silicon to fit all our abstracted abstractions written by our very best abstracted intelligences.

In other words: JavaShit ho!




The web took off because cross compiling sucks.

Change my mind.


Then why didn't Java do better? Its tagline was write once, run everywhere.

I remember back in the day setting up cross compiling was horrendous though, so I agree, I just don't think it's the only reason. These days all you do is set a flag and rerun "go build", it's stupidly easy, as far as compiling goes.

The other two things that come to mind is that on the web users expect things to look different, so the fact that your cross compiled app looked/behaved like ass on at least one platform unless you basically rewrote the front end to conform to each platforms user interface guidelines (aka write once, rewrite everywhere), meant that websites could look more how the company making the website wanted it to look, and less like how Redmond or Cupertino-bases companies wanted it to look.

The real killer feature though, imo, was upgrading of software. Customer support is a big expense that ends up sinking developer time, and if you got bug reports and you fixed the problem, you'd keep getting bug reports for that issue and the CS team would have to figure out which version the customer is on, buried three menus deep, before getting them to upgrade. The website, however is basically always running the latest version, so no more wasting everyone's time with an old install on a customer's computer. And they showed up in metrics for management to see.


> Then why didn't Java do better? Its tagline was write once, run everywhere.

Because Sun and then Oracle never though the web would kick off. Sun had the ball of gold in its hands with the HotJava browser. But they thought the web was a fad and abandoned it. They should have continued developing HotJava and hard-pushed for the JVM inside the web-browser as a public standard and then Java would have been the absolute dominant language of Planet Earth today - the rest would be crying in a dark corner.

Another problem was the 2001 dotcom bubble burst. That crash made a lot of senior executives and investors think that the web was merely hype-technology and de-invest in most front-end efforts. Google proved them completely wrong later.


Java's done really well. It's in lots of things:

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

Java compiles to WebAssembly too. Google uses it:

https://web.dev/case-studies/google-sheets-wasmgc


From the TIOBE site[0]:

> Since there are many questions about the way the TIOBE index is assembled, a special page is devoted to its definition. Basically the calculation comes down to counting hits for the search query > > +"<language> programming"

I don't think the popularity of a programming language could be measured by how many hits it has on search engines. For example, it may well be that 50% of those hits are forum posts from people being frustrated because the language sucks. In addition, the fact that a language is in use in a lot of existing systems says little about when that code were written, and which options were available at that time.

[0] https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programminglanguages_defin...


Use whatever index you like. Java's always in the top languages.

Here's RedMonk's: https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2024/09/12/language-rankings-6-2...

Here's GitHub's: https://github.blog/news-insights/octoverse/octoverse-2024/


In addition to the above

PyPL https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html. Java is #2. Jobs

Job scene scraped over 21 months over 2023-24. Java is #3

https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-prog...


A major factor was that early Java in the browser did not support.jar (really .zip) files. This meant every class (and every inner class) required a separate http request (on the much slower http of the day).

You used to have to put everything in one giant class to work around this.

(This situation was so frustrating)


> Then why didn't Java do better?

Bad UI frameworks that failed to be usable and/or compatible across systems. Cross compiling is more than producing foreign executables.


I don't disagree that it came down to UI framework support. It came down to Qt and Wx and neither was a clear winner. The problem was there was nobody with broader ecosystem incentive to make a toolkit that kicked ass on all platforms. It had direct interest but was selling a toolkit and could not make it free/gratis as selling that was their business model. Maybe Firefox with XUL, but they had a vested interest in promoting web sites.



Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: