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What’s ‘pretend’ about the jobs?



They don’t actually exist. Same way a building full of PO Boxes doesn’t really create local jobs in the US.

Google would therefore employ the same number of people in Ireland with or without favorable tax treatment +/- the butterfly effect from any significant policy change.

Edit: Alphabet has workers in Ireland, but they also have workers in UK, Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, Poland, Norway, and Sweden. Ireland is mostly attractive for it’s educated workforce that speaks English fluently and is willing to work for cheap compared to CV wages, while also being inside the EU.


Interesting.

So do you mean that as some part of the agreement, to be treated as a "genuine Irish company" (from a tax perspective) Apple was forced/strongly nudged open R&D, assembly or commerce centers in addition to the mailbox/lawyer shell offices?

While I'm sure the grunt of Apple's actual molecule movement business is in China (or elsewhere; not Ireland), these Cork job listings (for instance) seem real, no? https://jobs.apple.com/en-ie/search?location=ireland-IRL


I believe it bears pointing out here that Apple's first factory outside of the US was set up in Ireland in 1979. All of the Apple IIs sold in Europe were built in it. The manufacturing jobs eventually moved on to China, but other roles replaced them. The fact is that Apple has had a sizeable workforce in Ireland for nearly forty-five years.


They don’t need a genuine Irish company, the Alphabet >>shell corp<< doesn’t have any workers in Ireland. Edit: to be clear Alphabet itself does, but that’s not part of the tax doge.

Also, they have offices in every significant country in Western Europe. UK, Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, Poland, Norway, Sweden, and yes Ireland.

https://about.google/intl/ALL_us/locations/?region=north-ame...

Obviously they don’t have anyone in Vatican City.


Alphabet has a massive workforce of X000s in Ireland, spanning full time, part time, and contractor/vendors. They operate multiple massive buildings around Grand Canal, across product areas.

Not sure where you saw that they have no workers in IE?


> and yes Ireland.

I think you missed that bit so I edited it for clarity.

I am not saying they have no workers in Ireland, I am saying Ireland’s tax policy doesn’t increase the number of workers.

As the Alphabet shell corp has no workers. Alphabet itself does. It’s a 190,000 worker behemoth attracted by a cheap English speaking workforce in a reasonably close time zone.


Fair enough, to be clear, I completely agree that Alphabet is massively dodging taxes. Just that, they have a significant workforce unlike Apple.


Apple does a a significant workforce in Ireland ~6,000 people out of 22,000 in Europe. It’s their shell company that’s empty.

https://www.apple.com/ie/job-creation/

UK has ~6,500 so together over half their European employees are in English speaking countries which makes sense.


The Apple subsidiary which supposedly makes all the money and conveniently isn't taxed on it doesn't even have employees in Ireland anyway.

It's entirely a paperwork confection to justify not paying taxes. If you did this in a country with a properly funded tax collector, you'd get told to pay and then they'd just seize the money or throw you in jail.

But when Apple do it Ireland celebrate because hey, instead of Apple choosing some other random place to fiddle their taxes, they're doing it in Ireland...

If you're American or (like me) British you shouldn't feel smug because your country enables much the same thing, just not in this specific case. Both the US and UK have strong rule of law (which means crooks feel sure when they collect the locals don't just shoot them and take it all) but weak transparency (which allows crooks to operate). The same formula which attracted Apple to Ireland.

Transparency improved in both US and UK in last forty years, but mostly so as to weed out small players. If you need to hide $400k from a bank job, neither country wants to help you any more. But if you have $400M from corrupt arms deals in the Middle East, they're very happy to have you as a valued customer and will be sure to slow walk any pesky "investigations" which threaten to reveal that you're a crook in time for you to stroll off with your money before anybody shows up with hand cuffs, especially because it's embarrassing for them to admit their "transparency" is still shit.

In the UK we instituted "beneficial ownership" rules requiring that companies must say which human individuals control them. But, while some dubious firms actually obeyed these rules, plenty more just filled out bogus data knowing the government doesn't want to look under any rocks as it knows it won't like what it sees. Companies House (the regulator) claimed it had zero funds to investigate even the most obviously bogus paperwork.

A campaigner had filed paperwork claiming their firm was owned by Tory politicians even though it wasn't - and IIRC suddenly Companies House found enough cash to prosecute exactly one bogus filing, the one embarrassing their political masters. Transparency? Transparent bullshit.


For context, the UK enables massive tax dodging and shady dealings through its network of crown dependencies and overseas territories, amounting to £152bn a year.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/30/king-charle...


When I worked in engineering at Google they definitely put a lot of people in Dublin due to the tax agreement. It was very clear.


Where you directly involved in their decision making process, or is that just an assumption?

Dublin is a a very attractive place for tech companies outside of any tax policies. Workers speak English fluently, work for cheap compared to CV wages, and have a reasonably close time zone.

For comparison, Apple started manufacturing there all the way back in 1979 and has 6k employees in Ireland plus 6.5k in UK out of 22k in the rest of Europe. Language is a big part of that. https://www.apple.com/ie/job-creation/




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