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Berlin TYPE: The official type for the city of Berlin (2020) (hvdfonts.com)
153 points by histories 7 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 54 comments



I love the different font styles being used in the subway stations, there's a wide range of them, with each telling a story from a different time.

As a Berliner, I probably have taken 100s of pictures of them or, in front of them, shared many moments on those stations. They are a core aspect of the city for me, representing change and, at the same time, the past.


A while ago I made this: https://derhuerst.github.io/berlin-subway-guide/

It is based on someone's enormous body of CC-licensed photos of cities in Europe, especially their public transportation systems. [1] – I re-use the photos by assigning them to the station IDs in Berlin's official transit dataset. [2]

[1] https://flickr.com/photos/ingolfbln/albums/ [2] https://github.com/derhuerst/vbb-station-photos


Those Parisian art-nouveau metro entrances: https://mymodernmet.com/paris-metro-entrances/


While we're doing historic metro buildings, I also love the old Art Nuveau Otto Wagner stations in Vienna: https://coeser.de/blog/index.php/2020/08/18/wiener-highlight... (Text in German, but lots of images)


I'm really surprised by the variety. Having lived in Berlin for 6 months I completely missed that detail.


I feel the same here in Vienna, which has so much fascinating typography in the streets, its really quite inspiring.

I've long wanted to do some kind of google-streetmaps style photography project, taking pictures of all the types to be found in the nooks and cranny of the city, some of which go back centuries. I'd imagine having such a collection of Vienna City Types would be quite interesting to throw at some AI and produce real working fonts.

For typography nerds, cities such as Vienna and Berlin offer so much inspiration, although I would wager the distribution and density is better in Vienna, than Berlin - due simply to the fact that Berlin has a lot more space than Vienna does.


For the curious: There's a great ig account documenting typography in Vienna: @fontwien

https://www.instagram.com/fontwien


Nice one, thanks for that! I've found a kindred spirit!


>I've long wanted to do some kind of google-streetmaps style photography project, taking pictures of all the types to be found in the nooks and cranny of the city, some of which go back centuries. I'd imagine having such a collection of Vienna City Types would be quite interesting to throw at some AI and produce real working fonts.

FYI there's this:

https://www.geschaeftemitgeschichte.at/product/spurensuche-2...

https://www.geschaeftemitgeschichte.at/product/spurensuche-2...


That's really awesome, thanks for sharing .. I will add this to my understanding of Vienna typography ..


I enjoy the font diversity every time I visit - same, same - but different.

I hope there will be no drive to replace existing signs for new ones (unlikely, given the state of Berlin's finances) - the various fonts used on signage throughout the city makes up part of the quirkiness which makes Berlin so lovable.


If they are, the old ones might end up in great, although small, Buchstabenmuseum. Definitely worth a visit if you haven't been there yet


I've had it on my list for ages, but never quite got around to it - I seldom get as far east as the Jannowitzbrücke, most of my friends are in Tiergarten/Moabit area.

Speaking of museums, one of the most charming museums I've ever been to in Berlin is the Ramonesmuseum by Schlesisches Tor. Helps being a fan, though.


It's most fitting how the messed up kerning in one of the newly renovated stations, Mehringdamm, conveys the slow decline of this country once striving for excellence.


FTA: “The regular and bold weights are available to all and can be downloaded for free from the campaign website: wir.berlin.” (URL: https://wir.berlin/kampagnen/die-typo)


Neat. Have you been able to find what license terms apply to these fonts, for people who want to use them?


I can only find: "... is freely available and usable for everyone. However, modification of the fonts is not permitted."


Somehow related(?) but when I was in Berlin I noticed all buildings have a white square with a black number for the building number. This is consistent across most (all?) parts of the town but no local was able to explain me why or what's the background of that.

Something like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5309649,13.4099152,3a,15y,52...

Anyone knows what's the name of the font (on topic!) and any backstory on those?


To be clear, not every entrance has exactly this. It's probably always a white square with a black number, but the font can be different, etc.

I looked it up. Of course we have a law for that: https://gesetze.berlin.de/bsbe/document/jlr-GrNrVBEV3P4

The sign has to be visible at night, coming from both directions and needs to be at least 10cm large... That's basically it.


That's interesting... actually the directive only specifies that the numbers should have sufficient contrast against the background, be at least 10 cm large and have their own light source. So, while most seem to have settled on "black numbers on a white square", you are actually allowed to do something fancier if you want. Other cities (like Munich, which I mentioned in a sibling comment https://stadt.muenchen.de/rathaus/stadtrecht/vorschrift/310....) have more strict design rules, but don't require illuminated numbers.


Thank you! It was a small itch I had while walking around the city and you managed to scratch it, really appreciated.


Not sure about Berlin specifically, but many (most?) larger German cities have rules about how the house numbers should look like - after all, Germans love rules and regulations! And this is actually helpful, as it's much easier to find the house number on a house if they have a consistent look.

IMHO the Munich house numbers are better than the Berlin ones, as they also include the street name and (most of the time) an arrow pointing out the numbering direction (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:House_numbers_in...). Not sure what that font is called either though...


> many (most?) larger German cities

I guess those qualifiers cancel each other out? Anyway. Berlin is twice as big as the second biggest city, Hamburg. Munich is the third largest city:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/cities/germany

We've gone over Berlin and Munich, here's Hamburg:

https://www.hamburg.de/contentblob/153026/31a1e4447ce01eb4b8...

- must be placed at least 180 cm above ground, near the entrance or on the side facing a public road

- if the building is too far away from a public road for the number to be recognizable, it must be placed at the entrance of the premises, no lower than 90 cm above ground

- it must be made out of a material that can withstand weathering and provides good visibility of its shape and color

- for certain buildings (office buildings?) the numbers must be illuminated to be visible in low light conditions

Here's #4 on the list, Cologne:

https://www.stadt-koeln.de/service/produkte/00930/index.html

- it must use "arabic numerals" (i.e. not Roman numerals) which must be at least 8.5cm high

- it must be visible and legible from a public road

Frankfurt am Main (#5) does not seem to specify any requirements and thus defers to Hesse, which doesn't seem to specify any requirements either.

https://frankfurt.de/themen/planen-bauen-und-wohnen/planen/s...

I'm not going to go over the rest of the list as the lesson seems clear: some cities/municipalities have strict regulations, some barely have any, size doesn't really seem to be a deciding factor.


It is the Hausnummer (building number). Every building has one and the signs have to fulfill certain requirements.

Usually they increase from the city center outwards, even numbers on the right side, odd numbers on the left.

We write them always after the street name, which drives Google Maps and other badly internalized software nuts.

Buildings don't have official names, some have informal ones, like the Gropius Bau.


Only slightly related but at my house in rural France, at some point the way houses are numbered changed : each house now has a number which is the distance, in meters, from the beginning of the street (and probably with even/odd depending on which side of the street you're on: didn't check).

But, without asking, the authorities did install the new numbers plate on every single house. So it's all consistent, everywhere.

The official reason is if an ambulance or police car has to find a house: because previously none made sense it was hard to find (it's very sparsely populated). Now the idea is that the driver can just engage in the street and drive x meters and he'll be in front of the correct house.

I take it in Berlin there's t least something a bit related in that they have to be visible in case of an emergency (but I'm just guessing).


As a typechecking enthusiast, this title was extremely confusing. I guess it's a good reminder of how our brains routinely jump to premature conclusions as part of their specialization.


Elsewhere on the site, they also write "we created a complex type system for the Liebherr Group"...


Yeah I expected a schema that could describe everything you could find in Berlin which would be quite interesting.


The "Language support" block features text in Latin, Cyrillic (Кириллицу) and Greek (normally Ελληνικά), but the text says Ελληυικά with an υ (upsilon, pronounced "i") instead of a ν (nu, pronounced "n"). Strange place to have a typo!


Second this, I also noticed the typo in Greek. The Cyrillic reads weird too, it's in accusative case instead of nominative I'd expect.


It's a shame they don't list ö, ä and ü (or ß) in their alphabet (although to be fair they are listed in the full list of glyphs) - those are pretty fundamental to .

I kinda like how they're done in the sign for Möckernbrücke - they also seem like an afterthought, desperately added in whatever space was avaliable! See https://www.dreamstime.com/metro-train-station-sign-m%C3%B6c... (apologies for the awful, watermarked photo).


At least it comes out better than that stock image website's rendition: "Möckernbrücke"!


Related - a previous HN thread about Sweden Sans [1] that links to:

  * Finlandica font for Finland [2]
  * Public Sans for USA public sector [3]
  * Mariane and Spectral for France [4]
... among others!

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36775398

[2] https://toolbox.finland.fi/brand-identity-and-guidelines/fin...

[3] https://public-sans.digital.gov/

[4] https://www.systeme-de-design.gouv.fr/elements-d-interface/f...


I feel that compared to the beautiful examples of train station lettering this looks very generic.


I generally dislike these "corporate design" typefaces, because - just like this one - the character set is usually quite small and they're almost never a complete set of styles and cuts - just like this one is just two styles, regular and bold. No italics, for example. Nevermind things like self-declared companies who lack a mono-space font in their corporate design suite (strangely enough they never lack a dedicated Powerpoint headline font).


Let me guess, massive amounts of taxpayers money was paid to them to create this font, that they do not even open source and allow no modifications and such.

Also, the font looks pretty generic and nothing special or unique. I do not see much value here, there are probably 100 fonts that look pretty similar to this.


While I understand the need or desire of a capital city like Berlin to have “good design” and advertise, i.e. “I <3 NY” a font seems deep in the rabbit hole.

Is there much prior example of other metropolis making this deep of a design choice on small details like a custom font?



Jung von Matt is definitely one of the most prestigious advertising agencies in the country, it not the most.


You are right but there is a difference between a good advertising agency (JvM) and a good design agency...

Looking at the advertising award shows in 2022 and 2021 this also seems to be a "gold" idea so Berlin got probably a big discount if they paid anything at all. All for the awards...

Don't look what Jung von Matt Tech does or you gonna cry :D


I think JvM Tech is more of a "vertical integration" than replicating in tech what JvM does in advertising.

I'm also not convinced most of their customers get a significant ROI from picking them over more "down to earth" agencies. I think in many cases it's just wanting to have some of the prestige of JvM without actually being a good fit for them.


Never heard of them.


Most consumers haven't.

Most advertising agencies have.

Some campaigns German consumers would be aware of:

- Saturn, "Geiz ist geil"

- Edeka, "Supergeil"

- Sparkasse, "08/15 Bank" (very beige board meetings)

- Bild, "Bild dir deine Meinung"

Basically if you've seen any catchy ad campaign on German television in the past thirty years it was probably made by them. You don't have to like their work or think that it's good but they've been extremely successful and so have been many of their campaigns.


I live in Germany and never heard of any of those. Maybe I’m not the target demographic. The only catchy campaign I’m aware of is the traffic light coalition campaign but that was written by life. Good acting, though.


The Saturn one (Geiz ist geil!) was unavoidable in the 2000s. The Edeka one (Supergeil) was a viral social media hit in the mid-2010s. I can understand missing out on the second one if you weren't paying attention to German social media but if you were old enough in the 2000s to know what an ad is I have no idea how you managed to avoid that. And even then you'd have at least heard of the phrase because the ads put it back into popular discourse with right-wing politicians chastising consumers for their "Geiz ist geil" mentality.

The Sparkasse ads were also from the mid-2010s. They were basically very beige board meetings of the "08/15 Bank" (08/15 meaning "standard issue" or "run of the mill" in German though the exact origin is disputed - likely somehow relating to the MG 08/15 machine gun of WW1). You couldn't really sit through an ad break without seeing one.


> likely somehow relating to the MG 08/15 machine gun of WW1

Wow, this is really creative. Seems similar in vein to "Berlin to Warsaw in one tank" by Jeremy Clarkson on VW Scirocco.


Not sure if that compares if you mean the use in the ad. "08/15" (often "null acht fuffzehn" rather than "fünfzehn") is a widely used colloquialism in the same way as "standard issue" in English and most people have no idea of its origins. Wikipedia suggests it is very likely tied to that specific machine gun but the exact reasons seem to be lost to time.


If you had heard of them they wouldn't be doing their job right


Does it have an ampelmann glyph? If not I call fake.


If you went through letters the way Germans do, you'd need your own font too.


(2020)


What happend with the font since 2020? Did it get used anywhere?






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