> The book’s morality was a sticking point even for the most sympathetic critics, with Edwin Muir lamenting that “his good people are consistently good, his evil figures immovably evil”.
Can we please fucking stop pretending that every work of fiction must be about several factions in shades of grey fighting one another in a universe where Objective Good and Evil aren't a thing?
I also isn't accurate. The Elves are generally good but don't help at all costs, they are fairly self-serving (or seem to be). Gollum is a swing b/w pity and anger. Gandalf and Aragorn tend to hide information (for the betterment of the mission it seems). Plenty of other "characters" are self-serving, Eagles, Beorn, Mr. Bombadil. Even Sauron was once good and there's hints that people believe he isn't pure evil or had some good to do.
Ironically, there are very few characters in Tolkien who are consistently and unwaveringly good -- the huge majority, including some of the central figures like Frodo and Sam, had at least some moments of darkness, however fleeting.
> the huge majority, including some of the central figures like Frodo and Sam, had at least some moments of darkness, however fleeting.
Yes, but not due to their own inherrent greyness, but because of the corruptive influence of evil they fought against. That's a huge difference to my eyes.
True, but it's always obvious what the good thing is and what the evil thing is at any point. The characters themselves may falter but what they should be doing is immediately clear.
This is why I tapped out of breaking bad about half way through.
Brilliantly done show, blah blah. But no one in it was sympathetic anymore after a certain point. Everyone was a horrible human being - I find it hard to watch that.
It is valid thing to point out for a critic. Just like unrealistic physics or one dimensional characters are.
Objectively angelic vs evil was extremely common setup in cheap literature. It is easy to write and people used to consume tons of it. Be it detective stories, adventures, westerns, goodly good vs badly bad was common.
> It is valid thing to point out for a critic. Just like unrealistic physics or one dimensional characters are.
That presumes that Objective Good and Evil are somehow just as unrealistic. That's very much debatable, though I'd not be surprised if right here on HN people can't see that.
> Objectively angelic vs evil was extremely common setup in cheap literature. It is easy to write and people used to consume tons of it. Be it detective stories, adventures, westerns, goodly good vs badly bad was common.
Yeah, so is grey and grey morality. Hacks like GRRM make bank with objectively bad people on all sides, and it's tauted as 'realism'.
It's a story about a world where God and deities objectively exist and interact with it in visible ways, it makes sense everything turns around being for or against them.
There isn't much of an economy or progress in general, with magic being a thing. The only sin the good guys are allowed is Pride.
This is relevant for some fantasy worlds, but not for Middle Earth.
Morality in Middle Earth is clearly not derived from divine mandates. Magic is relatively rare and not used to support economic activities all that much. It is in fact on its way out by the end of LoTR.
Well, there isn't much of invidual every day morality in LOTR basically. It's more of a morality for kings tale.
who is the most moral character? Gandalf. And he is a mouthpiece from the Valar to men.
Who are the most moral people? The elves. They're closest to the Valar and are always good, to the point you can debate whether they have free will or not.
What's the job of a moral ruler? To fight the beasts of Morgoth and men not from the north west, all the people that never got told morality from the Elves in ancient times.
what's the ultimate sin? to challenge God and the Valar, of course. God will sink your continent to the sea and reshape the planet if you dare.
But… no? I don’t think this is what people generally believe at all. The elves are certainly not the most moral faction.
The morally challenged characters in my opinion are Boromir, Sam, and Pippen.
Almost every main character is clear that they desire to do good. Their struggle is not navigating grey space, but trying to figure out how to overcome barriers to do so (personal, hierarchical, self sacrificial, etc.).
Can we please fucking stop pretending that every work of fiction must be about several factions in shades of grey fighting one another in a universe where Objective Good and Evil aren't a thing?