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I have some strong, contentious views on this that I'd like to subject to a good debate. I.e., "tell me why I'm wrong..."

But I know HN isn't a great forum for emotional topics like that.

Any suggestions for where I can have that kind of discussion online?




Twitter is unfortunately still the best place.

But instead follow people who are involved in policy decisions, social workers, psychologists, housing advocates etc. As you will get a more nuanced look at some of the issues.

Drug use and homelessness are two of the most complex problems in society to solve and usually require multi-faceted approaches across a wide array of disciplines to solve.


Drug use and homelessness are two of the most complex problems in society to solve

Homelessness is not a complex problem to substantially ameliorate: https://seliger.com/2022/06/29/homelessness-is-a-housing-pro.... Northern California has tried absolutely everything to reduce homelessness except building more housing: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en....


Social housing does work but can be hard to do well.

Places in London that built large scale apartment complexes for social housing saw them turned into slums with rampant drug use, violence and criminal activity.

And it can be harder to get smaller-medium density housing to work because you're constantly fighting against local governments and NIMBY types.


Slums are a substantial step up from people sleeping on the street. It localizes the issues, such that social services can be provided centrally, it keeps the more problematic elements away from the rest of society, and at the end of the day having an address and shelter is a huge step up from having neither.

If building slums eliminates homelessness, that's a net win. No need to let "perfect" get in the way of "better".


>Places in London that built large scale apartment complexes for social housing saw them turned into slums with rampant drug use, violence and criminal activity.

...some places were just badly designed and encouraged the slum aspect (and associated problems).


Or, just enforce laws and follow the proven “broken windows theory” of policing. Which worked in cities such as NYC.


While the environment in which a person lives may dictate their value of their surroundings the real problem is a lack of hope. To further compound the lack of hope the local government has proven itself inept at solving the problems it is responsible to solve let alone the problems it is not responsible to resolve. That said it makes applying a "broken window" theory next to impossible. I do hope and pray they figure it out. For the sake of those on the street and the honest person that travels through there daily.


As you say, not HN. Also not reddit, for different reasons.

Maybe write something up in substack and push it on twitter. @mention Shellenberger and others?


You could try https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/. Not sure what the quality is like now but it had some interesting discussions in the 2010s


Any forum which is against diverse but calmly-presented views backed with data is not a good forum.


Hilarious that this is downvoted.


I didn't downvote your comment:

> Any forum which is against diverse but calmly-presented views backed with data is not a good forum.

but I do think it over-simplifies things.

For example, I find HN to be a good forum for back-and-forth discussions about technical topics. But IMHO discussions involving ideology are far more likely to go off the rails.


If it goes off the rails, it probably is not backed by data or logic.


I'd try https://www.themotte.org, it's like /r/slatestarcodex with the training wheels removed.


And inability to opt out of the reddit redesign...


lesswrong.com maybe

Hn is a great forum for it though, all things considered.


I wish it wasn't though. I come here for tech news, if I want politics I talk with my friends.

This place has some pretty frustrating opinions.



Hence why i wish there was less politics here. They're bait for annoying comments, mine included. Me & u would both be happier if we didn't have to be frustrated by eachother


Well I find great joy and fascination in what happened in the last 3 messages of this conversation.....it feels rather novel. Is the inverse of frustration fascination?


HN is a tech worker bubble. It's a terrible forum for these kinds of topics


themotte.org


I disagree. I've always found HN to be a great place to discuss things like this. In fact, HN sometimes feels like one of the only places I can discuss things like this without being downvoted to hell and back.

Speak your mind.


I appreciate the suggestion, but unfortunately my experience on HN has been the opposite.

Heck, even my question, above is currently rated (at most) -2, for reasons I can't fathom.




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