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4-day week made permanent for 89% UK firms who took part in Worlds biggest trial (theguardian.com)
56 points by robaato 11 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 29 comments



Last time I discussed (results from a similar study) this with some higher ups, their knee-jerk reactions was: "If they managed to deliver as much in 4 days as they previously did in 5 days, then it sounds like they were slacking off more prior to the experiment."

I think that for some leaders, no data in the world is going to convince them that one day less of butts in the seat can be a positive thing. They'll forever chase the idea of maximizing 5-day workweeks, and that's that.


Change will probably come when they age out


Progress occurs one funeral at a time. - Max Planck


That sounds like a very clear sign it's time for you to fire your boss and find a better one.


When 99.9%+ of all jobs worth having will be 5 day work weeks it's irrelevant. Then you have how utter garbage the job market is right now and that's a bad time waiting to happen. People really need to get over their bootstraps fantasy and start realizing the problem is systemic.


I know many people working in tech who work 3 or 4 days a week.

My last programming job nearly 10 years ago I was working 4 days a week, and at my job before that there were 3 programmers who were 4 days a week.

Simply list it as a requirement when searching for jobs and go from there. It's all negotiable, if you work at it.


How do you "list it as a requirement"? This seems like a great way to get offers pulled or not extended. Happy to find out what magic you know.


If you really don't want to miss out on offers because of this, you could try to negotiate it after a certain amount of time and you've proven your worth at your job.

In one of my first jobs I negotiated less hours instead of a raise whenever I got offered a raise. I went from 40 hours/week to 36 hours/week to 32 hours/week in a few years.


I assume if one is talented enough, then he or she holds the most power in any negotiation.

I, for one, am not talented at what I do, and have no power in any negotiation. I couldn't even negotiate salary, since I offer literally nothing no one else couldn't offer.

If the workplace mirrored the animal kingdom, I am more of the type of animal that feasts on carrion than hunts for fresh prey. Thus, I would never be able to swing such a deal.

However, I do hope those that can swing such a deal do so, so that it may systemically trickle down to us scavenger type.


There is no magic, you just state what you're looking for early in the process and go from there.

If you absolutely can not relocate, then remote is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is not remote.

If you absolutely can not take a pay cut, then a certain salary is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is less than you currently make.

If you absolutely want to work four days a week, then part time is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is not four days a week.


Yeah, but it's still a matter of supply, no? It'd be like me seeking 1m/year salary as someone with 5 years of experience and no clout. I'm sure there are 1m/yr salary jobs, but I' m nowhere near qualified enough to be taken seriously there.

It's likewise in how I was willing to relocate 5 years ago for my first job. Because I wanted to take any opportunity and many others would pass me over. There's enough supply and enough talent on my end that I no longer need to relocate (plus I lucked out into a house. I'd need to literally triple my salary to justify moving and maintaining this kind of QoL if I was recruited into Silicon Valley), but I haven't seen the same prospects with part time, decently compensated tech work. I've looked out of curiosity due to long term plans, but it doesn't seem to be publicly advertised.


Perhaps those higher ups are right?

I know I slack off, but I also have absolutely no incentive not too. I have always been told that the reward for digging the biggest hole is a bigger shovel.

If higher ups want to play a shitty game, then don't get mad at a shitty reward.


Right for the wrong reasons. If we had a 7 day workweek and it's not as efficient, it's clearly because they are slacking off and have no team spirit.

Slacking off is the uncharitable way to describe at best middling returns and at worst burnout. no one's 100% 24/7. That's why more demanding jobs have even less hours, like firefighters or athletes. The brain is a bit more "durable", but is still just another muscle at the end of the day.


"All the data in the world" is an article like this that refers to a multiple year old study, but of course refuses to link to the study, which describes a grand total of 31 "organizations" that supposedly switched to 4 day work week? (I guess "89% of participants" sounds a lot more convincing as a headline)

An article that refers to a study, which is positive about a 4 day work week, which was written by someone who works for a company that advocates for 4 day work weeks? A study which was literally written by somebody who over 30 years has made it their career to push this idea, and who directly financially benefits from pushing the idea? Written by somebody who profits by selling multiple books about how "overworked" Americans are?

Man, they've sure convinced me. I guess the millions/billions of companies across the world that don't do 4 day work week just really have no idea what they're doing. Those 36 data points provided by the most biased author you could possibly find really is all the data in the world.


Genuine question: What would convince you?


> Most gave their staff one full day off a week, either universal or staggered.

I think that this will start to take off if stakeholders can start to coalesce around a single day. Either Monday or Friday. Once you build up the expectation that people are off on a given day, it becomes that much easier for a new firm to adopt (because, e.g., none of their counterparties are in the office).


I’d rather it was Wednesday I think. Work two days, have a day off, work two days and have two days off seems more attractive to me long term.


Having a 3 day weekend is like have second Saturday whereas Wednesday off is like having another Sunday in the middle of your work week. Saturdays are worth so much more imo. Waking up and knowing you don’t have to work today or tomorrow. That was my experience doing 2 on 2 off vs 4 on 3 off when I did shift work.


I agree with you, but I think plenty of people would prefer to go away for a three day weekend holiday sometimes.


I've found when I take mental health days they tend to be on Wednesdays (usually afternoon only), which tracks.


Tangengial, Do the companies doing mental health days also give them certainty they wont be laid off at the drop of a hat and other uncertainties?


I don't quite track what you mean. I use personal leave for these events (often I don't provide much notice; my brain doesn't either). It's not been a problem so far as I have been told, nor is that a concern I have in my field generally. Being able to take care of things that inevitably fail to fit within the constraints of a weekend is quite beneficial and leads to a lot lower stress levels, which benefits everyone.


Do you tell your employer that you are taking a mental health day, or do you lie an feign some kind of physical illness?

My employer would not respect mental health days by any means. I've taken them before, but I have always faked another illness. I have also always had this overwhelming feeling of guilt and anxiety that if I got caught, I'd be reprimanded.


I usually just say, sometimes earlier in the week, or often the day of, that I'm going to use my personal leave for the afternoon or day, and my supervisor says okay (I've never once been turned down in the almost 8 years I've been here). It's very much emphasized(I've had 3 bosses say this) that my personal leave is for me to use as I see fit, so long as it's done responsibly. For example, if I were taking a week off, I'd let them know probably a month or two in advance, when I started planning. I also have major medical leave separate from my personal leave. I once had to use an entire month(bedridden for 26 days) and it wasn't a problem; I just had to send my doctor's notes to my supervisor once a week while I recovered.


Clarifying - not 89% of UK firms overall - but those in the trial! Of the 61 organisations that took part in a six-month UK pilot in 2022, 54 (89%) are still operating the policy a year later, and 31 (51%) have made the change permanent.


i think that's implied by accurately reading the title


It is but the title also appears to be wrong. It was only made permanent for 51% (31 of 61) of those in the trial. The 89% are still operating the policy but that haven't necessarily formally adopted it as permanent.

> Research shows 51% that took part permanently adopted the change, while 89% still operating policy one year on


Don't laugh, but it may be the biggest impetus to a 4 day week will be the drive to a three day weekend, including Friday, Saturday and Sunday as covering the traditional days of rest of the three Abrahamic religions. This would have a lot of buy in from large parts of the population and politicians.


Religion drove a lot of nonsensical stuff in history, so I can believe it. I wouldn't mind it actually benefiting society for once.




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