Tesla Model 3, owner here. The list of reasons why I will never buy a Tesla again is too long, but they pretty much all boil down to cheap parts and poor build quality. That goes for their software also, absolute junk.
I don't own a Tesla, but I have a relevant anecdote related to your post. I rented a Model 3 in Switzerland and while the car was drivable, I felt that the interior was cheaply made, giving the impression that I was driving a toy car.
The car had a lot of plastic and whenever I drove over bumpy roads, there were cracking friction sounds everywhere. Additionally, the acceleration was extremely sensitive, making it difficult to maneuver in tight streets.
Your BMW 1 series is considered a luxury car. A new sedan is close to twice the Model 3.
Tesla is not a luxury car company. You pay a premium for the electric part, and put up with everything else.
They took a risk that nobody else was willing to make and proved a market. We're in a better place, ecologically speaking because of them. Their cars are also cheaply made. Now that manufacturers that know what they're doing are competing, Tesla is in trouble.
Tesla has always cut corners on everything besides the powertrain because batteries were so expensive. Now that battery cost has fallen so much, they're upgrading interiors, starting with the Model 3 refresh.
Aside from possibly BYD, other manufacturers have no particular cost advantage over Tesla in BEVs. Ford and GM are still losing money on each one they sell, and have cut production for next year.
I agree on the Model S, some of the interior feels cheap (but some does not). In particular the panels around the door interior don't mount very well or stay put. The rest of the interior seems good though. This coming from an Audi A8, which had a really great interior.
I’m surprised that you find the software to be junk.. that’s supposed to be one of their strong points. I found the software on the Model S I borrowed for a trip a while back quite nice. But I guess the issues aren’t surface level?
My 2016 Model S has had this happen a few times. I have even upgraded to the new computer (so the touch screen no longer feels like a Motorola Xoom), and I occasionally get this issue - but it's much rarer today than it was pre-upgrade.
Major complaint here: when it does happen, it takes minutes to reset, and you can't see your speed and get no audible cues for what is going on with the car. It is an extremely dangerous failure state.
My partner and I share a Tesla. It's 'mained' under her account. About 25%-50% of the times I enter the driver's seat - it varies depending on the version it's on - it forgets my driver profile and I have to reconfigure the mirrors and seat. This bug was first reported in 2020 IIRC and never fixed. Never buying another Tesla. Their only advantage is the network of superchargers.
Weird. Is your wife's phone nearby by chance? The only time this happens to me it's because we are both walking to the car together and her phone unlocks it before mine does.
And why would that feature rely on a phone in the first place instead of letting the driver change the profile when getting behind the wheel? Or e.g. use a fingerprint sensor or interior camera (which some of the Teslas do have)?
That sounds like some software guy somewhere didn't realize that those seats in the car aren't only for carrying air but that actual people or, gosh, occasional other drivers ride in them too.
Sadly this is rather symptomatic for many things coming out of Silicon Valley (not only Tesla).
It needs to let you select the seat _from the door_ before getting in, without access to the touch screen, else someone 6ft getting in after someone 5ft is in for a miserable time.
Even if she were near, I'd expect it to select her profile and let me select mine. Instead it deletes my profile entirely and I need to reconfigure my seat, mirrors, and any drive settings that are now at default.
There's a setting I just noticed for the first time this morning that lets you define a phone as the "primary" device - the description in the UI suggests its to prevent issues like you described. I'm not sure how long that feature is been there, but my phone is set up as the primary, and I've not had any weird profile issues. To be fair though, my wife rarely ever drives the Model 3, so we've had fewer chances to see any issues.
I've had my car for about the same length of time. It is fun to drive when it's working. The first two years were uneventful, but it was evident that the build quality was subpar and the software substandard. And I'm not referring to the entertainment system here, but rather the software that controls the car itself, which falls short compared to my Volvo XC60. The fly-by-wire system lacks the necessary redundancies and telemetry/logging to fail safely. My experience involved the car's computer malfunctioning while in lane-keeping cruise control (Autopilot, not FSD). The vehicle would abruptly and violently swerve out of the lane, crossing over the white line into adjacent lanes and towards barriers. Tesla initially attributed these issues to wheel alignment or tracking. It took several service appointments and months to convince them otherwise, requiring me to mount a GoPro in my car and dangerously recreate the issue, which randomly occurred after about 45 minutes of cruise control driving. It wasn't until I contacted their PR department and threatened to involve the press that they took the matter seriously.
What a perilously flawed failure mode. Yet, throughout these months, during which the car swerved erratically at least 20 times, no alerts were triggered, nor were errors or crash dumps logged that could be detected by their technicians or the main office in California. It required GoPro footage from inside my car to highlight the issue.
Their service process is Kafkaesque. Phone support is ineffective, and you're relegated to using a text box in the mobile app that only accepts small image attachments. Videos cannot be uploaded directly; they provide an email address, but emails can;'t contain links or they will be blocked and emails with large attachments won't work. Each interaction feels like starting from scratch, as they don't seem to review the history or notes of your issue.
As for the humidity or fog in your headlights, they claim it's within specifications and will dissipate once the car warms up. There's so much more, phantom breaking at highway speeds, exaggerated range estimates, slow headlight dimming, headlights that need constant re-calibration, terrible rain sensors and wiper modes, etc. etc.
I rented a model 3 yesterday. I generally like the car, but the autopilot* was indeed a big letdown. It would exit cruise control/lane keeping mode occasionally due to 'system error'. This precipitated a DEFCON 5 type emergency with visual and audible alerts, not to mention sudden drop in speed and loss of automatic steering.
Even when it runs nominally, it prompts you every 20 seconds or so to apply turning force to the wheel (counterintuitively, as you want to go straight in the lane). If you are momentarily distracted (like having a relaxed conversation) and miss the warning, boom, DEFCON 5. Do that a few times and now the car will actively prevent you using autopilot, like an overbearing mother.
The feature that is supposed to make driving more enjoyable, instead ratcheting up anxiety towards almost giving everyone a heart attack. I drive other cars all the time and they do this fine. So weird.
*autopilot = I am just talking about cruise control + lane keeping, i.e. press down on the stalk. Not sure about the naming.
> Even when it runs nominally, it prompts you every 20 seconds or so to apply turning force to the wheel (counterintuitively, as you want to go straight in the lane)
This is a huge issue with Tesla's system, they were too cheap to actually detect hands on the wheel and instead train you to exert undue force on the wheel which can lead to steering incorrectly. The timing for the system is haphazard at best and often dings you for not having hands on the wheel when you do, but you were too busy driving to pay attention to the prompts.
I admit I never had a service need that prevented me from driving: I have a preemptive A/C tube replacement and I have an appointment to replace a tire pressure monitor, so I can't attest to the quality of service.
Regarding autopilot, I agree that it's bad. I don't know how it compares to other cars - I've never driven another car with lane-keeping - only a Toyota and a Volkwagon with adaptive cruise control, and my Tesla seems to be as good as they were.
In truth I think the whole "self-driving car" idea is a horrible mess. If I were a regulator the only self driving I would approve is Level 5 - full self driving, and maybe level 4 which is really level 5 just geofenced. Either you're driving the car or the car is driving itself, you can't have it both ways.
Adaptive cruise control is still you driving - because if you lose focus or attention for more than a second or two you'll slip off lane - while lane keeping is horrifying to me because you could lose attention for half and hour and still be fine - right until you're not (and neither is the person you hit).
All this to say that yes, Tesla's autopilot is crap, but I don't use it and wouldn't use a competitor's version, so I don't measure it by that yardstick.
> It took several service appointments and months to convince them otherwise, requiring me to mount a GoPro in my car and dangerously recreate the issue, which randomly occurred after about 45 minutes of cruise control driving.
Then post the video and publicly call them out?
> It wasn't until I contacted their PR department and threatened to involve the press that they took the matter seriously.
This is where ya lose me... Tesla doesn't have a 'PR department'
> This is where ya lose me... Tesla doesn't have a 'PR department'
He probably means he contacted the email address listed under the heading "Press" on their contact page. At any other company the department that handles that address would be called the PR department.
You say this as if it is something somebody should be reasonably expected to do, rather than this is something no one should reasonably have to deal with.
Tesla had a PR department up until October 2020. It's entirely possible that the person you're replying to was experiencing the issue before that date.
Same here, have a Model 3 for 1.5 years and so far my best car ever. Parts and material aren't top notch but I feel I get my money's worth.
Unless the car becomes a pile of junk under me I don't see all the hate. As with any popular product, you'll find people with several sigmas of bad experience.
Not the OP, but I've daily driven a Model 3 for several years now and have a list. It's not a huge list, and some of them aren't unique to Tesla, but a lot are.
Problems that I think are unique to the Tesla:
Even after 4+ years of driving, I still hate the door handles. They require so much more dexterity than "normal" car door handles. You gotta aim your thumb at a quarter sized spot, then push in so that your fingers have a chance to catch the lever before you pull your thumb away. Normal car doors are stupid enough that they could be opened by a lobster. When the Model 3 handles freeze (which happens where I live), the user manual instructs you to hit the handles with your fist. Like a caveman. How about real door handles?
The entire top sheet of glass spontaneously shattered while just sitting in my garage. I was sweeping the other side of my garage one afternoon when there was what sounded like a gunshot. I looked over and saw that the top class window had just fully cracked diagonally across the entire pane. There were no rock chips on its front edge (a common precursor to full shatter), no kids standing on it (a less common precursor). My best guess is that the body of the car warmed up in the garage after coming in from the cold, but the glass itself wasn't yet warm enough and that was enough to cause thermal expansion that was incompatible with it wanting to remain whole. Cost $1500 to replace, and Tesla refused to cover it under warranty, claiming it was not a manufacturing defect. No appeal, no second opinion. Also, it was during covid, and it took 7 weeks for the glass to arrive. So for 7 weeks, I had a very big, open, sunroof.
Then there's the UI. This is my single biggest gripe. Parts of it are objectively terrible.
The part of the UI that tells you how fast your car is going is, compared to the rest of the UI, microscopic, and rendered in a grey on white background. It's not in your line of sight, which requires you to turn to look at it. I figured out a hack though - let someone else, like my wife, tell me when I'm speeding. That only works when she's in the car though. When she's not in the car and tells me I'm speeding, I tend to ignore her.
When you're stopped at a stop, there are dancing grey car and truck models all over the place. There was a tiny old Toyota pickup truck next to me the other day, and the UI wanted to simultaneously render it as a traffic cone, a big box truck, a motorcycle, and then a sedan. It never could make up its mind, and decided to just place it sideways growing halfway out of the model of a box truck that was meant to represent the Toyota Corolla that was in front of me. What's the point of devoting more than a third of the UI to this endeavor? To show me how wrong the computer always is about what's around me?
Here's a fun one that made it to my list super early into my ownership experience: sometimes the UI will reboot while you're driving 75MPH in the middle of rush hour traffic. That makes for some serious puckering, even if it's happened 10 times before. No worries though, after driving blind for about 2 minutes it comes back online.
One time, it came back online to the "romance" app, showing a lovely fireplace and adjust the fans to gently blow warm air on me to set the mood. I was not in the mood. I was using the route navigation to get me someplace. Instead of knowing what exit to take, I was enjoying a warm fire. On an August afternoon in Los Angeles rush hour traffic.
Then there's the Autopilot experience. Not Full Self Driving, but just Autopilot. When you're using it to stay within lanes, it'll aggressively try to center itself in the lane, which is good for staying in the lane, but if you pass an onramp, and the right lane line vanishes for that onramp to merge into the lane you're in, the car will violently align itself between the left lane line, and the onramp's right lane lane. It'll happily do that whether you're going 20 MPH or 100 MPH. I don't use Autopilot any more.
When I go to work in the morning, while backing out the overlays that show your rear and side cameras will appear, but imagery from the cameras will often take over a minute to appear. But not always, and it's that part that's the most unsettling. Why be slow sometimes and not others?
Let's talk about the front trunk latch. Is there an actual trick to close it the first time, gently? I still don't know how to best close it. I don't think I'm alone either. Yesterday while at a Super Charger I saw two different people trying to close their frunk at least 3 to 4 times each. One of them even got into an argument with their passenger for how best to do it. I rarely use my frunk anymore because I hate trying to close it.
What's crazy to me is: despite all of what I just said, damn I love driving it.
It's why I think Tesla is stupid for not pursing a bare bones, "dumb" version of the Model 3. Give it physical buttons, no driving assist fluff, real door handles, minimal glass. I'd trade in my current Model 3 for that, no question.
100% agree on the door handles. They're objectively worse than regular old handles. But I got used to them.
I... haven't really heard of anyone else having the roof spontaneously shatter. I imagine my opinion would turn as well. If I hear of more cases I would definitely change my mind and sell.
The UI is terrible, but living where I do there's traffic almost all the time, and I generally go the speed of the car ahead of me, so I'm not really concerned with speeding. I don't mind turning to see the speedometer, my previous car, a Yaris, had the speed display at about the same angle from me.
I haven't experienced lag with the cameras.
Closing the frunk was always easy for me I just lean on the top gently for a second and it latches no problem. I don't use it much though.
I hate autopilot, see my comment above.
+1 for loving to drive it. You have the power you need and the ride is smooth. I'm told some of the other electrics are also as smooth, but the Supercharger network and my experience with non-Tesla public chargers makes the choice of an electric very easy.
The shattering roof glass isn't all the uncommon. Quality control has a huge impact on the odds of that glass shattering too. If the leading edge of the glass is any height above the trailing edge of the windshield it's more prone to rock chips. When that happens it provides a place for stresses from body flex to concentrate and break. When the Tesla repair shop was looking at my car, the got out a loupe to try and inspect what remained of the leading edge of my glass. They didn't find anything, but they said if they even found an abrasion on the glass they wouldn't cover it under warranty. Frustrating, to say the least.
The Supercharger network is a very nice part of the Tesla experience. When I first got my Model 3, I assumed that non-Tesla charging networks were at least functional, but learned very quickly how much of a mess other networks are.
Any time I've attempted to charge somewhere other than a Supercharger there were issues. Either the charger simply didn't work, or the rate of charge was slower than if I'd connected to a 110v outlet.
Another benefit I often forget about is how I can park my car in my garage or driveway with 50 miles of range at the end of the day and wake up to 300. Having the "gas pump" at home is fantastic and something I often take for granted. It's also hard to convey the benefits to those who don't charge at home. It seems like a trivial thing, and it's even something I feel weird about being so enthusiastic about. I try to tell people it's like having someone fill your gas tank every morning. For about $10.
I've considered replacing my wife's car with an EV that isn't a Tesla, but the thought of dealing with the craptastic non-Tesla charging networks stops me every time. I'm hoping that sentiment will improve as more manufacturers join the network and the overall charging experience improves, rather than decline due to the influx of new vehicles using the network.
Admittedly nothing too impressive. Common sedans and SUVs. Several models of Toyota Corolla, a Land Cruiser, a VW Polo, Renault Zoe, Nissan Terrano II, Nissan Rogue, Prius, Mazda 2, Mazda 6, Dodge Charger, Hyundai Accent, Kia Nero. Bunch of others I'm forgetting; definitely no luxury brands. A couple of motorcycles, and a tank, once.
Interesting. I had a model 3 for a couple of years from new (company car) and nothing went wrong at all. I enjoyed owning it quite a lot. And while I was irritated by the unnecessary UI rethink (maybe 18 months ago?) that worsened usability (I mean, HTF does that even happen?) overall the software was reliable, responsive and usable, and far better than any other car brand I’ve experienced.
I’m vacillating over buying another Tesla in the future. If I could guarantee a similar experience to my last car I definitely would, but I’m also wary of getting stuck when something goes wrong and the only recourse is Tesla’s anecdotally expensive/unreliable/un-customer-friendly “service”.
I also have a Model 3 and don't feel that way. The only issue I've ever had with it was a door sensor that went bad. Someone showed up at my house and replaced it in under 5 minutes at no cost.
All in all, not a terrible experience.
My last Nissan shut off (including the power steering) in the middle of the road while I was driving; I don't recall the exact problem but it was related to the motor. My BMW blew a headgasket. My Subaru was recalled for a faulty transmission. None of those flaws are even possible with an all electric drivetrain.
Every time I get in the car, the left&right side mirrors change their position with a few extra mm to the outside. The heads-up display loses its saved position every few trips. Profile management is a mess, as is recognizing the wrong driver (me or wife) when we are both in the car. Unlocking the car with my iPhone is a hot mess. The US connecteddrive app (which I use since I have the US AppStore) does not work with the European account made on an European car (which I own).
And these are just a few of the software problems BMW has. On the hardware side I experienced electrical problems, badly installed parts, crappy rubber and complete loss of coolant. New car, lightly driven, btw.
I bought a new MB CLA 6 years ago, done almost 100k. Nothing broke, never had a problem with software or hardware. Only maintenance was oil, brake fluid, break pad, filters, summer tyres, windshield wipers. Batter is still good, next year I'll replace break discs.
I've been tracking, drifting and driving quite hard (bloody potholes!). I don't think I'll ever sell this car.
It would be much more productive to ask why rather than to dismiss my observations as some sort of grunge against the CEO. See my other comments.
I also have a Volvo XC60 with lane keeping, I find it's much more reliable than Autopilot and doesn't dangerous "phantom break" at highway speeds for no reason. See my other comment for some more, but not an exhaustive list, of the issues I have with my Model 3.
The phantom break thing is irritating, but it's probably due to the emergency braking system, which saves lives in its own way. Does the Volvo have a similar system?
Yes, I believe they were one of the first companies to have that feature. It was on my previous XC60 too, which was my primary car. I never experienced one case of phantom breaking on the highway, while I don’t drive a lot I believe 4-5 years of driving XC60’s has given me a good feel for their system.
