> The context of the Iliad, ancient Greece, is completely alien to the modern US, just as it is to modern China
I'm not sure about that. We do not still have the same emphasis on the classics as a century ago, but western societies still inherit a lot culturally from ancient Greece.
Here in Canada, I was taught Greek mythology in school. We examined a play by Sophocles in high school literature. Civics class inevitably brings up Athenian democracy. Philosophy began with Thales. Music began with Pythagoras.
Or to put it another way: the Simpsons once did a parody of the Odyssey. That only works if the audience knows the story of Odysseus. Which of course, they do. Most westerners know it, implicitly, in much the same way the average Chinese person knows Water Margin even if they've never read it.
I wrote the GP comment. Thanks for your comment; it clarifies my thinking and expands my perspective.
Let's not conflate (and I failed to differentiate) Ancient Greece and 'Classical' Greece. The Odyssey and Iliad are older than Classical Greece, the term I'm using for the world of the philosophers, mathematicians, playwrights, etc. I understand that that the two works were core texts for the Classical Greeks, but my impression is that they were from prior 'civilization' (maybe not the perfect term), perhaps like Beowulf is to people in the modern anglo world.
The world of the Ancient Greeks is completely alien to ours, IMHO. Its culture, morality, behavior, customs, etc. are all so different that all we have in common with it as what any humans have in common. Read the Odyssey from a modern perspective - it's bizarre, inexplicable in modern context. For example, Odysseus is a complete failure as a person, a leader, a spouse - he only survives and accomplishes anything because Athena bails him out. The only way to understand it is to try to grasp the Ancient Greek context, where it does make sense. That makes it very interesting and valuable, but it's alien.
Still, I overstated my point in the GP. Alien or not, it is part of our culture, even if mostly indirectly - generations have read it, have been influenced by it, and what it influenced was passed down to us, and we pass it to the next generation. There's no question of that.
> We examined a play by Sophocles in high school literature. Civics class inevitably brings up Athenian democracy. Philosophy began with Thales. Music began with Pythagoras.
Interest in the classics like these isn’t a solid lineage. It’s mostly an invention of Neoclassicism, and was enabled by rediscovery of the texts in Islamic libraries. But neoclassicism still strongly influences North American culture, specifically our civil buildings. It was the counter culture movement when the USA split from Britain. While a lineage is assumed I do agree they are relatively alien to today’s culture.
They aren't "classics", they're pre-classical epic poetry. There _was_ a solid lineage of interest in greek and roman philosophy that lasted all throughout the middle ages, and there were latin translations of parts of the Iliad that were taught. The complete Iliad and Odyssey weren't rediscovered from Islamic libraries, but they were carried west by Byzantine scholars. Neo-classicism wasn't a counter culture from Britain -- it was just as popular in London as it was in Washington -- it's not like England was living in the dark ages while America was in the enlightenment.
Homer is a fairly core part of western culture and you see references to it everywhere. Somewhat famously in O Brother Where Art There, but there's a long list of movies and novels that have referenced it. And idioms from it like "a Trojan horse" and "achilles heel" are all over western culture. It's not a biblical-level cultural touch stone, but it's fairly important.
> The complete Iliad and Odyssey weren't rediscovered from Islamic libraries, but they were carried west by Byzantine scholars
To expand, the 8th century Irish were still copying Greek texts and brought them to Germany (Schottenklöster). Southern Italy used Greek through the 12th century, with the Sicilian Norman kings' courts composing a lot of Greek poetry.
Islamic civilizations cared little for the literary heritage of Greece, unfortunately. (Once upon a time, I dug deeply trying to learn how they handled engagement with Paganism. Answer: They didn't, because they didn't read nor translate Homer at al.) They focused on mathematics and science, their achievements came into Europe through Spain (e.g. the Toledo school) around the 12th century, thus Latinized names like Avicenna, Averroes...
I'm not sure about that. We do not still have the same emphasis on the classics as a century ago, but western societies still inherit a lot culturally from ancient Greece.
Here in Canada, I was taught Greek mythology in school. We examined a play by Sophocles in high school literature. Civics class inevitably brings up Athenian democracy. Philosophy began with Thales. Music began with Pythagoras.
Or to put it another way: the Simpsons once did a parody of the Odyssey. That only works if the audience knows the story of Odysseus. Which of course, they do. Most westerners know it, implicitly, in much the same way the average Chinese person knows Water Margin even if they've never read it.