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Imagine if I was under investigation for drug trafficking, or tax fraud, or whatever have you. “He had Tor on his computer to access the Dark Web” is extremely strong jury bait even though it doesn’t intrinsically mean anything. The government might not be able to prove what, if anything, I did - but I'll still probably look pretty dang guilty just for having it.

The other downside would be how trying to be secret can shine a spotlight - kind of like the bomb threat at that school (I’m forgetting the name). The student used Tor, but was quickly identified… because nobody else on the school network used Tor. (Make no mistake - I’m glad the student was caught - I’m just taking about how trying to increase your privacy can backfire.)




I'm not sure it would that's like going "he owns a car he could have used it to speed"


> I'm not sure it would that's like going "he owns a car he could have used it to speed"

I think these and other rebuttals fall into the category of completely logical arguments that should, but won't, convince a non-tech-savvy judge or jury.


True but we're talking about juries who are essentially random members of the public and are far from guaranteed to spot a fallacy or buy that it is a fallacy even when pointed out. I think a big difference to them could be how cars are socially normalised but tor is not. There's a good chunk of the population who would hear the car version and think "that's ridiculous, I drive a car!" but hear the tor version and think "that's a strange and alien thing to me, definitely something a suspicious person would do".


> True but we're talking about juries who are essentially random members of the public and are far from guaranteed to spot a fallacy or buy that it is a fallacy even when pointed out.

In the US, at least, juries are generally less sophisticated than a random sample of the general public; anyone who displays significant world knowledge or critical thinking during jury selection will be removed.


This is not actually true. Lawyers prefer jurors with critical thinking skills because it means they can be reasoned to; jurors without critical thinking skills are unpredictable wildcards.

Most jurors are gainfully employed in stable jobs, or were but are now retired, and care enough about their civic responsibilities not to try to get out of jury duty.


Lawyers for one side will have a preference for certain jurors; the other side's lawyers might like a few wild-cards (as to increase the chance of a hung jury).

Usually people "too knowledgeable" get bumped from the pool.


the other side's lawyers might like a few wild-cards (as to increase the chance of a hung jury).

No, never. The defense never wants a hung jury, because the prosecution will just get another chance to have another jury trial, with a new jury, but having learned from the failure of the first trial. The defense always wants finality.

Prosecutions don't want hung juries either, because there is always the risk that the judge will either dismiss the charges (if more than half of the jury leaned toward the defense) or pressure prosecutors to offer a better plea deal to avoid wasting time on a new trial.

Usually people "too knowledgeable" get bumped from the pool

If by that you mean people who know too much about the case already, then yes, because the defendant deserves a fair trial. If you mean people who are "too knowledgeable" in general, then no, unless it's clear that they're going to take this "knowledge" and rely on that "knowledge" instead of what is presented to them in court. Lawyers generally try to exclude tech bros, because they think they know everything about criminal law based on watching a few episodes of Law & Order and CSI.


Sounds like this wasn't a jury of their peers, then.




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