Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Faraday cages used by law enforcement, such as [1] aren't impervious to RF.

They provide enough attenuation to keep phones off the cellular network and prevent GNSS from working, but not enough to prevent communication with nearby devices via Bluetooth or wifi.

[1] https://ramseytest.com/rf-shielded/forensic-enclosure/




That sounds implausible.

A Faraday cage is an attenuator, which multiplicatively decreases signal strength by some constant (at least within a similar frequency band, which Bluetooth and 5G can be considered to be).

Unless the forensic lab has additional special shielding from cell towers, the received strength of both a reasonably close cell tower and a nearby Bluetooth transmitter would be pretty similar, so they'd both be attenuated similarly.


> That sounds implausible.

I can say from experience that it is not.

> A Faraday cage is an attenuator, which multiplicatively decreases signal strength by some constant

It's not constant at all. The level of attenuation varies greatly based on frequency. For the Ramsey STE3000 I have here, it varies by 40dB or more at the frequencies at which I've tested it. The enclosure good for around -100dB at 700MHz, but only -60dB or so at 2.4GHz.

> (at least within a similar frequency band, which Bluetooth and 5G can be considered to be).

Even if you exclude mmWave and consider only the sub-6 bands, AT&T for example has LTE and 5G bands from 700MHz to 3700MHz. They're not similar at all. Worlds of difference in terms of propagation characteristics.

> the received strength of both a reasonably close cell tower and a nearby Bluetooth transmitter would be pretty similar

No, they wouldn't.

On my Pixel 8 Pro right now I'm seeing -93dBm from a tower about half a mile down the road (700MHz LTE), and -40dBm from the BLE radio in the HVAC controller on the wall of this room, about 8 or 10 feet away. That's a 53dB difference.

If I put my phone in the box, it attenuates the LTE downlink from down the street to well below the thermal noise floor. It cannot do the same for BLE; my phone can still talk to the HVAC controller from inside.


>It cannot do the same for BLE; my phone can still talk to the HVAC controller from inside.

That's surprising, you'd think those boxes would be better at blocking signals since that's what they're designed to do.


They work very well, but it's physically impossible for them to be perfect.


I assumed they have one cage they toss all the phones in.


Ah, then they could definitely communicate with each other.

And while I don't expect stock iPhones to do anything like what's being suggested in the article, I could see custom software activating a "panic mode" based on observations that plausibly suggest a device being in such an environment.




Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: