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> The vast majority of excess value held by investors is not directed towards consumption.

So why does it need to be created in the first place then? That takes work that apparently does not need to happen for any other reason than economic, not because it is valuable in and of itself.




>That takes work that apparently does not need to happen for any other reason than economic, not because it is valuable in and of itself.

Value =/= Work.

no extra work is happening at the burger shop. you still need X hours to make Y hamburgers. If anyone works less, fewer people eat.

The extra value is extracted from the buyers (many of whom are workers elsewhere).

>So why does it need to be created in the first place then?

In theory, the utility of investor profit serves as a market signal for what goods are desired, when things should be produced, and what should no longer be produced. Markets determine this through trial and error with thousands of participants simultaneously acting.

In theory, people have proposed doing away with the profit signal, but the only alternative is trial and error from a political process.

for the last 150 years, it has been understood that neither process is perfectly efficient. For most goods, it is conventionally understood that inefficiency of the profit signal is less than the inefficiency of political process.

By way of analogy, Walmart has a 2% profit margin which is a cost consumers bear for Walmart curating the selection of goods they want in the quantities they want. In terms of efficiency, I think it is unlikely a panel of government politicians (with their own motives and biases) could run a store and decide on the types and quantity of goods that people will want in a more efficient way.


> The extra value is extracted from the buyers (many of whom are workers elsewhere).

Who could, in turn, work less if burger prices didn't reflect the need to pay investors more than they invested.

> In theory, people have proposed doing away with the profit signal, but the only alternative is trial and error from a political process.

You can always measure by actual consumption.

> By way of analogy, Walmart has a 2% profit margin which is a cost consumers bear

Note Walmart is subsidised by government programs that pay their employees because the wages Walmart pays are considered too low for survival.


>> The extra value is extracted from the buyers (many of whom are workers elsewhere).

>Who could, in turn, work less if burger prices didn't reflect the need to pay investors more than they invested.

This then invokes the problem that if everyone works less, less is produced. Even if you raise salaries, the options are the same. A) Same hours, same amount of goods to buy, or B) fewer hours, fewer goods to buy.

This is why I am saying "value" is entirely besides the point. What matters is production and consumption. you could cut salaries by 99%, and if production is the same, prices go down 99%. You can double salaries, and if production is the same, prices double.

The amount of "value" an investor has locked up doesnt change this. all that matters is the consumption of investors. If Investors are buying and eating all the hamburgers for themselves, yeah, that impacts workers. If they stick it a locked box of reinvested stocks, it has exactly zero impact.

>You can always measure by actual consumption.

Yes, this has been proposed in the last 150 years of economic literature. The challenge is who measures it, and who controls it. Remember, we already no that the market isnt perfect. The question is if it is better than a realistic alternative. Do you think a panel of elected republicans and democrats, with all their campaign promises, lobbyists, and personal product desires would do a better job of keeping the super market stocked?

>Note Walmart is subsidized by government programs that pay their employees because the wages Walmart pays are considered too low for survival.

Lets be honest about what is happening here. Voters feel bad and want people to have more money than Walmart needs to pay them to secure their work.

Calling this a subsidy is rhetoric. Walmart doesn't need the programs. Walmart will have enough workers either way, or even raise the wage to secure workers if they need to.




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