Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

> screw the guy who’s on call the night this system starts timing out

This was a very small billing practice, and that person was going to be me. I thought then, and still think now, that I made a reasonable trade off between what would be work at the time and potential future urgent work.

Additionally, this wasn't the sort of thing that would fail suddenly when you hit a critical point. Instead, running full text searches (a very small fraction of what the database was handling) would just slow down in a way that would have been very clear to the users.




Stealing time from future you also doesn’t pay off. Future you wants to take vacations and change jobs and have family events and sleep and stuff.

It doesn’t take much work to do the back of envelope math:

How long should these queries take? Less than two seconds?

How much slower do they get as record counts increase? 100ms every 250,000 records? Okay, so this will become intolerably slow when the record count hits about 5 million. When’s that going to happen? Never? Then we’re done here. Within a few months? Well let’s plan for that now. Within a few years? Maybe not within the lifetime of this system? Judgement call. Let’s put something in place that forces us to at least look back at this before it gets bad. Even if that’s just a google calendar reminder.


When building systems we are always making trade-offs between the present and the future. It's only "stealing time from future you" when you make bad trade-off; otherwise it's prioritization.

In this case, leaving out an index for full text search meant I didn't need to maintain the software for that index either, which would have been stand-alone at the time I was building this. Possibly this even was a choice that was, in expectation, time-saving for future me.


Feeling a little bit like you’re applying a motte and Bailey argument here.

The bold claim in the article was that there are many circumstances where adding an index isn’t necessary. Diverse examples were given. These included a MySQL database, where adding an index is no additional maintenance overhead whatsoever (FULLTEXT idx in the table DDL). The implication was that there are many circumstances that affect many people where even cheap and easy to implement indexes were not needed.

Now when challenged you’re retreating to the more defensible position that in the case where you’re querying an ad hoc data structure where you would have to implement your own index that that is often a bad trade off. Or maybe it was a bad tradeoff because this was a small app you were building that you knew you would be the long term maintainer for.

But that’s not what I’m talking about is it, and I don't know all the specific circumstances of your single specific project where this was the right choice, so we’re not going to get anywhere.


> These included a MySQL database, where adding an index is no additional maintenance overhead whatsoever (FULLTEXT idx in the table DDL)

MySQL didn't add support for FULLTEXT until v5.6, released 2013-02, a few years after I was working on this. At the time if I had wanted a full text search index it would have needed to be an additional service.


Looking now (no longer on my phone) it's a bit more complex than that: while MySQL has supported FULLTEXT indexes since 3.23.23 (2000-09-01) [1] if you wanted to use InnoDB (and you probably did -- it was much better than MyISAM [2]) you initially couldn't use FULLTEXT. That was added in v5.6 [3], and at the time I was developing this software the standard option was to set up Sphinx.

I've edited the post to add some of this history, so future readers understand this was about whether to add a dependency on an external indexing service.

[1] http://dev.cs.ovgu.de/db/mysql/News-3.23.x.html ("Full-text search via the MATCH() function and FULLTEXT index type (for MyISAM files). This makes FULLTEXT a reserved word.")

[2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7492771/should-i-use-myi...

[3] https://downloads.mysql.com/docs/mysql-5.6-relnotes-en.pdf ("MySQL now supports FULLTEXT indexes for InnoDB tables.")


Most systems get scrapped and never go to production. Early stage is validation and search for a useful concept. It often pays off very well to steal time from the future.




Consider applying for YC's W25 batch! Applications are open till Nov 12.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: