I would much rather be harsher on violent criminals in general. If you even attempted to murder someone once, especially a stranger, I have no reason to assume you are incapable of a second attempt. And sure, I’d be fine with giving people a first pass in some situations, but we’re talking about career criminals. Do you think it’s okay to let people with violent rap sheets 50+ charges long go free because you value their “liberty”?
I'm not sure what you consider to be violent or what you consider to be a crime. Do you think speeding through a school zone is violent or criminal? What about drunk driving? What about a fist fight?
I am willing to bet that you routinely violate the law. Somehow in your culture that is acceptable. Maybe you ignore a speed limit. Maybe you fail to disclose some income. Maybe you pay a kid to mow your lawn in violation of Child Labor laws. Maybe you take a swing at somebody during a pickup game of basketball. In U.S. culture these are tolerated and even encouraged.
If you arrested people for these things and sent them to jail do you think they would re-offend when they got out of jail? If you haven't changed the culture into which you return them, there is a high probability. Is there anything about prison that changes the culture outside prison in a positive way? I don't ask that in a "See how pointless prisons are?" kind of way. Mostly my attention there is on the environment outside prison.
> I'm not sure what you consider to be violent or what you consider to be a crime
Yes, this right here is the key people are missing. This varies from person to person, from political affiliation to political affiliation. But it also varies within a person. Someone black is not going to be viewed in the same light as someone white. As much as we like to believe this isn't the case, it just is, and we have to account for that.
The problem with IPP is that we start with the assumption the violent are violent and they must prove otherwise. When we begin at a baseline of disadvantage, the potential for corruption is strife. Racism is trivial and invisible in such a system.
I really don’t understand how either of you have any difficulty understanding what is and isn’t violent crimes. There are literal legal classifications of what is and isn’t violent. So do you consider getting stabbed “non-violent”, and is it racist to say that a black man who stabbed someone was violent? You’re so caught up in identity politics that you fail to apply any actual standards to the people you claim to respect.
I am not caught up in identity politics at all. I see white people watch a black athlete assault another athlete between plays on a football field and nobody--black or white--even thinks in terms of violent crime. If the "victim" were to return the favor the next day at the bar, there would probably be a dozen 9-1-1 calls.
Notice that I haven't revealed the identity of the "victim"? Context matters. Identical actions are treated differently in different contexts. Even at the football game, a fan who assaults another fan is treated differently than an athlete who assaults another athlete.
If you don't change the culture in the locker room and the practice field, etc. you will probably not change behavior. If you fine an aggressive athlete then sign them to a big contract because you love their agression, fines just become part of the culture. This isn't black or white. Just ask Larry Bird about every Pistons player and see which one he detests the most. It won't be based on race. But it will be part of their "identity".
Nice try, but it's not clear-cut like you say. Crime varies state to state.
Most drug policy was just a thinly veiled attempt to throw black people in prison, and it worked. There's a reason street drugs, like weed and crack, are treated differently than white-collar drugs like cocaine.
Lots of people got literal decades in prison for smoking weed. Do you believe that was fair? Let's not play stupid. The motivation was racist, and continues to be racist.
I mean, some states like Georgia have modern slavery. That's not a euphemism or exaggeration. Prisoners, almost all black individuals, are forced to work in establishments like McDonald's and Golden Corral for well under minimum wage. They have to work their 40 hours, and if they don't work they stay in prison perpetually.
The rate of parole in Georgia for non-violent crime is 8%. It should be 80%. There's a prison-industrial complex here. It's no wonder then we lock people up for petty crimes like smoking weed and then turn around and let people get away with white-collar crime.
It's not that I'm caught up in "identity politics" (lol). It's that y'all are unable to comprehend institutional, systemic racism exists even when there's no debate. Even when there's mounds and mounds of evidence. Even when we can literally trace modern prison-work program back to Jim Crow. You see all of that (or maybe you don't), and you refuse to acknowledge it.
If we give people the power to perpetually imprison people, they will. It's not a coincidence that the people today in modern slavery are almost all black. It's not a coincidence that the drugs black people are more likely to do come with multi-decade sentences, even if not dealing. It's not a coincidence that program intended to release those on good behavior are also used to justify perpetual deprivation of freedom of self via "bad behavior".
