Left after the dot-com crash, when getting IT jobs without being fired from the newly joined company was a matter of luck.
Now like many emigrants, way beyond the typical age that HR sees as acceptable to still be an IC, instead of a manager for fresh graduate developers, which closes many doors.
Then there is the work culture, that rather promotes connections than performance, managers that misunderstand the flex time concept to mean their employees get to work as many hours as they require them to do so (many times not officially counted for), small shops using pirated software or renewed trial versions, and many other issues.
So eventually after tasting how good work experience feels like, in countries where everyone on the building gets the union deals, stuff gets sorted out when asked for, overtime is respected and paid accordingly, and many other improvements, it is hard to get back, after a certain point.
Portugal is not alone in this, I get similar feedback from many southern Europe friends.
> when getting IT jobs without being fired from the newly joined company was a matter of luck.
Seems like rich countries are undergoing a similar phase as we speak. While it’s not that bad in the uk, the job market is dead compared to a few years back. However, despite being a rich country, overtime and work issues are not respected here either. Many permanent worker contracts had clauses for people to opt out from EU work hours directives.
The UK actually had a derogation on this even when it was in Europe; I think it was the _only_ European country to allow opt-outs for normal employees (most countries had an opt-out, but it was usually only for doctors and maybe some other emergency workers).
It is among some south europeans, such as greek or portuguese. The few english people I met there were happy. Unironically, they were happy they earned a higher wage and could afford property. But that was in bucharest. The most portuguese I met were in Cluj Napoca. French students have also been known around expat circles. Reading stats, it looks like minimum wages are nearly six times higher than Russia's for instance, and average pay twice as much. Also seems to be a high income economy, with increasing numbers of non EU immigrants, from India and Vietnam.
Not that they are in the millions though. But nonetheless the state of affairs in the UK is extremely bad.
> If you take out London. Britain now has the same GDP per capita as Romania. Right wing economic policies have consequences
The UK's economic self-immolation under the Tories has been awful to watch, but it is still a far richer country than Romania.
Romania nominal GDP per capita 2021: 14,858 USD (2021, Google)
The poorest region in the UK is the North East with a nominal GDP per capita 2021 of 24,575 GBP = 31,210 USD.
Things are much closer at purchasing power parity, but then that really should be accounted for at the UK regional level too given housing is so much cheaper outside of London.
Nominal GDP is irrelevant, unless we want to impress the economically illiterate. Let’s face it - the UK is rich but the people are poor. A lot wanted east europeans out because it reminded them if what they are: poor.
Taking the IMF PPP GDP per capita figures for Romania are $41,029 and the UK are $56,836. So even using the PPP multiplier for the UK as a whole (which will underestimate for poorer regions with lower housing costs) that would put even the UK's poorest region on a par with Romania at $41,391.
(Nominal figures aren't completely useless. They reflect purchasing power for globally traded consumer goods.)
> [..] in countries where everyone on the building gets the union deals, stuff gets sorted out when asked for, overtime is respected and paid accordingly, and many other improvements [..]
Where do we find this Walhalla? Would you mind sharing, from your experience, which countries are worth moving to? Thank you!
For example in Germany, if you are doing IT on an industry where the company has an agreement with IG Metal (Verdi, whatever), the deal is for all employees of the company, not just some of them.
That's more to do with the type and quality of the company you work for rather than the labor laws of the country itslef. Plenty of body shops and overwork horror stories with terible managers coming from those countries as well if you happen to work for the "wrong" companies.
It's just that economically performant economies like Switzerland, US, UK, Germany and Nordics tend to have more "good" companies than "wrong" companies, compared to southern/central/eastern Europe where it's moxtly bodyshops, consultancies and outsourcing.
What matters is what those managers are allowed to do on their countries, and the existing laws to punish them if they try.
If anyone is being exploited, it is on them to report the issue to the authorities, and there are ways to do so without exposing oneself.
If the managers are lucky they might even end in some TV "exposed" kind of program.
Up to the affected to fight for their rights, the difference is that back home networking and owning favours tends to be more valuable than being right.
When our politicians show the way, see current goverment downfall, most people don't care about doing the right stuff, when they can get better via other means.
>What matters is what those managers are allowed to do on their countries, and the existing laws to punish them if they try.
Meh, I live in 'socialist' Austria now, that in theory has some strong workers regulations, but some corporations, HR and mangers have become experts at skirting areound those regulations leading to plenty of terrible contracts with anti-employee clauses, long hours, burn-outs and firings without any retribution from the authorities becasue you never have enough exact proof that any specific law was broken by anyone, and employment law is basically at will anyway if you don't have a strong union/workers' council. It's not roses and sunshine everywhere.
I assume Portugal aslo has good worker's rights and labor regualtions on paper, that rutinely get ignored because the jobs market is not in the workers' favor so they have to put up with a market that's not in their favor even though the law is in theory on their side.
Which is why I followed that quote with "Up to the affected to fight for their rights, the difference is that back home networking and owning favours tends to be more valuable than being right.", and "When our politicians show the way, see current goverment downfall, most people don't care about doing the right stuff, when they can get better via other means."
I have had the pleasure to have been part of worker actions explaining some companies foreign managers that whatever they though about employees in their home countries did not apply in Germany.
Just like Tesla is finding out in some European countries.
Naturally doing the right thing does come with side effects to own career, if that is what one cares about.
Now like many emigrants, way beyond the typical age that HR sees as acceptable to still be an IC, instead of a manager for fresh graduate developers, which closes many doors.
Then there is the work culture, that rather promotes connections than performance, managers that misunderstand the flex time concept to mean their employees get to work as many hours as they require them to do so (many times not officially counted for), small shops using pirated software or renewed trial versions, and many other issues.
So eventually after tasting how good work experience feels like, in countries where everyone on the building gets the union deals, stuff gets sorted out when asked for, overtime is respected and paid accordingly, and many other improvements, it is hard to get back, after a certain point.
Portugal is not alone in this, I get similar feedback from many southern Europe friends.