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1700s: Our whole global supply-chain is centered around trade winds. Don’t be so smug about high-tech fossil fuel vehicles.



Except steamships were demonstrably better than sail ships. EVs are worse than ICEs in every way except emissions.


> EVs are worse than ICEs in every way except emissions.

Let’s see. EVs generally have worse range and are substantially slower to charge while on a trip.

But they are quieter, simpler, more reliable, have generally superior performance (at least in categories where weight doesn’t matter), need substantially less maintenance, don’t stink (tires still stink, but the rest of the EV doesn’t), can recharge at home, and can do V2L/V2H/V2G [0].

[0] To be fair, V2L is a surprisingly rare feature. V2G seems likely to get stuck behind an embarrassing unwillingness on the part of anyone involved to use genuinely open standards or do decouple the implementation from various middlemen involved whose sole purpose is to intermediate between the vehicle and the utility. And V2H will share all of V2G’s problems plus the utilities’ general desire to discourage anything that reduces customer’s reliance on them and also the fact that there seems to be nothing remotely resembling a standard for microgrid interconnection devices / disconnects to enable islanding. As far as I can tell, most microgrid solutions are single-vendor, and most of them except the serious hardcore off grid gear are annoying tied to the cloud. We need a standard where a building can have a microgrid interconnection device, with multiple available suppliers, and where customers can install downstream equipment that interoperates with the device, sources from other brands. And this whole thing needs to work without explicit approval from the utility. (Requiring certification of each device makes sense. Requiring paperwork to be filed and permission obtained from the utility to install a V2H-capable EVSE or a solar inverter or a generator or whatever is broken. (Requiring utility permission to export is a different story, and utilities should be able to communicate, in real time, permissible export limits and the current and upcoming rate schedule. This should work without an internet connection.)

But this rant about V2H/V2G shouldn’t distract from the overall point: ICE cars aren’t doing V2G/V2G at all anytime soon.


Sail powered cargo ships were used until mid-20th century. So, for about 100 years there were both steam and sail powered ships in operation - roughly the amount of time we've had ICE cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_race


EVs are better in every way except range.


Hmm, what? Electric vehicles are part of that supply chain, deeply. They are high tech vehicles, not locally-sourced-and-produced gadgets.

It’s the pot calling the kettle black! If you need it spelled out.


The parent is making the analogy that back then supply chains were powered by wind. Change happens.

Electric trucks are becoming available.

Heavy transport trains are now electric:

https://thedriven.io/2022/01/19/mining-giant-bhp-orders-elec...

https://www.australianmining.com.au/fortescue-battery-electr...

https://www.railtech.com/rolling-stock/2022/03/04/australian...


Fair point. If things like EVs transition from the environmentally bad practices into sustainable ones then my point will be moot.

If you are to make a better world you have to build it out of the flawed one, right?




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