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Literally just downloaded it. Even if it contains spyware, the freedom to choose to install spyware deliberately is refreshing.



Serious question: if it’s so important to you why use an iPhone? Not trying to be sarcastic or negative, really just curious.


Because the only competition is Android. Apple is the least bad choice if we're talking quality of the user experience. Don't bother comparing specs on paper, use both. And that's even before we take into account that Android is run by an advertising company.

Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed and they ended up getting EU users a bit more freedom to decide what's run on the hardware they paid for...


> Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed

I think it's amusing, it's extremely rare for incentives of a big corporation to align with ours to the point where they'd go to war against giants like Apple.

Epic is equally bad in other areas but I'm glad they fought for this.


> Because the only competition is Android.

It's not. Sent from my Librem 5.


This isn't a good faith argument.

When considering competition for X, the alternative should do at least most of the things that X does. It's not realistic to expect a drop-in alternative, but the user, I think, can't be expected to turn their life around, just to use the alternative, either. If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone.

If the offerings differ too much, then they are not competition. They are different products.


> If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone.

Can that SIM-enabled Windows notebook do phone calls using the cell operator network (that is, not over the Internet)? If not (that is, if it uses the SIM only for data), then it's not an iPhone competitor. The "smartphone" category (which is where all iPhone competitors reside) requires being both "smart" (that is, with PDA functionality) and being a "phone"; the Librem 5 (and, for instance, the Nokia N900) fits comfortably in that category.


Nowadays, and especially for those under about 30, phone calls come near-last on the list of things smartphones are used for.

To change to the Librem 5, I would need to:

- change the way I communicate with all of my friends and family by using SMS over the _only_ method used in much of the world - WhatsApp.

- be excluded from context surrounding many social gatherings due to not being in group chats.

- change the way I travel with very, very different navigation apps that lack turn-by-turn directions.

- stop using social media when on the go - mobile websites often lack many features, if they even exist.

- accept significantly reduced quality photographs of memories, especially in low light.

- meticulously acquire local files for tens of thousands of songs I have organised in Spotify playlists for over a decade, and totally change the way I discover new music.

- lose Shazam and apps like it, so I’ll forever be wondering “what was that song I liked…?”

- entirely change from the mobile-only bank that I use (and, even then, suffer the atrocious UX of most online banking).

- change from the convenience of Apple/Google/etc. photos to setting up Syncthing, my own NAS, and making sure it keeps running and never goes wrong.

- become stranded when public transport stops running at night, as I can’t get an Uber, or try to get a normal taxi at 3am. I’m not even sure they exist where I am.

- carry a wallet, or at the very least my cards, with me for the first time in 9 years.

Unfortunately, the duopoly is well-entrenched, especially for those born after 1995 or so and outside the US (SMS is very, very rarely used in much of the rest of the world). You could tell people that there are plenty of workarounds - I listed many above - and some sacrifices to use a Linux phone, they should try it! But then they would ask “why?” and you’d be hard-pressed to give any reason they care about.


Well said! However, people are different. None of the things you mention matter to me, so I could be using Librem 5 if it wasn't for:

- ability to run apps from a (well stocked) store


> - ability to run apps from a (well stocked) store

You can run Android apps via Waydroid. F-Droid, for example, works fine for me.


I need to try Waydroid. So far, my Android emulation experience was done via KVM + Android x86, but unfortunately many apps need arm things, and the last release is like 4 years old now, which is ancient in smartphone terms. Thanks for the recommendation.


Thank you, TIL!


They also missed the "quality of user experience" argument.


I looked into what this is, and I don’t think I could use my mobile banking apps, my payment cards or software required for work on this. Otherwise I like the idea and I hope it will mature and become a real option one day.


For some banks, Waydroid allows to run the banking app. If your bank forces you into the duopoly without giving a choice, you should complain or switch.


I like Linux phones but it's hard to justify spending $700 on any portable computer, especially one with only 3gb of ram.

I think for most people there really isn't any competition, especially with the lock in from icloud. It was painful for me when I switched to a pinephone (I just use cheogram on a laptop with a 4g modem now, I don't think most people will do that) and I'm generally very careful about using online services like that. Most people just switching between Android and iOS will turn their whole lives upside down.


I used to not understand this as well. Then I switched to Android after some 8 years and can't really remember why I "needed" iOS. Everything works and I am happy. really just choose the better product (for you). Regulation may not happen in time or at all but declining sales will make any business do an about turn at record pace. And even if it doesn't, why do I care?


You change your phone every year?

Because I have this Android phone sitting on my desk for development. When I bought it it was almost as responsive as iPhones (and much cheaper). 4 years later the UI is a lagfest [1].

Meanwhile, my iPhone XS is over 5 years old and almost as responsive as on day one. And I have major version OS updates to blame for the "almost", while the Android one got one major update and was lagfest even before that.

[1] I don't even use it every day, Android development is kind of a side job once in a while.


> You change your phone every year? Because I have this Android phone sitting on my desk for development. When I bought it it was almost as responsive as iPhones (and much cheaper). 4 years later the UI is a lagfest [1].

As a counter anecdotal evidence: I bought my current Android phone before the pandemic started (that is, more than 4 years ago), use it daily, and it's as responsive now as it was when I first used it. While I don't have any iPhone experience to compare, I feel no lag when using it.


Same here, I have a Samsung XCover Pro bought 4+ years ago that still feels the same as when I got it. The only thing notable is the lack of 5G support, but it's only when I switch between it and my work phone (which has 5G) that I really notice the browser loading times.


This is the problem many have with android - there’s a massive difference between different handsets

That isn’t the case with an iPhone


You're comparing Android (an OS) with iPhone (a phone brand).


90% of people think of a phone as “an iPhone” (various versions) or “an android” (various versions)


Because the hardware isn't so relevant. You have exactly two gatekeepers.


I seriously don't understand why performance should degrade so much in time. Do they use crap flash chips in the cheaper models and Android writes so much to them that they run out of scratch space or something?


Your experience seems pretty unique to me.

My family uses Android exclusively (including extended family) and the only cases where performance degraded is with very cheap 10+ y/o phones that could no longer keep up with system updates that now take most of the storage space.

Even those more or less still work after reflashing a leaner FLOSS ROM.

Did you perhaps buy a crapware chinese phone and are receiving bloat/spyware?


> Did you perhaps buy a crapware chinese phone and are receiving bloat/spyware?

No, this latest one is a crapware Samsung phone. Doesn't mean I'm not receiving bloat/spyware.

Come to think of it, the Huawei I used before this Samsung degraded less. But I had to abandon them when they got kicked out of google services. Need a full featured phone so I can develop whatever the customer wants.


Is it because you got used to it? Or maybe it JITs most-used applications? I don't think their experience is unique at all (I also have an Android device for development and it is a lagfest after a couple of years).


> Is it because you got used to it?

No, I know what you mean, I've seen this happen with very cheap (or not cheap but just rubbish/spyware) brands/models that quickly filled the system partition over time with bloatware during updates.

Being cheap, the system partition was already tight on purchase, so the bloat/spyware quickly turns it unusable. The cheaper models tend to have inadequate storage to begin with and install bloat/spyware to subsidize them.

I just don't think it's an "Android" thing, most of those can be revitalized by installing a custom ROM without the spyware (but the crappiest brands are probably not even FLOSS-supported).

What is your device brand+model?


Hmm mine is a Galaxy A21s.

/dev/block/dm-4 3.4G 3.4G 22M 100% /

/dev/fuse 23G 14G 8.2G 64% /storage/emulated

I haven't worked with AOSP in ages, just normal apps. Is root supposed to be 100% full?


Honestly it's been a while for me too and I don't even know how to see the actual device partitions instead of just mounts (e.g. I think in this case your / is just a read-only ramdisk so it doesn't really matter what df says... mine is 100% too.)

I don't even know how this works anymore since I think since Android 10 they use some sort of overlay FS for updates?

I tried installing parted on Termux but it refuses to do so and I have no energy to fight it.

I know it's cliché but... have you tried a factory reset?


> I know it's cliché but... have you tried a factory reset?

I will when it starts to annoy me.

Or I may just get a new phone the next time I need to do Android. This one has 12, they're at 15 now. I may need to be on whatever's the latest on a new project, whenever that comes (not soon).


I don't. I haven't experienved any lags. My mother has had a samsung m30 for a while and everytime I used it, it was absolutely fine. This was a 4.5 years old phone. I got her a samsung a35 this time.


It's about how many apps you install, my phones get laggy as well, but when I format them they're back to being as responsive as day 1.


It's a development phone. It has whatever I run on it through adb, a few nfc and bluetooth test apps and that's all.


Hm, and it got laggy? Is it running out of space?


It’s possible to prefer a product as a sum of all its parts, but have some downsides or criticisms of it.

Personally, I dislike the Android look and feel more than I want the ability to install other app marketplaces.


Performances are better? They like the UI? They really wanted a smartwatch and Apple makes the nicest? Their family uses iMessage? They have a Mac and enjoy the integration?

There are plenty of reasons to have an iPhone even if you deeply dislike the lack of sideloading and the AppStore.


I'd rather suffer the Apple nanny state than the Google spyware empire. And the Google Material UI is eye-bleedingly terrible in its absolute blandness.

I just wish there was a serious third option.


It's a fair question and boils down to a few things. We switched from Android in 2016 for good reasons, but now it would be too costly to switch back.




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