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I've been flying internationally 10-15 times a year for ~10 years. Different routes and destinations each time. I've spent a lot of time searching for hacks like this that let me save a few bucks on flight tickets. Sometimes it works. Sometimes you find that a flight is cheaper depending on which country's website or currency you use to book. Flight tickets are priced dynamically using a variety of factors to determine the price. By manipulating those factors you can get different prices. However, the factors that are used to determine price are generally not publicized and change frequently, so there is no predictable rule.

In the end, I've realized that my time is better spent not chasing these elusive deals. I can spend all day searching for the cheapest flight somewhere, or I can just book the cheapest thing on Kiwi or SkyScanner in 10 minutes and spend the rest of my day writing code for a project that is paying me far more money than I would have saved searching for flight deals.

The best hacks to save money on plane tickets: travel carry-on luggage only, fly economy, and book with a credit card that provides travel insurance and accumulates rewards. Chase Sapphire cards are pretty much the standard for travelers.




Another hack is timing. Often I've taken a day off on either Friday or Monday when I'm travelling over the weekend -- the difference in cost can be as much as a day's wage.


This is a lovely benefit of remote working for me - any time I travel, I can shift the days around to significantly save on flight costs, but without losing the day's wage. I can just work from wherever I am without taking any time off.

Usually saves at least €100 each way, every time I travel, and occasionally much more. And as a bonus, it's quite nice to spend a day working from a coworking space in a random city elsewhere and see a little of the local working lifestyle.

A coworking space for a single day in a European city is normally €20 or so, but many places offer free 1 day trials too, and there's also 'work from anywhere' portable coworking subscriptions and 'use any of our locations' benefits from multi-city coworking chains, if you/your company already pay for coworking elsewhere.


I prefer to work in coffee shops. A €2 coffee every two hours is cheap and I'm gonna buy it anyway.


Where are you getting €2 coffee? I live in a small town (10k pop) in the Netherlands and the cheapest coffee I can buy is €2,20. In the city it’s easily double that in most places.


What's the advantage of a coworking space over a library?


Not the op - but I usually feel happier leaving my laptop and stuff when i go grab a coffee/lunch/toilet break in a co-working space, over a public library.

I LOVE public libraries, but not always set up for working comfortably, especially if I need to take a call, or want to do some whiteboarding.

And lastly, paying for something sometimes makes my appreciate it more - I've paid for this space so I WILL WORK.


Be wary of coworking spaces. I had a brand new MacBook stolen from a private office space I was using at Spaces San Jose. Not only were they unhelpful to the point of being combative, but one of the people in an adjacent office said it happens all the time and carry their laptop to lunch with them.

Anecdotal for sure, but it changed the way I look at coworking spaces.


Man that is rubbish sorry to hear that. I don't use coworker spaces as much now as I used to, will bare in mind.


I do this, it’s generally a great option. Decent internet and quiet - I’m blessed to have few calls, so that’s all I need. Parking is usually easy and it’s not hard to find a chair+desk+power in the same place. (Pro tip - hotel lobbies can be good too, every hotel has a nice seating area that’s unused outside of 6-9am)

Lately though I’ve noticed a trend with libraries becoming… scarier? Even in seemingly wealthy, clean, safe areas, there’s a ~20yo pacing around very… agitated? Drugs, lack of drugs, bad day perhaps - not sure - not my specialty. My conscious brain was saying “it’s fine, you’re in a well-lit public area”

My less conscious brain eventually forced me to move to a spot against a wall, where everything was happening in at-least-peripheral vision.


It keeps techies out of comfy libraries.


I like both, but in my experience things like snacks, drinks, whiteboarding, and video calls are easier to pull off in a coworking space. Many times in libraries these are difficult, or at least higher friction


Work document privacy for NDA stuff and capability of doing meetings?


Yep. If you can leave and come back mid-week it's a great way to save money. And now that long haul flights also have wifi, I can often catch up with work both ways.


Does this actually work in your experience? IME whenever I tried this, I spent more kn the extra day’s accommodation that I saved on the plane ticket…


I didn't have to get accommodation, so you're right. If it's just a work trip it may not be worth it.


The booking time as well. Tuesday morning is usually best, Friday night worst from my experience.


Chase Sapphire travel insurance is limited only to evacuation and transport anywhere >100km from home state.


Yup, I have separate travel insurance from a reputable domestic insuracne company that I trust. My credit card also has a travel insurance from a multinational insurance company that I had never heard of before. The bank didn't even bother sending me the insurance policy terms when issuing the card. I would never dare depend on the credit card's travel insurance. Because travel insurance is one of those things that you don't really think about until the moment you need it. And that's usually also the worst possible time to discover that you've been sold snake oil..


Agreed that travel insurance is a must. It is not that expensive.

Be aware of the limitations though. For example, you rent a scooter in Vietnam. Well, you're not covered in an accident because you are only covered if you have a license. The only way to get a license is to live in Vietnam and they don't recognize a US IDP.


Can you recommend a company? And isn’t the work insurance covering you while traveling internationally?


Do you recommend Kiwi/SkyScanner for their customer support (changing tickets, etc...) or are those just names you sometimes use? I also fly a few times a year and at this point I just want excellent customer service and don't worry about saving a few bucks but haven't found a travel agent that meets my needs. Chase Ultimate Rewards just kind of meh. I do know the value of booking directly with the airline but sometimes the price difference truly is outrageous (double even).


Not OP but Skyscanner just aggregates different sellers and they don’t deal with tickets themselves. It ultimately depends on the seller you choose to buy the ticket from. In my experience as an European, even the crappiest ones were able to help but then if the difference is small it’s better to buy from the company operating the flight as you can then manage the flight stuff from their website instead.


Yeah that's my experience too - the airline itself is ideal because they can also help with upgrades, rebooking more easily without the encumbrance of a different vendor. Flying is still such a pita.


Honestly, I've given up on expecting any kind of customer support from any travel agent at all, even buying tickets directly from the airlines. Customer service in 2023 is a shitshow.


Protip: if customer service phone lines are busy due to some stuff going on, call the English line of some smaller country.


I found it often works with https://ctrip.com (Chinese airline booking service).


Why book through Kiwi or Skyscanner if booking through Chase earns triple rewards points.


Chase (and AmEx) travel sucks to deal with if you have an issue with your flight. Much better to book direct so you can deal with the airlines directly even at the cost of losing 3x. Same deal with points, much better spent by transferring out to an airline or their partner vs using them for 1cpp on one of the cards OTAs.


100% this. I book a decent amount of my leisure flights on Sapphire points only. Rebooking is trivial if you book directly with an airline, you can often do it within the app for that airline itself. Rebooking with Chase is often a 30-60 minute ordeal that can only be done over the phone involving 2-3 transfers. Often this is not even something that is your fault - the airline can rug pull the flight by changing the time or cancelling it, forcing you to undergo this ritual.


The funny (unfortunate) thing is that this used to be the opposite - years ago, Chase's in-house travel service was as close as you'd get to a white glove phone support experience in this day and age.

Then they outsourced it to Expedia, and the hold times went up and the efficiency and sanity of the whole process of dealing with any minor adjustment to your flight or travel plans degraded precipitously.

It seems like in 2021, they bought the company that was providing the backing technology for the in-house version of the service and have ditched Expedia again, so maybe this has gotten better since my last stint of big international travel?


For hotels they still outsource to Expedia and the service is abysmal if you have any problems.


If there is a security issue with the airline better that the intermediary has your payment information rather than the airline. When Cathay Pacific got hacked I was glad I had booked with (RIP) Vayama. Of course if this is an airline like Thai Airways that has you present the payment card at check in this might be pointless (and of course Apple Pay has obviated it too)


Can one transfer the points immediately before booking or is that process too slow. This way one could take adventange of fact that reward points do not expire.


Depends on the partner you are transferring to. Some are instant, like Delta, Southwest and United. Some can take a few business days like ANA. Always Google before transferring to determine actual average transfer time and never prospectively transfer points, always transfer with something in mind. Points could be devalued at any time without warning or expire.


Because the rewards points can only be redeemed for flights that are priced 3x as much as the kiwi flights. I've done the math many times, and it never comes out ahead. Just go for the flights with the cheapest price.


Not true from what I've seen. Prices can be the same. Perhaps it depends on what international flights one is after.

I do understand the strategy of just going after the cheapest flights and I know younger people who swear by it. But these are often the same people who will not pay annual fees for credits cards, so they have never tried these rewards programs.

Also, if a customer has accumulated a large quantity of points, then she may not want to use the points on the "cheapest" options. She might want to choose more expensive ones since she is using points.


[flagged]


I appreciate your concern about CO2 emissions and the effort you're making to reduce your own carbon footprint. It's important to be conscious of our impact on the environment. I wanted to share some of the ways I also work to reduce my carbon emissions and help address climate change.

While it's true that I have taken a number of international flights over the past decade, I am very conscious of my carbon footprint in other areas of my life. For example, I've made the choice not to have children, I don't own a car and I live a minimalist lifestyle not buying unnecessary consumer goods. These decisions significantly reduce my overall emissions.

In terms of air travel, it's worth noting that commercial flights account for about 2-3% of global carbon emissions. When we consider the per-person emissions on a commercial flight, it is generally lower than that of other forms of transportation like cars, especially when flights are near capacity.

That said, I completely understand the concern around flying, which is why I purchase carbon offsets for all my flights. This helps to balance out the emissions created by my air travel. Additionally, my professional career is dedicated to working on climate science and finding innovative technical solutions to climate change. In this way, I am actively contributing to the global effort to mitigate the impacts of climate change.

It's important to remember that while individual actions do matter, the largest contributors to climate change are industrial emissions and companies that prioritize profit over the environment. By focusing on these larger culprits and supporting policies and initiatives that hold them accountable, we can create a more significant impact on reducing emissions.


This is an impressively thorough and considered response.


Not to accuse anyone, but it's written in the style of ChatGPT.


Yeah, that's what I thought of immediately as well. I think it was the first two paragraphs that did it.


I'm getting a strong impression it was written by GPT

Seems overly long/verbose/conscientious for a human


I think the current LLM and GPT overdose has really affected the quality of discussions here. Write a long and thoughtful response and be immediately accused of being a GPT! What is happening to this forum!

I mean how lazy these commenters have to be that their only complaint is "possibly written by GPT"?! Is there something wrong or incorrect in the comment? If yes, then say that! Is there something unclear? Say thta! Is there something insightful to add to the comment? If yes, then say that!


I can assure you that I am a very conscientious human and that this was a genuine response.


Honest question: Was ChatGPT used to edit the response here? I do not doubt that the response represents your opinion.


It’s not verbose, it just follows the same best practice. State premise, expand for a bit, restate premise. ChatGPT leans heavily on that style, mostly because people do.


Where do you buy carbon offsets?

I don't fly nearly as much as you but I would like to buy offsets when I do fly (and in general.)


It varies. A lot of airlines offer carbon offsets directly as an option when you buy your ticket. Also, sometimes I buy mine in bulk and not per-flight. Here's a good overview of buying carbon offsets for flights: https://thepointsguy.com/guide/everything-you-need-to-know-c...


Thanks, I'll read it.

I saw that Airlines offer carbon offsets but I'm not sure I trust them.


I use Wren (YC S19) which is a monthly subscription (pay what you want) for projects like biochar, tree planing, and refrigerant destruction: https://www.wren.co/projects


And sadly industry dwarfs the CO2 emissions of this frequent flyer (and the rest of us personally). While it's admirable to work on ways of ways to reduce your personal footprint (especially as a way to communicate the problem to others) - actually impacting CO2 levels needs to come from broad regulation. The numbers are just too large and skewed.


Industry provides valuable products for billions of people. Hundreds of reckless flights that could be zoom meetings benefit no one.


What makes you think these flights could be replaced by zoom meetings. Why not assume that GP has spent lots of time carefully considering if they must travel or could replace.

Or maybe there are 500 zoom calls and 150 flights.

Assuming that GP is competent and smart, rather than that we are smart and they are stupid is more likely to be accurate. I don’t assume my situation is the same as others as this is unlikely to be true.


Industry also fills the oceans with plastics ... And makes climate change happen

(Not saying flying a lot is good)


What was the market for zoom meetings 5-10 years ago?


> Industry provides valuable products for billions of people.

Yes, airplanes and jet fuel for example.

> Hundreds of reckless flights that could be zoom meetings benefit no one.

Sounds like they were recreational. Or is happiness not permitted either? I'd better not drive 10 minutes down to the beach to walk my dog tomorrow in case the carbon police catch me, lol. For that matter I'll bet having a dog in the first place makes me a greenhouse nazi because he doesn't much like eating bugs.


A throwaway account for this type of comment doesn't exactly give your words much gravitas.


Good argument.


>Or is happiness not permitted either?

Excessive? Better no.

>I'd better not drive 10 minutes down to the beach to walk my dog tomorrow in case the carbon police catch me, lol.

"drive to walk" is this even real?


> Excessive? Better no.

Excessive according to your judgement?

> "drive to walk" is this even real?

Absolutely carbon-haram? Driving only permitted for essential business reasons?


But it is not at all admirable to post passive-aggressive comments like they did here.


It's a fair comment. I don't think it was passive aggressive. It was just straightforward.


If you're worried about climate change, you should not spend your time and resources trying to reduce your own CO2 emissions, but instead, supporting and promoting regulations that force people like yosito to not being able to travel that much, so they will also forcibly start to reduce their footprint.


I get what you're saying about limiting air travel, but let's look at the bigger picture.

Commercial flights make up around 2% of global carbon emissions, so forcing people like me not to travel is not going to make a significant dent in climate change. Focusing on industries and companies that are responsible for the bulk of emissions might be a better way to go.

Rather than trying to control individuals, we need to hold industries and corporations accountable. Pushing for policies that target high-emitting sectors like energy, transportation, and agriculture can create real change. By tackling the main culprits, we have a better shot at making a difference.

Cheers!


Absolutely, I agree. And while we were talking about commercial flights, it's true that it's only a small part of the problem. But my message was that I think there is no point in trying to cut down your emissions individually while no one else does. So I think it's either we put limits (both for individuals but also and specially for industries and corps) or we forget about it and just keep having fun until we no longer can.

Cheers!


I don't think there's a lot of value in putting limits on individuals. That's not an effective way to change the problem at scale. But FWIW, the average American can an annual carbon footprint of 16-17 metric tons of CO2. Here's some back of the napkin math estimating my annual carbon footprint:

750 kg (home energy) + 50 kg (public transportation) + 3,000 kg (flights) + 2,000 kg (diet) + 500 kg (shopping and waste) = 6.3 metric tons of CO2 per year, not bad for someone from a developed country.


That's interesting, now I wonder what the average American does to have a footprint of 16t, as they don't take that number of flights yearly.


I think this is a very myopic view. Perhaps OP has a specialist expertise making the travel absolutely necessary?

Focus on improving, not limiting. Invest in battery technology, throw billions at it and we will have carbon free air travel


Batteries are not really considered at realistic option for airplanes, AFAIK. The best hope is that they can use synthetic fuel, at a cost of, say, x7 the current price. Regulation could definitely help make that happen -- and those who fly a lot should have to pay for the real price of their transport.


> those who fly a lot should have to pay for the real price of their transport

Carbon offsets for a transatlantic flight cost about $15-30. Challenge accepted.


We all know how much of a scam carbon offsets are atm. Realistically I think it will be at least twice that amount just for carbon taxes, never mind the additional fuel price.


According to whom. There are multiple competing startups developing electric airplanes for regional commercial travel.


> at a cost of, say, x7 the current price

Where does that estimate come from?


I totally disagree. Change needs to begin with yourself.


Don’t take CO2 behavior instruction from people who have children.

I can fly international 365 days a year for decades. But my children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will have 0 carbon footprint because they’ll never exist.

Conversely, eat bugs and recycle coke cans if you want, but that’s a fraction of a fraction of a drop in the bucket if you’ve had even one kid.


Not having children isn't going to solve the climate crisis because the effect are at a very long term. Children have a very small carbon footprint, they only have a significant footprint when they're adults so we're talking 20 years from now.

We have to reduce emissions right now, not at your inexisting great-grandchildren generation.


> Children have a very small carbon footprint, they only have a significant footprint when they're adults so we're talking 20 years from now.

This is the same reason I don’t save any money for retirement. Somebody will surely have figured things out by the time for me to stop working! I can do what I want with no consequences.


So who's going to solve tomorrow's climate problems? A well-raised kid is one of the better ways to improve the future.

Also, the way the human brain's reward system works, lots of people will say: I have no kids, now I can take an extra far-away holiday.


> So who's going to solve tomorrow's climate problems?

All the kids that are being born anyway.

But it's hypocritical to both have a kid and then malign me for using 1 millionth of the CO2 the decision to have a kid results in.


Yes, but those kids are now more likely to be raised by people who are not aware of the problems, or deny them. "Well-raised" is a key word in my previous comment.

While I think we need to find a way to limit the number of humans and think it's a perfectly fine decision for people to not have children, I will continue to criticize anyone who uses CO2 excessively whether they have children or not.


"Having kids is bad" makes sense as a rule of we assume it kids will have the same footprint as us. But that sounds like another way to admit defeat.

I don't have kids. I'm in my thirties. I really struggle with this idea. I fear that this notion is part of why I will run out the clock on my window to get kids.

All I see is finger pointing when everyone needs to rise to the occasion. I'm falling in that trap myself.


Innovation isn’t entirely random. It’s like like all children have an equal probability of doing something great and productive.

Taking responsibility for climate change solution and raising smart and productive kids is probably the single most positive thing one can do.


We as a society need people who will provide us with goods and services to as we grow too old to work. Those people are children today.

I will feel bad about the CO2 contributions of my children the day you feel bad about needing goods and services from them.


I don't understand this argument. Children are individuals as well that would have their own carbon budget. Not to mention the threat of demographic collapse is serious among almost every developed country


Yeah the argument may or may not make sense depending on how you count and it's really dependent on which assumptions you pick.


Then your genetic and cultural lines will be replaced in society by those that are more disposed to reproducing.


Grandchildren and great-grandchildren don't factor in, we'll be close to carbon neutral by then anyway.


Then it’s time to move onto other pressing environmental issues, like recycling all the electric car batteries, and the ethics of lithium and rare Earth mineral mining.

There will always be something less than ideal.


In addition to being toxic and irrelevant to the parent comments (who mentioned kids?), This argument is a red herring.

Of course if everyone dies, we mitigate anthropogenic climate change, but that doesn't really further our analysis of the issue. There is nothing inherent in children that uses carbon, it is human behavior in the context of petro-capitalism that uses carbon. If I have thirteen kids and they live on a farm cooperative, I'll be responsible for less carbon than the parent commenter.


Labeling a comment “Toxic” is a good way to shut down interesting discussion.

The parent said:

> [international flights taken often] completely dwarfs any [CO2] savings I could reasonably expect to make.

What dwarfs CO2 savings isn’t so much an individual’s international flights, it’s an individual creating more individuals that create more individuals.

Your thirteen kids on a farm cooperative are likely to have and eat cows, which is plenty of tonnes of methane. Not to mention the number of children that 13 couples will produce afterward.

My 0 kids will require 0 cows and 0 methane.

Having children is important for the propagation of the human race and I want our race to be propagated.

But it makes no sense to lecture somebody about their greenhouse gas emissions while taking action that results in a thousand or a million more greenhouse gas.

If you believe having children is a net positive, go for it. I’m not lecturing you to avoid it.


> Labeling a comment “Toxic” is a good way to shut down interesting discussion.

That's certainly your opinion. My opinion is that this thread of analysis (a) is not interesting; (b) tends to propagate harm.

I think the discussion is not interesting because it lacks intellectual rigor. I mentioned that the subject of having kids is an irrelevant red herring. I think we can call your thesis a form of "whataboutism." You actually double down on this in your response. Kids on a farm? Whatabout cows? (It's a vegetable farm. Try again, I guess.) Let me also add that there is no logical limit to your analysis. Who is responsible for your carbon use? You or your parents? Is this toxic comment on the internet something I should address with you or your grandmother?

The harm-causing part is more important. You are saying--here and in siblings--that "other people" can/should have children and that society will be sustained by babies who are "born anyway," but that people who procreate have lost the moral agency to participate as your equals in the climate discussion.

This is toxic (harm-propagating) because it treats biological procreation as a distasteful externality. Procreation is not an external process when we are considering anthropogenic climate change. Worse, you are drawing an artificial line to separate people who can have valid policy opinions on climate change from those (parents) who can't. Ironically, this is the same thing that you accused me of doing when you objected to my use of the word "toxic."


"You shouldn't be allowed to walk around as a tourist in this archaeological site because you're trampling it"

"Why are you telling me where I can't go while blowing up large chunks of it with dynamite?"

"That's whataboutism. Besides maybe my dynamite isn't causing any damage, and I'm still right that you're trampling it."


How long term do you think this strategy is for the human kind?

Does it span more than one generation?


IMHO a voluntary reduction in human population by a few billion through reduced birth is a perfectly viable, sustainable long-term strategy; all the drawbacks and criticisms appear when someone wants to encourage that with various means (i.e. not fully voluntarily) or when it's posed as some solution to things which need a faster reduction than possible this way, e.g. climate change won't be prevented even if we went totally zero-birth for a decade but the current population kept the current emission rates.


It doesn't even have to be voluntarily in the sense of "making a decision to". More like voluntary in the sense of "have no specific need to".

In the most developed countries, children are now more of a burden than a gain, which is why women are having fewer of them every generation.

Not only because they're expensive, but because they are often born unhealthy (physically, mentally, or both) and are a large, often unrecoverable blow to most careers.

Since we don't need children to work on the farm or to let us move in with them when we're old (er, less than previous generations, anyway), it becomes purely a "nice-to-have" decision.

And then if somebody does voluntarily have children, they don't have much of a leg to stand on when lecturing others about their impact on climate change.


I get your point and am on neither side of the fence here, since I do not think, we should rely on individual action at all.

I just want to add to the conversation, that somehow your reasoning strikes me as a bit selfish. It is of course true, what you are writing. Still reading it, makes me sad. I am missing some higher meaning. Who cares about a career in the end? A career in our system is just a story of someone, who exceeded at providing value. But for whom, if you do not have kids?

I am missing a bit of Kant in there. A little bit of "You get one (life), you give one back." We (including you) just cannot all do it like that, if we do not want to end our lives rather uncomfortably. So again something about ultimate maximes and what they should be.


What's selfish about not having children? To whom or to what do I owe bringing a child into the world?

It's more likely the opposite: a lot of people would agree that their parents' decision to have children, particularly at a time when they couldn't afford them or lacked the mental strength to care for them and raise them in psychological safety, was selfish.


Accidents happen, and now with Roe V Wade repeal even more will.

Not everyone gets to make the conscious choice.

Sounds more like you've given up and are using it as the moral high ground.

To turn your earlier phrase- 'Sorry, I don't take advice from people who are removed from the human race.'

Sounds stupid, because it is.

You do what you can, I will do what I can. But don't think for a second you are better than anyone else over a single choice you made.


You have misunderstood: I'm not suggesting childfree people are better than people who have children.

I'm suggesting childfree people have a negligible impact on climate change compared to people who have children.

You can bring "moral high ground" into it wherever it seems applicable, but I have not done that. I've said only that it's hypocritical to criticize a person for their climate impact while simultaneously making a thousand or a million times more of a climate impact.


I get where you are coming from, I read all your comments here.

You are making an assumption that children just are a net negative.

As others have mentioned the carbon footprint of a child is miniscule compared to an adult,

They are not driving, flying, owning homes, etc for a while, and many never will.

One of those children could very well be the solution to that, and many other problems.

As for moral high ground you insist that you are better for having made the choice not to have children, as you see their opinions as less than and not worth listening to, as they have had children.


> What's selfish about not having children? To whom or to what do I owe bringing a child into the world?

Since life can just be given to the next generation and you have already gotten yours, it would be logical to return the favor to the next person and give a new life.

I did not say, that it actually is selfish. Maybe it is not. It just came off a bit like that to me, as I read your comments.

> It's more likely the opposite: a lot of people would agree that their parents' decision to have children, particularly at a time when they couldn't afford them or lacked the mental strength to care for them and raise them in psychological safety, was selfish.

Sure. Although most people would surely still choose to live.


To my children, who will labour to sustain you, too, in your late life.


I don't owe having children to your children, or to you.

You can have children if you want, but I'm not requiring that of you.

If your children take care of me late in life, it's because they're exchanging their work for money. And the reason they're obligated to exchange their work for money is because that's the economic system into which their parents decided to bring them.


You do not owe anything to anyone here. You just cannot construct a moral high ground based on your childlessness.

It is not moral to not have children. Paraphrasing Kant: An action is moral, if the state improves when everyone does it.

You cannot recommend everyone to not have children, since you depend on them. So why bring it up as an argument in a thread about climate change in the first place?

The argument is hypocritical. It just does not make much sense.

Do you see it as an optimization problem, where others have exactly enough children to care for you at old age, but so few that the climate suffers as little as possible? If so, you are still relying on the children and do not gain any more imaginary rights to pollute than those parents.


It is absolutely incredible that your sensible comment gets down voted, but it says a lot about the diseased state of mind of some of the people commenting and voting here.

The "career" is a great lie and joke. Imagine choosing to exterminate your heritage in order to please short term goals of politicians or company owners who at best see the career worker as a cost center on a spread sheet.


You were doing so fine until the last sentence.


Long term the population is flatlining and dropping and the price of renewable energy with it.

But even if it doesn't and even if we're forced to make hard choices, the hard choice won't be "should I skip my vacation flight?", it'll be "should I skip raising a CO2 machine?".


For every child you don't have I'm going to have two.


[flagged]


Not having children is certainly not the ultimate sacrifice. That seems like a really silly sentiment.

I think suicide would be the ultimate sacrifice, although stupid for climate change. Ultimate because it’s the last act and ultimate because it’s everything that can be spent.

As far as difficulty, devoting one’s life to improving the environment is a bigger sacrifice than childlessness.

And raising positive children is much harder and more of a sacrifice than choosing not to have children. As far as difficulty, it’s like choosing to go to the gym two hours every day vs not.


Wether or not you consider it a sacrifice is really a question of frame of reference. I don't think there's any objective truth in it being a sacrifice or not.

However, given that the person I responded to want to have kids, I assumed that having kids was important to them.

And given that getting kids is basically something that you devote the rest of your life to it comes in the ball park of "as important to you as your life" if you choose to have them.

So to them, it ought to be an ultimate sacrifice.


Good point, sacrifice certainly has some subjectivity to it. If someone uses the term “ultimate sacrifice” then they are ranking sacrifices and have some rationale.

I don’t think there’s an objective arbiter, but for terms of communication there is some need for subjective consensus. I might view chewing sugarless gum as the “ultimate sacrifice” but many others will not.

I don’t think that choosing not to have kids is the ultimate or greatest sacrifice and I gave some of my reasoning. Perhaps if someone thinks kids are the sole purpose in life then giving that up would the ultimate, but I don’t know if that’s very common. And if so, would be quite sad as such a sacrifice for the sake of climate change would be so inconsequential and a waste (like ending one’s own life to prevent emitting carbon from breathing).


I agree with you it was needlessly rude and combative to say. Although I don't feel like I'm making a sacrifice by not having kids and I'm certainly not doing it to benefit that person's kids.

I just don't need or want any.

I only pull the "no kids" card when somebody who does have kids starts complaining about my greenhouse gas unit count.


Who said they are doing the ultimate sacrifice? What a weird comment.


For someone who wants to have kids it ought to be an extreme sacrifice since they will change most aspects of your life and you will need to spend so much time on them.

For someone who don't it's not a sacrifice. But the person I responded to obviously wants children. So for them it would be an extreme sacrifice to not.


Not having children is not a sacrifice


It may be for some people that make that choice. This whole thread reeks of people that cannot empathize with a perspective not their own.


How is intentionally choosing to not have children a sacrifice if you live in a western country? We're at a point where these countries need more people, not less, to have children. Having and raising a child is a difficult thing to do


There are many people who really, truly want children, who would be sad not to have them, but feel it is morally questionable-to-wrong (rightly or wrongly) to bring more people into what they view as a failing world. That is a sacrifice, whether you perceive it as such. It is people making an eventually irreversible decision to not live the life they want to live.

And I disagree with the idea that we need people. The capitalistic society we built needs more people, the planet most certainly does not. I do not think the needs of humanity are de facto more important than the health of the global ecosystem.


It isn't if you don't want them. But the person I responded to seem to want it.


> It feels so utterly helpless and pointless working on mitigating my own CO2 emissions when I learn there are people like you taking 100-150 international flights in 10 years. That completely dwarfs any savings I could reasonably expect to make.

This is an oddly off-topic and mean-spirited comment!

Looking at the comment thread you can see how this comment suddenly changed the course of the discussion to something totally unrelated to this post. This is one of those things that can create deeply nested comment threads on an unrelated topic just because of the nature of the comment and how it can trigger people to get involved in an off-topic debate.


You have your heart in the right place.

It's also so much more complicated. For instance I took 2 flights last year, but ordered hundreds of goods, all coming from a lot of places around the world, including some by plane that were needed within days.

Same for food, same for so many other daily actions that have impact beyond my immediate sphere and I have no idea how or why.

People ought to make an effort to not go overboard, but the generic "the gov should deal with balancing it" is I think a pretty valid answer. Individuals trying to manage their own CO2 is just impossible when we have no idea what each corporations involved are doing behind on their side.


Right. The whole "carbon footprint" idea was invented by big oil to shift the blame on consumers.


Putting a proper cost on carbon would go a long way


This is the reality of air travel, 90% of the flights (thus the CO2 emissions) are made by a handful of frequent travellers. Moreover those are very unlikely to be willing to cut on air travel for CO2 emission reasons.

So you shouldn't feel bad for your occasional air travel.


> So you shouldn't feel bad for your occasional air travel.

I don't understand the implied ethical rule behind this mentality. CO2 emissions are always a problem and to be avoided. What am I missing?


CO2 emissions are going to happen, we need to reduce them in a meaningful way. We do that by looking at the breakdown of emissions.

The biggest sector is enery use in the industry (24%), next is buildings, mostly heating (17.5), then transport (16%). Most of the transport emissions is road transport (cars and trucks) and air travel is only 2% of the overall emissions.

https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

And again, air travel is mostly frequent travelers who have no intention to change their habit. That means that as an occasional air traveler, if it makes you happy to visit a faraway country every few years, you should definitely not feel bad about it. Because even if all occasional travelers were to stop flying, it wouldn't make any significant difference.


The biggest change we can make to reduce air emissions is replacing short flights with high-speed rail. There are 400 flights a day between DC and NYC. It should be zero.


> CO2 emissions are always a problem and to be avoided.

Not possible without everyone simply deciding to not have kids.


We were talking about flights?


I thought you said CO2 was always a problem? Not just for flights.


You have been brainwashed into lowering your standard of life. You shouldn't be upset at others because of that - instead, work on yourself.


> You have been brainwashed into lowering your standard of life

Destroying the planet is indeed lowering not only your standard of life, but everyone’s. Remember there’s no planet B.


Relax, the planet can't be destroyed by climate change. Hyperbole are not useful if we want to have a reasonable debate.


That’s nitpicking; writing «the planet» for «the world we live in» is an extremely common metonymy.


I can assure you i have not lowered my standard of life by not cramming myself into an economy seat for an international flight 10-15 times a year.


Remember oil companies came up with the concept of a carbon footprint

They want you focused inwards


Maybe the commenter does not share the opinion that climate change should be addressed by reducing emissions.

I definitely understand your sentiment. It is hard to restrain oneself of a good for some cause to see other people using it.

In this case it might be productive to adapt a new view that better suits reality and increases congruence between ideas about the world and imperics.


> does not share the opinion that climate change should be addressed by reducing emissions.

The opinion that it should be addressed or not? Because there's no feasible route to addressing it that doesn't involve reducing fossil emissions.


It's the opposite IMHO. Reducing emissions directly will never work because of the Jevons Paradox[0] (at least for CO2 - crazy-high-CO2-equivalent-pollutants are something else).

The only thing that matters is preventing extraction of fossil fuels in the first place.

That's why the fossil fuel industry promoted the idea of "carbon footprints", and why Adtech make their datacenters renewable - greenwashing their business that makes money selling the whole economy of fossil-fuel derived stuff, including flights and the fossil fuel industry's actual propaganda[1][2].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

[1] https://www.clientearth.org/projects/the-greenwashing-files/

[2] https://stopfundingheat.info/greenwash-dog/


Why on earth would the Jevon paradox apply to CO2, an output of industrial processes which can be disposed of for free, not an input?


You reduce your travel, presumably for the purpose of reducing jet fuel usage. A few things can happen. 1) Someone else buys the plane ticket anyway, due to availability or reduced ticket price, jet fuel usage remains the same. 2) The plane ride got cancelled due to low number of passengers, replaced with another plane ride, total fuel used by airline remains the same. 3) Jet fuel gets cheaper or more available, so the fuel you thought you saved gets bought for another use, total fuel use remains the same.


The opinion that personal voluntary reduction of emissions won't cut it. We need more drastic measures like carbon taxes.


> that doesn't involve reducing fossil emissions.

You can fly an airplane on non-fossil fuels.

As the original commenter also said: He'd rather focus on earning money than saving a bit. Maybe that opinion translates to the climate debate?

Maybe he wants to produce large amounts of energy with limited externalities instead of saving a bit.


>You can fly an airplane on non-fossil fuels.

Not at the scale of commercial airlines though and certainly not (yet) as cheaply.


Indifferent to how practical you might think it is, one can still hold the view that it is more feasible to combat climate change that way.

Also, it is interesting to see, that you think it is more practical to eliminate air travel, than to employ new techniques to allow air travel while being climate neutral.


At what cost to others?

The climate morality debate is complicated because it's all statistical. "Drown Bangladesh and Florida" is obviously a wrong outcome, but there's no one individual wrong action that leads there. You could come up with an approximation like "each gallon of jet fuel consumed raises the sea level by one femtometre"; each action is individually trivial, but combined they are not trivial.


The statistical part is the easy part. You can handle the femtometres by estimating how much it'll cost to mitigate the damage, and taxing jet fuel per gallon in proportion (among with other CO₂ emitters). Put tax money to mitigation, and you'll even get a negative feedback loop that'll settle something reasonable.

No, the hard part is that we just can't do the obvious, because there is no one global government that could mandate it. Instead, everyone at every level - individual, corporate, governmental - is better off short-term by not doing any climate mitigation, because those who do will lose business to those who don't.


> At what cost to others? ...

I think nobody disagrees. Your entire comment is rhetoric handcuffing. Nobody proposed to let "Bangladesh and Florida drown".

We are discussing ways to avoid current path of climate change which can involve other means than reducing mobility.

Unfortunately a lot of people are set on an extremely narrow path, which is a moral issue. How are you going to explain to third world countries that you do not think they have the right to prosper like the US did?

In the end, it is morally wrong to be single minded on the solution to the issues. We need to consider other means. Let the means compete and pick the best way.


You're talking about finding a different way to reduce emissions, it is still reducing emissions.


Synthetic fuels do not reduce emissions. The emissions are just not from fossil fuels.

Or am I missing something?


I put "fossil emissions" in my original comment for a reason; things which are made from atmospheric CO2 and not fossil carbon, but then release CO2 again when used, are "net zero" and should not be counted unless you want to confuse people.


The normal person add fuel to their car and expects emission from the car.

The discourse on qualifying different forms of fuels is way more confusing.

It is also dangerous. If we allow marketing of "net-zero" fuels, fossil fuel companies will offset their fuel with CO2 certificates.


There are fuels that consume CO2 from the air during production and then burn it during usage (net being close to zero depending on the energy used to generate it).


> Maybe the commenter does not share the opinion that climate change should be addressed by reducing emissions.

There really isn't any other way to address climate change than by reducing emissions.


There is a plethora of alternatives. Synthetic fuels and nuclear energy are well established. bio-fuels is another alternative (though it might not scale).


> Synthetic fuels and nuclear energy are well established.

Yes, and they reduce CO2 emissions.


How?

A kg of fuel should have roughly the same CO2 emission regardless of how it is produced?

The thing it that synthetic fuels are cyclic. We collect the emitted CO2 again.


> How?

Like this:

> The thing it that synthetic fuels are cyclic. We collect the emitted CO2 again.


Yes, you are focusing on the entire life cycle.

This is a bad argument, as you can employ the same argument with fossil fuels.

Fuels emit CO2. we can produce fuels by sequestration.


> as you can employ the same argument with fossil fuels

No you can't. "Let's burn oil/gas/coal and then re-capture all the CO2 back" is not something that you can do feasibly, economically, and at scale.


Yes, when you realize you're wasting your time and energy on something pointless it is time to stop doing that and focus on what you can change. If you want to control of how people travel all over the planet your best option is the fantasy world of computer games, or to vote for a politician that promises this fantasy.


This is a problem for law, not individuals, to solve.


I find very difficult to believe that any personal effort on mitigating CO2 emissions is worth it. A single decision by an individual working on a big company does make the difference, either for better or for worse, but not our own indvidual actions as CO2 emitters.


You don’t know GP’s contributions so it’s pointless to compare your own changes to GP’s. This is fatalistic thinking and ultimately boils down to focusing on the known negative and ignoring the unknown positive.


The idea of an individual carbon footprint was invented by oil companies to shift responsibility for climate change from corporations (the cause) to consumers (the victims). Your personal responsibility to address climate change begins and ends at the voting booth (direct action is also good if you really want to make a personal impact). Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


Instead, or as well, work on helping to change law so that people can't take so many flights.


Taking on the burden of all of mankind is not wise.


I feel the same. There are millions upon millions who use a fossil-fuel-powered wheelchair to get anywhere outside of their own house. The house opposite me right now has no less than three SUVs and they are all obese, including the dogs. I was depressed for years trying to live minimally and "do the right thing". Now I've adopted a can't beat 'em, join 'em approach. I just do what I want with little regard to my footprint, just like everyone else.


You think that's bad? The people telling you to eat bugs and stop driving cars and buy fraudulent carbon offsets from corporations they own fly around in private jets sometimes hundreds of times per year.


And the response of government is making flying more expensive. Which only inconveniences working class folks and not tech bros and CEOs.


You are a climate masochist. I recommend emotionally disengaging from topics that cause you grief and that you absolutely can not impact. The thought of personal CO2 emission reduction behavior having any kind of measurable impact on the climate is laughably naive.

I recently had to figure out the cheapest flights I could find to keep my star alliance frequent flier status, which I was at risk of losing because covid changed my business travel behavior. So in the end I was just visiting random European cities, sometimes with a connecting flight (I was keeping my status via flight segments).


That's like saying you shouldn't worry about reducing your personal wasting of food because it doesn't solve world hunger—like when choosing not to fly often there's a small impact that is very much noticeable on a larger scale if more people did it.

Even if the industries, the western world, developing countries forced to use coal plants for cheap energy (and you can choose many more actors that play a larger part in causing the climate crisis) contribute to the problem more than you as an individual, at least you're not actively making the world a worse place.


That makes me sad. Just flying for the sake of keeping a few small green pieces of paper. I guess the airlines are mostly to blame here for this bad method of pricing, but I'd really hope people would not do things like this.


now think about how often a pilot flies


> travel carry-on luggage only

That is impossible if one wishes to carry a pocketknife or handgun at one’s destination. The latter is fairly uncommon, but the former is very common, right?

Not to mention if one is bringing back a bottles of beer, wine or spirits.


I can't imagine a place where both:

1) I require a pocketknife and a handgun immediately upon arrival, and

2) I'd also like to pick up some bottles of fine wine while I'm there.

Sounds like a very interesting vacation, though.


> I require a pocketknife and a handgun immediately upon arrival

I carry a pocketknife every day.

I don’t carry a handgun, but there are plenty of states in the U.S. with CCW reciprocity; someone who carries in one and wishes to fly to another might quite reasonably wish to carry there as well.

‘Immediately’ is a loaded word. It would be weird to mail my hotel a pocketknife for a weekend trip.

> I'd also like to pick up some bottles of fine wine while I'm there.

There are a ton of microbreweries and distilleries in the U.S. whose products are not nationally distributed. I often like to bring things back from my travels. Wine’s not as regional, I think.

It’s an OR, of course, not an AND: some folks want to carry a pocketknife; others a handgun; others wish to fly with more than a few very small bottles of liquid.


You can literally buy a couple of pocket knives for the price of a checked bag if it's that important to you.


>The latter is fairly uncommon, but the former is very common, right?

idk, is it really?

>Not to mention if one is bringing back a bottles of beer, wine or spirits.

Buy that stuff at the destination.


eadmund's comment doesn't deserve all the hate. Carrying some sort of sharp object has been common since the stone age, and anyone who can't see the value in this has no imagination or life experience. What do you use to prepare food? If you're going carry-on only, your best bet is a small pair of scissors. 4 inch blade in USA, 2.36 (6 cm) in most of the rest of the world. In EU, pocketknives smaller than 6cm are allowed, and CATSA (Canada) was going to follow but USA said no. Americans hate knives and I have no idea why. Obviously, check the regulations yourself, don't just take my word for it.

If you're trying to reduce airline hassle, you kind of have to skip the handgun, mail it to yourself or get (borrow?) one at your destination. Whether or not you "need" one really depends on the purpose and location of your trip, but those details are too specific for this conversation. Also consider taking the train, since if you're carrying a handgun it's probably a domestic USA trip.

A tip for bringing back un-carryon-able items: Pack a simple and low bulk backpack inside your carry-on suitcase. If you decide to bring forbidden items back, check your carry-on suitcase and bring whatever you need for the plane in your backpack. This way you pay checked bag fees only in one direction and only if you really need to.


I guess if you really need a knife you can pick up a utility knife at your destination for a few dollars.


Why would you want to carry a pocketknife or a handgun ? Is this a satire ?


> Is this a satire ?

No, it’s honestly not. I carry a pocketknife all the time, to open envelopes or packages, cut twine, slice a sausage or cut some cheese, whatever.

As for handguns, it’s not common in other countries, but in many American states it is relatively easy to get a license to carry one, and about 1% of the population do on a daily basis. They are useful for self-defense. Plenty of people like to target shoot, too. It’s easy enough to fly with them in one’s checked baggage (one just has to declare them, and of course they must be unloaded), but they aren’t allowed to be carried aboard (or in the airport, for that matter). If one is already checking one’s firearm, one might as well just check a full bag.


If one's flying enough, ideally they have status with an airline to have some baggage allowance.

I hear you, though, I frequently bring back some knickknacks from abroad and will check in a small bag of booze.


Sounds like one would have to pay extra for the privilege then.

These are money saving tips. In general, if you want to go beyond basic services/privileges, you’re gonna have to pay more.


ive traveled a bit and never felt the need to bring a knife...




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