First, I'd never think that let alone would I ever say it. If a woman wasn't mutually interested in having sex then all thoughts would be off. As for rape, I find the notion so abhorrent and disrespectful of the victim that if forced at gunpoint to commit the act it'd still be off because I'd be incapable of an erection.
The issues are with both innocent mistakes and of those of which one is not even aware of having made, and of the fact that if accused of sexual harassment or rape and even if found completely innocent—which is seemingly increasingly difficult to do—then some mud will still stick because that's the first thing people will remember whenever one's name is mentioned.
Fortunately, I've never been accused but I'm increasing aware of the possibility—just being male puts one in the risk zone.
You responded to a comment about that sort of bullying with a comment along the lines of "Working with women can be a minefield". It felt like a weird juxtaposition to me.
Personally, being falsely accused of rape is not something I've ever spent time worrying about because it's not happened to me, anyone I know, or - to my knowledge - any friends-of-friends.
The odd case is reported in the news from time to time - but who knows why particular stories get picked up by the media [0]. Paying attention to that stuff gives you distorted sense of how likely something is, by providing a bunch of bogus input to the brain's availability heuristic [1].
"You responded to a comment about that sort of bullying with a comment along the lines of "Working with women can be a minefield". It felt like a weird juxtaposition to me."
I did not use those words, this is the second post where I have had to correct wrongful assumptions about what I have said. Why is it that everyone
nowadays automatically makes the worst assumption about anything that's said? This is a very noticeable and nasty trend of recent decades that wasn't common when I was younger.
If I have to spell the obvious out in detail then I will. First, working in my office alone with three women wasn't the first time I had worked with women, there were others in that organization that I worked with and also in previous employment. Second, I was both friendly and behaved properly and professionally with the women in my office. Not only were they my friends but also my closest allies in the bureaucratic wars with other departments (they were part of my IT help desk team and they always had access to strategic information which they freely offered without pressure or bribes from me. We worked well as a team should.
Moreover, they were on a first name basis with my partner who would phone regularly and they would take great delight in talking to her about me behind my back. Being the only male in the office of course I was bullied but in the nicest sense. I was lucky that they all got along well together and all of them with me. Later, I was promoted and moved office, there I was alone this time with only two women both of whom I also got along well. However, that was over 25 years ago and whilst harassment issues were alive and well back then they were nothing like as acute or as corrosive as they are today—it seems that little else permeates the work environment or work culture to the extent this matter does. It's clear to me these unresolved and difficult submarine harassment matters are testament to the fact.
I have been lucky in that I have had a good professional relationships with all women I've worked with but I cannot say that about all the men.
Given the heightened state of the politics surrounding these issues nowadays I reckon I wouldn't be so lucky next time round even if I were to be even more professional than I have been previously.
Simply, had I need to repeat my time over today then I wouldn't repeat that exposure as a precautionary measure.
I apologise that I paraphrased your words poorly. I don't doubt you are well-intentioned and act professionally. Which is why I think you would have little to fear. And it's probably worth taking precautions, but not worth getting stressed about.
What I and perhaps others found a little off-putting is that you replied to a story about women being subjected to rape jokes and other bullying with the risks you think the modern "political climate" poses for men.
My point, perhaps irritably expressed, is that I think those risks are overblown. Certainly more so than the risks women face.
It's not about raping, wow you have a low opinion of men.
It's about the sexual tension, the emotions, jealousy, consensual pairing causing drama, etc.
And why is no one asking women if they even want to be in such a spot. I know I'd feel odd if the genders were reversed and it was a very female dominated space that was asking me to be one of the 10% of men quota.
That was a direct reference to the article linked by the grandparent of my original post, regarding bullying suffered by women serving on UK nuclear subs.
Someone responded to that with a comment I read as "yeah, working with women can be a minefield". Sorry if it seemed a bit out of the blue.
> It's about the sexual tension, the emotions, jealousy, consensual pairing causing drama, etc.
Surely this is just part of the human experience. Learning to deal with it is part of growing up. That's not to diminish the difficulty experienced by people going through this stuff, but what's the alternative?
Don't have women on submarines. I mean, that's the alternative whether it's palatable (for any number of reasons) or not. And, as someone in favor of having mixed teams in general, it's admittedly difficult for me to imagine the warfighting advantage of a mixed submarine crew.
Anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, reconnaissance, special operations support, land attack, and nuclear deterrence don't seem to have any particular characteristics where the presence of women on the crew would be advantageous. This is in contrast with something like civil affairs or certain types of special operations, where women bring new capabilities to the table. That said, the berthing in new boats is designed around mixed crews so clearly the horse left the barn a while ago, so it's beyond time to figure out how to make it work.
Uh, unless you're in the habit of saying things like "I want to rape her, her and her, lol", it's really not anything to be stressed about.
If you make an innocent mistake, someone may tell you about it and you get to learn something. That's it.