You realize Le Miz is fictional, right? No one needs to steal to eat, some people choose to steal rather than earn. Stealing is immoral regardless of the circumstance, don’t take your moral philosophy from Disney movies and broadway.
> Stealing is immoral regardless of the circumstance
That's your opinion and your conception of morality. My moral code isn't so rigid that I can't imagine a world of nuance, a world where things aren't black and white, where things don't fit neatly into little boxes.
There are plenty of people in the world who end up in bad circumstances due to things outside their control. And yes, some of them need to steal to eat. Even if it's just for a little while, so they can work on improving their circumstances. Something that's incredibly hard to do when you're malnourished.
This might be the most out of touch comment I've ever read, to the point where it genuinely looks like sarcasm mocking someone who would think like that. Apologies if so.
There is no amount of “being in touch” that could justify literally criminal behavior. The consequences of propagating lawlessness are far greater than starving to death. Unless, of course, you have a self-centered point of view and/or no principles.
If you have a problem with the way the world works, there is always a non-violent course of action to take to change it. There is no other option. If you think there is another option all you have to do is say so, I’m sure the keepers of law and order and the voting masses on whose behalf they act are equally willing to deal with whatever you choose.
I think it's criminal that society allows people to fall into circumstances where they become homeless and/or hungry, to the point where they're desperate enough to need to steal to eat.
"Criminal behavior" is a construct of human society. Morality is, too, for that matter. I have no problem with someone stealing food to survive. Hopefully they are able to do so without harming anyone else. If someone does get harmed, I won't hold the thief blameless, but I also can't find it in my heart to condemn them, either.
> The consequences of propagating lawlessness are far greater than starving to death.
That's a false dichotomy.
> Unless, of course, you have a self-centered point of view and/or no principles.
Do you think no one irl ever stole bread to feed their family only to be extremely punished? ...
> No one needs to steal to eat, some people choose to steal rather than earn.
You're wrong. You're a hundred kinds of wrong. That mindset is a deep, deep sickness.
> Stealing is immoral regardless of the circumstance
If the choice is between stealing and starvation, the moral thing to do is steal. Which is, in fact, the scenario we are talking about.
Not everyone can earn - and in a society where wages have become untethered from productivity for over 50 fucking years, where the social contract is broken and ground into dust, where healthcare and housing are seen as privileges rather than rights, you might start to expect getting pushback on such untethered and inhuman views.
> don’t take your moral philosophy from Disney movies and broadway.
Better than taking it from literal comicbook villains.
The “No one needs to steal to eat” mindset is a “deep, deep sickness”? My brother in Christ what kind of backwards world do you live in? Where on this planet is it acceptable to steal, especially in a mugging situation that implies physical confrontation and the threat of violence? I can’t tell if you’re trolling, you’re actually asserting that you live in a fairytale defending something like Robin Hood.
Wages have never been tethered to productivity, arbitrage has existed since before there was even a currency. Healthcare and housing has always been and always will be a privilege, your human rights only extend so far as they do not infringe upon someone else’s human rights. Doctors and construction workers cannot be compelled against their will to do work, neither can the collective taxpayer.
I think the problem here is they are imagining extreme situations where you genuinely don't have any opportunity to survive without it. Such situations could exist, like in Mao's Red August and a score of other such historical tragedies. But what the commenter is not understanding is that "Morals" matter jack shit in such a situation. "Morals" are a product of civilization, if you are not being treated as human by your society you have no obligation to act as human either.
> But what the commenter is not understanding is that "Morals" matter jack shit in such a situation. "Morals" are a product of civilization, if you are not being treated as human by your society you have no obligation to act as human either.
My gut feeling here is that this isn't even a moral issue at all, but I've been having trouble articulating that point. You absolutely hit the nail on the head with this.
> The “No one needs to steal to eat” mindset is a “deep, deep sickness”? My brother in Christ what kind of backwards world do you live in?
This one! Our world is pretty backwards! If you can't see that, you must live a privileged, sheltered life.
Do you think a world where medical bills can bankrupt people is not a backwards world? Do you think a world with homeless people is not a backwards world? Do you think a world where we incarcerate people by the millions for smoking a plant is not a backwards world? And these are just a small sampling of things that happen in the US.
If you truly don't believe we live in a backwards world, I don't know what to say. You're just so completely out of touch with the reality we live in that there's no way to have a productive discussion.
If we're going to talk morality, a lot of land ownership and resource extraction stands on very shaky ground, given that a lot of land was at some point in recorded (or recent) history stolen from someone else. And stealing is always immoral, so...
