Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
The 34-year-old airline novice who thinks he's Richard Branson (thetimes.co.uk)
54 points by robbiet480 11 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 50 comments



He’s completely right about the domestic airlines. I remember growing up how Delta was the top airline to fly out of my area. That you received the best service and quality of food on the flight. Now they all buy the same meals from the same service and cram seats into planes. They’re all the same now and if they’re all the same, price is the only differentiator.

I would happily pay extra for better comfort and service. I look forward to flying global someday.


Same. Don't care about perks, just give me 1.5-2x the space, and I'll give you that much more money.

Instead, many routes are either cram in tight for cheap, or buy a first/business class with room to lay. Just give me something in the middle, please...


Most airlines have premium economy these days. It's the same as economy but the seats are a reasonable distance apart.


Not nearly big enough. It -feels- like those were standard seats of yesterday, and regular economy got even smaller.

Give me 6 inches extra width and legroom. That would be 30% wider, and about 20% longer, for a total of 156% of original total area. It would make everything feel so much nicer that I'd gladly pay 156% of the ticket price, if not more.


For domestic flights premium economy feels nearly indistinguishable from standard. Even with more leg room they're still the same width.


It feels like Premium Economy is what Economy was a few years ago, and Economy is basically anything they can unbolt and sell me seperately. I fully expect my next flight's safety lecture to feature "In the event of tubulence, please tap your card next to the contactless icon for the oxygen mask to drop."

What I'd like to see is an airline with: * Single-class seating * No frequent flyer programme.

First and business class create weird perverse incentives: they'd rather leave seats empty most of the time in the hope they'll get a few business travelers not spending their own money, or people who managed to grind their way to Triple Oganesson status and managed to drag an upgrade out of the system. The rest of the time, it's just an obnoxious reminder that they could be providing a better experience, but you're not paying them enough to get it.

Frequent flyer programmes will never make sense for a large section of passengers. So again, it's just another thing to hassle customers with, either as extra steps in checkout, or a place to say "well, if you spent enough money with us every year, we'd let you skip to the front of a queue."

I think the most flights I've taken in a year was four return trips, to two different destinations, using three different airlines. There's no way I could generate enough points to earn meaningful status or "free" travel in a practical timeframe, and even if I could, it's not going to change the fact that many city pairs have limited service choices. I'm not sure there are enough points you can give me to justify injecting a 50% price premium, flight change and four hour layover into a trip that's three and a half hours if I go direct via $other_airline.

The best I could do is instead intentionally select a rewards credit card programme, and attempt to divert spending to that to attempt to rack up points. If I'm going to use a rewards card, I'll use one that reimburses me in actual money, instead of a corporate scrip subject to surprise devaluation or blackouts. Theoretically if I line everything up just right, I could get 42% back in the form of Air Koryo Fun Points, but only if I use the card on months with no "R" to buy UberEats delivery of pork rinds. By comparison, 1.5-2% of hassle-free American Dollars across any purchases feels like less of a cryptic puzzle made by a DM who spends too much time in Excel, and more of an actual incentive.


Whenever I’ve looked with seatguru they’re the same seat size as economy.


It depends a lot on the airline. Some of Air New Zealand's premium economy seats are better than some business class seats I've flown, some (looking at you, United Economy Plus) are literally just a few extra inches.


Yeah, it's the same seat, the only dimension that increases is distance between the seat in front, but increasing one dimension provides more space, yes?


First class is often not more than 1.5-2x… so I guess the airlines did that!


Um..no?

I just looked up the long haul I've taken most - Detroit to Tokyo.

Delta economy is $1160. Delta business is $16,983.

First is available via United, for over $24,000.


I really don’t know why anyone flies the major carriers domestically. They aren’t better in any way than Southwest and they aren’t cheaper than Frontier.

I have money so I pretty much only look at SW for domestic flights. I would only start flying Delta/United/AA if I had so much money I weren’t flying coach or if I lived in a market SW didn’t serve.


Isn't SW the airline that completely fucked almost all of its customers nationwide last holiday season because they don't have a hub and spoke network? That is probably a good enough reason not to rely on them at this point.


Can't speak for the US but the extra cost buys you reliability and convenience. I can be late to checkin and assuming the gate's still open I'll make it out on time. Try doing that on a budget carrier.


But how does it compare to SW? I’m trying to not sound like a shill, but do you have free cancels and changes up to 10 minutes before boarding, kiosk check in and curbside baggage check? Super easy to use website and app that doesn’t hide costs and also makes it easy to change flights and see the exact price difference and actually refunds you money if the new flight is cheaper?

With SW I’d be completely comfortable booking a flight 6 months out that I had a 25% chance of actually taking.

I’m trying to actually understand why the major airlines have customers.


Delta gets most of my business travel. I live near a second tier Delta hub (Boston) and all of my recurring business trips in the US are non-stop (most) or one-stop (a minority).

I can book my trip, select my seat (none of the trying to check in 23h59m59s998ms ahead, only to find you got A12 anyway and then 42 people had some reason to have priority boarding including the in-flight miracles where someone needs a wheelchair to board early, but walks off on their own), and if there are irregular ops challenges, Delta likely has 2-5 other similar flights in their network.

We fly SWA sometimes for personal travel and I can say “it’s better than Spirit, but I prefer Delta.” (We fly Delta even when it’s our own money, unless SWA has a non-stop and Delta doesn’t.)


Not enough people would happily pay extra for this idea to fly


Maybe a small airline could analyze demographics of certain routes/times and carve out a niche serving upper class clientele or something.




And London to LA or NY are definitely routes with that demographic.


The last all-business-class flight that served London to NY (BA1/BA2) was shut down in 2020.

It flew from LCY to JFK with a stop at Shannon in Ireland for quick refuelling and US Immigration preclearance (so you landed in NY like it was a domestic flight). It was an Airbus A318 in a 32 (if I remember correctly) all business class configuration.


It stopped in Shannon to refuel, since LCY is too short for commercial transatlantic hardware to take off with enough fuel. The customs clearance in Ireland was a smart way to take advantage of the stop to make things less painful in New York.


Brexit probably killed it


Nothing to do with Brexit at all, since Brexit had 0 impact on travel between the UK and the US, or on air travel between the UK and Ireland for that matter, because neither of those countries were in the Schengen area.

Covid killed the flight.


Brexit killed England as a financial center. That also impacted travel to the usa


If infants are involved I would.


I mean, Delta’s certainly not amazing (although, ok, Delta One is awfully nice), but I will still 100% go out of my way to book them over, say, United or American.

Like a sibling commenter, I fly PDX so will usually fly Alaska but Delta is a solid #2.


You can buy business class. Much better service and much better comfort. But you probably don’t want to spend that much, which is where the problem lies.


Air Canada has a premium economy option on many flights, that costs like 20-50% extra for more width and legroom. I've never been tempted by it though— until there's a lie-flat bed it's still just going to be a long uncomfortable sit no matter what.

I wonder how many people do pay for it vs just get it as a status/points upgrade.


Seems you're completely missing the point. The baseline experience is much worse for the same or more cost. Of course spending (a lot) more money gets you a better experience. That's probably part of why they make the baseline experience so unbearable.


> for the same or more cost

Adjust for inflation, and baseline tickets are cheaper than they were a decade ago, and significantly cheaper than they were a decade before that. The only reason the difference isn't even more significant is that prices are now at the point that it's nigh-impossible to cut anything further and still have a functional flight.


Interesting if true, I hadn't noticed that.


This is why I only book Alaska when flying out of PDX. I know the quality of service I will get and I don’t even bother looking for cheaper flights.


Airlines are reflecting the demands of the consumers


I've been looking at various things slowly crappifying and just waiting for someone to come compete on quality an eat everyone's lunch.

The thing about the race to the bottom is eventually someone comes along to gobble up all the goodwill that's been squandered.


Airlines have gotten particularly bad with staffing, delays, hidden fees, service, and more. Wish they were a better business so people would come compete properly. Best wishes for this guy for sure


One of the big players will surely buy him up before so much as a bite of the lunch is missing.


The article says he has already had one offer. He has to sell if they're going to buy.


Yeah, we really really need more competition in this space in particular.


Well I for one wish the crazy bastard god speed.

I hope he pulls it off.


New York-London/Paris is the graveyard of new airlines, especially those promising better service than the legacies: L'Avion, La Compagnie, MAXjet, OpenSkies, etc. I wish him luck, but it's going to be incredibly hard to fill A380s of all things profitably without a massive feeder network and plenty of whales for the front of the plane.


L'Avion was purchased by OpenSkies and was operating alright, pre-COVID. You're kinda misattributing the failure here from a worldwide unforeseen global pandemic to "bad business decisions".

MaxJET failed because they tried to price themselves nearer to a budget airline while offering business-class seating/experience. The low margins this offered forced them to close down when they couldn't adjust for fuel price fluctuations and salary increases. A closer analogy, but still not quite there.

La Compagnie still exists and operates their premium Newark<->Paris line.


> MaxJET failed because they tried to price themselves nearer to a budget airline while offering business-class seating/experience.

Which seems to be exact playbook that Global is trying out. Quoting TFA:

Global Airlines will be better than everybody else because they won’t skimp on the things that make flying fun — their A380s will have “communal areas”, first-class passengers will be chauffeured direct to the airport from their homes, they already have a partnership with Laurent-Perrier champagne — but their tickets won’t cost much more than those of their competitors.


He’s probably convinced that because $10,000 of Instagram ads resulted in something that is maybe profitable under that tech accounting scheme where nothing negative counts, $100,000,000 of ads will work just as well.

Anyway, flying New York to London too… that’s like flying New York to Vienna.


Yea giant incredibly expensive to operate airplanes feels like a massive red flag to how well thought out this business plan is.


I’m curious who is bankrolling this effort. According to the article, he founded “Holiday Swap”, and that gave him the cash to start Global Airlines. I could only find one investor.

That being said, based on what I’ve gathered, he might be starting the airlines with wet leased airplanes from HiFly[1]. So, my guess is this starts as a custom livery, and custom services.

That being said, this seems weird on the “sniff test” basis, and seems very personality driven — which we’ve seen be successful before (wework, Tesla, Apple, FTX, Virgin Group). I think if they’re able to pivot from a reality distortion field to a viable business, this will be wonderful!

[1]: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/global-airlines-to-...


TFA says he bought mothballed planes outright.

HiFly seems to be refurbishing and then servicing them.


Hasn't fancy London to NYC flights been tried multiple times?


Someone linked this[0] on a post here recently about how suits were making a comeback. Anything to suggest this isn't just the same?

[0] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: