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what? chimps destroy humans at remembering sequences of numbers



Here's a BBC video showing how good chimpanzees are with short-term memory. Short version, the chimp beats all humans at the memory test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXP8qeFF6A


In that video the chimp beats one human who thought he was smart but appears particularly bad at that test.

They are different tests, though. You don’t need sequential memory to win that test, you just need near photographic recall and the general knowledge of numerical order.


> just need near photographic recall and the general knowledge of numerical order.

oh yeah it's way less impressive if chimps just have near photographic recall and general knowledge of numeric order


I’m simply noting it is a different category than sequential memory and does not constitute a rebuttal of the conclusion of the linked paper.


Oh please, with the sequence flashing for microseconds I would wager 90% of humans wouldn’t be able to beat that chimp.


I don’t disagree with you, but that’s not what the video showed.


The paper [1] makes a kind of subtle distinction that these aren't sequences, because the information is all presented at once:

> We do not focus on how animals represent single stimuli, or many stimuli that are presented simultaneously. For these reasons, test paradigms that involve simultaneously presented arrays of stimuli are beyond the scope of this study [39, 40], as responding to simultaneous input does not require the recognition of temporal stimulus sequences, even if subjects perform behavior sequences in response to complex input [41]. This also applies to the well-known studies where chimpanzees learned to point to the location of up to nine numerals that were presented simultaneously (see [42, 43] for studies on chimpanzees, and [44–46] for further discussion about these results).

Indeed, the videos of chimps casually acing those tests shows that all the numbers are given at once, and only disappear when the 1 is touched -- the test is getting the positions of 2 through 9 in the right order without being able to see them. The authors of the paper seem to argue that this is different from memorizing information that is presented sequentially.

That said, this does feel like an incorrect finding for other reasons. For example, some gulls seem to rely heavily on scents to navigate, learning a route of thousands of kilometers by a sequence of scent landmarks [2]. This information is presented to them in sequence and seems like a counterexample to my layman's eye.

[1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

[2] https://www.icarus.mpg.de/30188/seagulls-navigation


> The authors of the paper seem to argue that this is distinct for memorizing information that is initially presented sequentially.

It is: think about how you would naively work an n-back of randomly ordered symbols. Most people can’t do more than a few n-back.

However if I have photographic recall I can count forwards or backwards trivially. These are very different mental processes.


I remember reading somewhere this was for juvenile chimps only, and they lost the ability as they matured.


Someone once told me that humans are basically juvenile chimps


No


Well I've been thoroughly convinced by this argument.


GP should provide evidence then


Why not google “chimp short term memory?”

It is a pretty well known phenomenon, it makes sense that someone might not bother linking it.


No.

Great argument, right?


You should be though. Without evidence, raw skepticism is a valid argument. My prior beliefs were not updated by either statement.

Though I agree the polite/generous version of this is asking for source rather than just posting "No".




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