Stuff like this gives me hope for an open-source future. I love my Steam Deck, and I'll be making Framework my next computer purchase. I want to see these companies succeed because respecting consumer freedoms and contributing back to the open source community benefits us all. I'd love to see the walled-garden, service-driven approach to electronics become a thing of the past.
Many places online ban or otherwise shun political demagoguery like that. That sort of behavior does nothing to open discussion or otherwise change minds.
It's at best bad graffiti purely meant to inflame.
I’ve been waiting for this for a while now. Planning on opening my 512GB Steam Deck to do the following upgrades in one sitting:
- 2TB SSD
- GuliKit Hall Effect Joysticks upgrade
- JSAUX transparent backplate with new cooling solution + new back buttons
I think all three of these will seriously improve my Steam Deck experience which is already amazing. It’s my favorite gadget and really helps me blow through my years long Steam backlog.
I'd recommend doing some research before committing to this.
> GuliKit Hall Effect Joysticks upgrade
I've seen reports of these having issues with the range. Users are reporting the JS maxes out at about 30% of travel. Other users claim it's "worth it" not to worry about drift.
> JSAUX transparent backplate with new cooling solution + new back buttons
I've seen concerns that the backplate solution may expose other components to higher thermal stress at the expense of improving SOC cooling.
Given that Valve published the CAD of the case, there might be the possibility of a different screen size that simply comes with a different top shell as well.
I wonder if Valve are selling enough units that they could order a custom display for an upgraded model. It’ll be interesting to see if they make any attempt at compat with a presumed future Steam Deck 2.
I wish someone would make.. I don’t know what to call them, ‘low profile slide’ sticks for the Steam Deck.
I vaguely remember using a device with them in the past. Instead of being a joystick that you angle, it’s a stick that you ‘slide’ around in the joystick hole. Way more comfortable for a mobile device IMO.
Was this well tested when it comes to the Deck? Valve said they were very careful in choosing their ssd in terms of power draw and wifi interference. While I've replaced my PC with my Deck+Dock storage is one area where I would definitely want more. There are some quirks I've run into - like KDE has found 7 displays for my 3 total (Built-in + 2x 1080p) resulting in some weird panel movements when docking/undocking.
They're 2230 SSDs. It's fine. People have been using this model fine for months. I don't know why people are suddenly so skeptical about replacing parts when that was one of the points of using standard interfaces in a portable PC like this.
The form factor isn't the issue. The person you replied to was referencing the claims Valve made that they went through a lot of testing to ensure that the SSD chosen didn't interfere with other components in terms of EM interference. The WiFi module is underneath the SSD for example.
You say that this model has been used fine for months, can you clarify if you're talking about the specific 2TB SSD which framework is selling or 2230 SSDs in general?
My primary concern would be making the fragile and unreliable WiFi chip in the deck even more fragile and unreliable.
My Steam Deck almost never works on my 5 Ghz network. And even on the 2.4 Ghz network it randomly says that it can't connect to Steam servers. I wonder how more worse it could get with an aftermarket SSD.
If you've got WPA3 enabled on your router try disabling that. I've found a few devices which don't play well with it. If that doesn't help could be a hardware issue.
Nobody is debating whether it offers more features the issue is some clients currently have devastating firmware/driver issues when using WPA3 that make it completely unusable so it's worth trying it out and seeing if that's the cause or not, no?
Unfortunately if it is this is not something the user can fix like simply managing the firewall properly so you may choose to disable it for now in that case. That's fine, particularly for home WPA2 PSK networks where the only risks mitigated are someone DDOSing you off the Wi-Fi (which they can do without management frames via interference anyways) and someone getting your passkey and then decrypting past recorded traffic (future traffic is still a risk even with SAE, they can spoof being your SAE SSID and if your client connects to it you're sending all your data to your attacker, just extra securely now). In the future there may be other problems discovered with WPA2 but it's by no means considered insecure yet.
Anothing thing to try for 5 GHz issues (again, not to be taken as "do this everywhere all the time and just leave it that way regardless if it helps") is try non-DFS channels. They may normally be more open but devices sometimes still have problems with them and the regulatory requirements around what happens when there is interference in certain areas.
My Amplifi wifi started working with my Steam Deck when I lowered the 5 GHz frequency to 20MHz (I was otherwise stuck working around the issue by using a slower 2.4 GHz SSID).
Valve meant that to indicate they'd designed with high frequency signals in mind, not that it's a consideration unique to the Steam deck.
You're likelier to generate interference to radio performance from the display mode or USB devices, and ensuring datarates from common internal storage won't interfere is part of that.
the SSD Valve chose is rated 3.3v 1A, the SSD in question is rated 3.3v 2.5A
one can presume that a device capable of using 2.5x the wattage in an already ultra-confined area is going to face some heat dissipation issues at the very least
This right here is the core of the matter. When a Valve provides a detailed guide to replacing the SSD if you really want to, I trust the devs when they say we wanted to have higher storage capacities but heat dissipation was the constraining factor.
You want a Samsung PM991a, a Sabrent Rocket SB-2130-1TB, or a Kioxia BG4, to keep the draw as close to 1 amp as possible. Or slay your battery and bake your internals. It's your hardware, do what you want.
This is not a new concern, hardware designers almost always have tradeoffs like this. Just because the interface is standardized doesn't mean the interchangeable modules are identical or without trade-offs.
Sure you can swap in a new NVMe module or SO-DIMM into a given device, and while it may still function, you may now have worse performance and/or worse battery life.
Despite having the same physical interface, each NVMe module has different electrical specifications.
You missed the point. It's not the part that uses standard interfaces -- all these SSDs comply with those standards -- it's the part not specified by standards that matters. For example, we know that some drives produce more heat than others, or are faster/slower than others, and sometimes these two are tradeoffs. For a small handheld device like Deck, it's important to choose a drive that fits the form factor.
That is the sort of thing companies say to make you afraid to go 3rd party. Pretty rare that it ever has any practical bearing in reality. And Framework has real engineers so its not likely this would be one of those times.
I do not see why Steam would try to make people afraid of getting third-party modifications, when there are no first-party modifications.
Also, it is Steam/VALVe, they usually do not care.
Immutable OS - non flatpak stuff vanishes after a major update.
Use podman + distrobox/toolbox to keep things and install packages - similar to Fedora Silverblue.
As I said my display situation is a bit weird. On the dock I have two 1080p monitors. KDE Panels sometimes disappear and need to be moved. https://i.imgur.com/Ipvj8L4.png (eDP is build in display)
Other than that there is a complete silence in my room and I don't need much stuff for web dev. The only desktop game I play is dota 2 and I can live with lowered gfx settings.
I use it alongside with my main PC, macbook pro 14.
I decided not to alter rootfs, so I left it in RO mode. Instead I installed everything I need via flatpak and installed homebrew to have a build tools, compilers and so on.
Using thunderbolt monitor makes it a decent work horse. Basically some days I commute only with steam deck to my office, because I have monitor, keyboard and mouse there as well.
EDIT: I work on 4K monitor. And by the way, I have a running VM on my steam deck just in case I need something extra.
A) This is very cool, and I’m sorely tempted to get one.
B) I think the disclaimer on the product page that it isn’t compatible with the framework should be larger and more prominent. I feel like one sentence at the end of the product description might not be enough warning.
Nah that's not good enough. It might be electrically compatible, but is certainly not physically compatible. And if it was "compatible" according to framework's definition, why would they add a compatibility warning at all?
Let's ask us the question: Should Framework claim that this SSD is compatible with their laptops? Personally, I think it would be misleading if Framework sold an SSD, claimed it was compatible with the Framework laptop, but you had to buy a third-party adapter to get the SSD to fit. That's the sense in which the SSD is not compatible with the laptop.
Luckily, Framework sees things as the same way as me, hence the compatibility warning.
I’m just saying if I bought it by mistake I’d must make it work rather than return it. When all you need is a little tape and cardboard is no big deal. I understand why they have a warning, but even if you miss it you’re nowhere close to screwed.
>You may be thinking “what?” but we spotted an interesting opportunity to enable upgrades on another popular consumer electronics product: the Steam Deck.
and
>We’re continuing to search for ways to help you with hard-to-find upgrades for other products, so let us know if there is anything we should focus on!
I presume you read the article and are looking for a larger strategy beyond the "since we could, we did" offered therein.
I don't know to what extent this is part of a high-level strategy rather than a clever idea by someone in purchasing that got approved by some VP (sounds like the latter), but as a strategy it makes sense and gives me confidence in Framework's longevity.
0. Framework has a small target market to begin with, since most people really don't care about right to repair.
1. Selling components is a different business with different logistics and economies of scale than selling computers. (Maybe 1% of people who buy Frameworks will ever replace their display.)
3. I don't have numbers for either, but I suspect the Steam Deck is outselling Framework by orders of magnitude.
4. Stocking parts for other, better-selling devices may be what it takes to make their parts business self-sustaining.
As long as selling parts is a money-loser for Framework, the company will have a financial incentive to scale that operation back, no matter what their vision statement and marketing says. And if they run into financial difficulty, that's a decision that they'll have to evaluate. Framework without parts is just another laptop that's thicker and heavier than necessary.
NB: If it isn't apparent, this is all based on my own conjecture. But I think it makes a reasonable case for expanding their parts business nonetheless.
Exactly. But I guess it makes sense, because Framework wants to occupy the economic niche of repairable electronics. And the Steam Deck is definitely a good starting point for expansion, so that they can serve a bigger market.
I have a personal Framework (cheapest DIY at launch - i5-1135G7) and a ThinkPad T15 (i5-1165G7) from work; that would be recommendation too.
(I'm not claiming the slower CPU Framework is somehow faster than T15 - I just mean to say I'm not biased by the Framework having better hardware, being better on paper.)
Build quality alone is superior IMO, even if it wasn't for the glorious repairability & upgradeability. (Which is glorious, they really paid attention to that, it's not just 'RAM is not soldered down', it's attention to detail like magnetic positioning, captive screws, etc.)
I replaced my previous Thinkpad X1 carbon with a Framework 12th gen recently - vast improvement, runs Linux better than any other laptop I've ever used, I love using it, and I _love_ how repairable & upgradeable it is. Highly recommended.
Same, but I don't care much about Team Blue vs Red. The Intel-driven power saving fiasco of the latest generation of Framework laptops is enough to keep me away.
I should not have to add weird kernel parameters or modules for my laptop not to burn through its battery during sleep.
Basically the P CPUs are much faster than U in previous generations but are also much more power hungry. The battery life is noticably shorter on laptops with a CPU like i5-1240P. And they produce a LOT of heat. I think one CPU option for framework laptop is i5-1240P.
I was an AMD fan in the 90s, they were more enthusiast and gamer friendly, overclocking was easier, and they were generally just less enthusiast-hostile than Intel.
In the 2000's AMD all but disappeared, and with the Core2 and eventually i3/i5/i7 series, Intel was the only option, so people like me bought Intel, we had no choice.
But the second AMD came back with (Ry)Zen, I ditched Intel in a heartbeat; after years of their complacence, shitty upgrades, constantly changing sockets and ridiculous prices, there was finally a "better" option again.
This is great for everyone because it's forcing Intel to wake up, more competition and better prices, and hopefully better products from Intel.
In the early 2000's, AMD's Athlon trounced anything Intel had to offer and would for years.
This followed soon after with the Opteron, where AMD single-handedly switched "x86" over to 64-bit essentially overnight while Intel failed to shove Itanium and a number of other ill-fated ventures down the market's throat.
If anything, the 2000's were AMD's golden years, admittedly mostly made possible by Intel's own incompetence at the time.
I haven't bought an Intel CPU in over 15 years but I also don't think that AMD will do that much better if they are left without sufficient competition. We already saw them dropping non-pro Threadrippers, leaving an entire segment with only sidegrades. Hopefully Intel will be able to compete going forward.
We are talking Amx86 to K6-3, always the worse budged/upgrade option. Nobody chose AMD for performance, overclocking or enthusiast friendliness. Price advantage evaporated in 1998 with the release of Intel Celeron https://akiba-pc.watch.impress.co.jp/hotline/981226/p_cpu.ht... ~120 yen to $1
First K6-3 to show up in Japan was K6-III/400 at hilarious 35,500 yen aka $295!! in March 1999. Athlon shipped very late in 1999 with barely 4 months left. K6-3+ on the other hand was April 2000 at $140-180, almost twice the price of faster Celerons and Durons.
>In the 2000's AMD all but disappeared
Did you mean to say AMD started leading x86 CPU race by taking performance crown and being first to 1GHz? https://www.zdnet.com/article/its-official-amd-hits-1000mhz-... Intel wasnt happy and in turn shipped 1.13-GHz Pentium III just to recall them all due to instability https://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-recalls-1-13ghz-pentium-... Faster processors, first dual core, first 64bit. First half of 2000 was when AMD started shining, only to be cut down by Intel bribing scandal - MCP (Meet Comp Program) in exchange for strict no AMD commitments. DELL, HP, pretty much all mayors took Intel $, $6 billion in kick-backs.
AMD is a better option due to better price per performance per watt, mainly. There's also the added advantage of voting with your wallet against a stagnating former near-monopoly that abused its market position (they were fined for paying OEMs to only advertise Intel-based devices, but weirdly to this day Dell still continues to put Intel based devices much more prominently than AMD ones).
Regarding Thunderbolt 4, I use my Thunderbolt monitor with my fully AMD-based Asus ROG Zephyrus which is only "USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C" compatible and everything works. But i can understand that it can be a crapshoot on cheaper laptops, but isn't that the same on Intel-based cheaper laptops? If they're cheap, they probably cheaped out on getting the Thunderbolt certification.
I begrudgingly switched to Intel some time ago because of Thunderbolt 4 and AMD's lack of support for Thunderbolt in general, especially in budget-friendly lines (around $1000 USD in my case). There were also weird virtualization issues with AMD compared to Intel.
Now it's getting better, so I'd consider it for my next laptop, but for those who dock a ton of peripherals and monitors, I recommend strict Thunderbolt 4 compliance - which again, I hope more AMD-powered machines can bring to bear.
I am a dev with the need to virtualize ALOT. My main driver is also a Linux based system. I had to use a ThinkPad T14 2021 (maxed out AMD version) before I switch employees. It was a horrible experience:
* virtualization issues left and right. Everything was working but weird behavior from time to time. Like random performance degradation, rare crashes and mostly compatibility issues with experimental stuff (e.g. Integrated gpu pass through was not possible with AMDs at the time)
* battery life sucked (ironically this should be an Intel Issue)
* standby was not working as expected
* no support for Display Link
* Thunderbolt 4 (huge issue for me)
Now I am on the Framework i7 11 Gen and all the issues are gone. Yes Battery life could be better but it was way worse with the AMD.
Basically the P CPUs are much faster than U in previous generations but are also much more power hungry. The battery life is noticably shorter on laptops with a CPU like i5-1240P. And they produce a LOT of heat. I think one CPU option for framework laptop is i5-1240P. "
AMD CPUs are much better for laptop as they tend to scale better at acceptable power draw levels for something battery powered while retaining good performance. Intel has the lead on the low power/low performance stuff.
for me the deal breaker is physical mouse buttons, including middle mouse click. Thinkpads have them to support their nipple mouse (which i don't care about), but I don't want a laptop without the buttons (i like the physical left click for drag and drop, and middle click for internet browsing). Lots of laptops that have come out in recent years are pretty tempting, but most of them don't have the mouse buttons
And I'll add to that that the number of ports is disappointing. I like their system of flexible ports, but they should really have made the module large enough to support 2 ports in one module. 4 ports total seems like the bare minimum if you are not going to use a dock.
I currently have an AMD Thinkpad and would not get another to run Linux. For most of the life of the laptop battery life has been horrible. In the last year it has been better but still nowhere near as good as it is with Windows. AMD and Lenovo are both aware it is an issue, it is not restricted to this Thinkpad, but neither care enough to devote resources to tracking down and resolving the cause. I'm guessing because the Linux laptop market isn't large enough for them to devote the resources to.
Interesting, it's the other way around for me with screens. Glossy screens have better colors and text looks crispier to me, something about the lack of diffusion around character's borders. I honestly don't know how matte screens are still a thing: you can always turn a smooth surface into matte with a screen protector, but not the opposite.
I used ThinkPads before too and swapped to tuxedo books now.
They make laptops specifically for Linux and even provide software updates etc. For Linux. I'm quite happy, but it's more expensive.
I've done this too, mainly because of the limited RAM upgrade options in the ThinkPad T series (only one free slot and one soldered).
But one must be aware that tuxedo doesn't "make" laptops in the narrower sense. They're a Schenker reseller and while I'm overall satisfied with my tuxedo the build quality isn't close to ThinkPads T or X series.
The killer feature would be if framework design their motherboards so that they also happen to fit in the older rock-solid Thinkpads - that'll pretty much bring them all back to being modern machines with full power and unbeatable build quality.
I'm really tempted, but thinkpads are still just about edging ahead for me
(1) Entirely subjective, but I think they look better (2) I like the trackpoint and (3) AMD is an option. I dont have any problem with intel cpu's, but amd provides far better igpu's, certainly enough to play a lot of games at lower settings.
ThinkPad Keyboards are generally waterproof. The framework keyboard is not. And it has no red mouse dot. However it feels nice and is even easier to replace than the Thinkpad one if needed.
Replaced my Thinkpad with a framework a few months ago and as long as I don't spill my drink over it, it looks like I will enjoy the framework a long time.
Slightly off topic. But when I got my first 60% keyboard I started using the SpaceFN layout (via TouchCursor on Windows) and never looked back. Even on larger keyboards.
SpaceFN turns your space bar into a meta key, and arrows/home/end/pgup/pgdown are all reachable from the home row. I can't go back.
You can't use it in application that need to know if your holding down the spacebar (graphic design software, games). I switch it off for those. But otherwise I haven't had any issues (besides TouchCursor, which is buggy and need a restart every now and then).
Having navigational keys on the home row is something every software developer should use (but almost no one does). Unlike Vim-style keybindings it just works everywhere.
Personally I am using an unused key on my keyboard (layout) as modifier to access them. My particular mapping is based on the Neo Layout [0]. Basically FPS-style WASD but shifted by one key to the right.
As tool to change keyboard layout I use Interception Tools [1] and a personal C program. The advantage of interception tools is that it works everywhere (even outside a desktop environment).
[0]: https://www.neo-layout.org/ – It's a German page, but you can look at "Ebene 4" on the keyboard thingy to see the layout.
Thank you, this makes so much sense! I use Neo2 on a 75%, longer learning curve but absolutely worth it IMHO. Sadly the docs are only german, think i'll have to do something about it.
No trackpoint, oversized trackpad, I think I'll stick with my modified X230 for the time being. An AMD option also wouldn't hurt but its not as big of a priority for me as a trackpoint.
Replace the keyboard and palm rest with an X220 keyboard and palm rest.
I believe there are also other modifications you can do like fitting a higher resolution screen (requires soldering). But I haven't gotten that far yet.
The 2230 M.2 drives really are quite uncommon. I ended up purchasing a second-hand Samsung PM991 256GB drive off eBay for £27 when I upgraded my Steam Deck. I'm not hugely impressed with the price, but I certainly appreciate Framework making more of these drives available.
If all that's necessary is ordering these from WD, what's stopping newegg and the like from also stocking them? I don't really get why they're trying to move in on this market.
Sure it probably doesn't take a ton of extra work, but I also don't imagine many random consumers are going to think to check frame.work for their Steam Deck upgrade HD. And I doubt there's much overlap between people buying a new laptop and trying to get more Steam Deck HD space. A few people accidentally buying this drive for their framework seems like it'd make the negatives outweigh the positives.
Perhaps their thinking is that the kind of people who are into the Steam Deck (especially those who might want to tinker with it a bit) are the same kind of people who might consider a laptop like this. It seems a lot of the idealogical approach/framing is similar between the two.
So get it well known in the SD community -> maybe sell more laptops
On the other hand I know multiple people who basically never move their laptop, and their list of reasons for getting a laptop boils down to "everyone has a laptop", "I've always had a laptop" and "it takes less space". For these people, an eGPU is a reasonable choice.
What about people who game on their laptop (at home) but don't need to game on the go? In that case an eGPU also sounds like a reasonable choice. They can just leave the eGPU at home and still be productive away from their desk.
I'm one of those people. My current laptop came with an eGPU enclosure, and I recently put a 3090 in it. The battery life on the laptop is so bad that it's basically a desktop now constantly connected to the eGPU and power supply. For gaming and resource heavy tasks it works great though, even if a bit loud at times.
I ended up getting a much better and slimmer laptop for actual portable work.
Originally she asked for a desktop. I talked her into a laptop with an eGPU because she has a medical condition that significantly limits her strength and flexibility. I thought splitting the GPU would be best for weight and did not want to burden her with a chonky gaming laptop.
My gaming laptop's mainboard recently got fried from overheating, could you tell me a bit more about this setup/where to look to find out more? I've never even considered this possibility, I was tempted to just give up on laptops for gaming for good this time and build a computer, but your setup sounds very interesting
Sure, we are settled on these parts for now, and tested the PCIe to nvme setup on my framework laptop already.
SilverStone Technology Ultra Small Form Factor Computer Case Mini-ITX in Pink SG13P https://a.co/d/exedSxn
SilverStone Technology SX800-LTI 800W, SFX-L, 80 Plus Titanium, Modular Power Supply with Japanese Capacitors https://a.co/d/3nPhC7D
Yes I know the PSU is overkill, keep reading to understand.
ADT-Link M.2 NGFF NVMe Key M Extender Cable to PCIE x16 Graphics Card Riser Adapter 16x PCI-e PCI-Express for M2 2230 2242 2260 2280 (25cm) https://a.co/d/byrNLRB
IOmesh Black Universal IO Shield Plate - for All PC Motherboards That was Lost Original Backplate, Make New Custom IO Shield for PC Motherboard https://a.co/d/cccJpiA
Then we might share my 3060 until I feel like buying a 4000 series. Buying the parts in this way will also let us pivot back to this case holding a desktop if later desired. Weight is also a serious concern as she can't lift much due to a medical condition, so having a non chonky laptop for travel is useful.
Even still, my 11th gen framework played my game FF7 Remake, and her favorite, Second Life, just fine. So I figure a low end 12th gen frame.work should be perfect. Which will also let us salvage memory, wifi, NVMe from her old laptop.
Thinking about turning the old laptop into a lapdock.
Not sure if I should throw it in the trash, sell it for parts, or do a strange project with it.
Also, I've already checked the dimensions, I should be able to retire the old framework mainboards into the case I picked up for her. There is a frame.work main board to ATX stand off design file out there, will need a small adaptation to fit that case, but it should be fine.
Thanks for the detailed answer! So if I understand correctly you're planning to use a small computer case instead of an eGPU specific one? This is probably a stupid question but I don't quite understand it connects to the laptop
I forgot one other useful product. This thing below will wire the PSU to always be on, but many PSUs have a switch on the back anyways.
ASHATA 24-Pin ATX Power Supply Jumper Bridge Tool,24Pin ATX Power Supply Starter Power Module 20+4 Pin PSU Reboot Connecter for BTC Miner Machine https://a.co/d/btOU8D9
Under the hood thunderbolt supports PCIe x4 Gen 3. Hence my previous question on if it was possible to bond 2 or 4 thunderbolt ports into a full PCIe x16 port, but that is definitely a bridge too far, lol.
In short, on a USB 3 port with thunderbolt (or a USB 4 port) you can connect an external GPU enclosure. I think the standard setup is to just get an enclosure (like a Razor Core X) and add your own full-sized GPU.
This came out of our own internal observation that 2TB 2230 SSDs were available from our suppliers, but seemed to be completely unavailable on the retail market, despite there being a clear need for Steam Deck users.
Edit: Just expanding on this further. The reason this gap existed was likely a "shipping the org chart" one. For storage and memory makers, the retail, OEM (selling in bulk to computer makers), and embedded/industrial teams are pretty siloed from each other. We are one of the very rare companies that buys both retail and OEM memory and storage, so we spotted the opportunity to bring an OEM drive to a retail audience that needed it.
You feel comfortable enough buying a computer part, especially one that is relatively easy to fake, from Aliexpress? Seriously?
For one, you most certainly wouldn’t get any warranty with it. Or proof that it’s a n official product. Or proof that it won’t lose anything other than the first 32gb written.
That’s not a retail channel. At best, it’s a “fallen off the truck” channel.
The Framework Marketplace is where the company sells accessories for their products. The products which are sourced directly from WD, as clearly explained by TFA. Did you even read the article or look at the marketplace before commenting? It’s pretty obvious it’s not a third party marketplace from like… a second of browsing.
The only random seller you’d be buying from is the one on AE. The one which couldn’t possibly provide you with a warranty or even guarantee that what you’re buying is a real product. 1740 people could have easily been scammed or are in on the scam. That’s not a lot of people, especially not random online stranger who have no incentive to be honest with you about their experiences.
I briefly read that article, I saw marketplace and thought it is like Walmart marketplace. I buy on Aliexpress from reputable sellers and I find it better than buying on Amazon. At least reviews are not faked.
“No” is a complete sentence. As is “No, I didn’t bother looking, assumed, then got caught with my pants down when my assumptions were proven wrong with… 5 seconds of looking at it”.
Next time, maybe actually take the most cursory of looks at what something is before going off and assuming. It will help save you from looking like a complete fool.
> At least reviews are not faked.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh that’s hilarious. If you believe that, I’ve got a boat to sell you. A whole marina, even.
I haven’t made any statements that can be easily proven false with the quickest of glances. That was you.
At the end of the day, show me how AliExpress prevents fake reviews, ensures that each of those buyers is real, and that the seller is authorized to sell the product and offers a full warranty. Buying from Framework ensures that because they’re officially reselling the products from the supplier.
You know, the most basic of requirements to be considered a “retail channel”.
There is a seller on a known platform with lots of reviews and pictures where people put WD drives into their Steam consoles. The platform I already use. And there is some random website, popular on HN, no reviews, no pictures, nothing and they also sell WD drives. I never shopped on the latter since they mostly sell laptops but not Linux laptops. I trust Aliexpress vendor who sold 1715 drives for Steam console more than Framework. Unless you show me statement from WD that Framework is official reseller and WD JBL Global Sales Store not.
Have you even read your own link? The store's name is "JBL Global Sales Store". It has no WD in the name, or any proof that they are related to the company. In fact, it's only been in business for a bit over a year, so it's not like it has any weight behind its name.
I'm just rolling on the floor at the idea that a random seller on AE is more reputable and trustworthy than Framework. One of Time's best inventions of 2021 or Fast Company's most innovative companies of 2022. That's rich.
An OEM has extreme incentives to stock real products. Considering they have to support said products for years and deal with any negative PR when something goes wrong. A random AE seller which has a 75-day money back guarantee has no such incentive.
1700 people who bought it there. 240 reviews, some with pictures of people inserting drives to Steam console. I would rather buy from Aliexpress for $215 than from Framework for $299.
Be careful. Many people pop a drive in, add a few games and then report the drives as legit .when in actuality, it's a 512gb drive spoofed to be a 2tb drive etc.
My advice, if you buy such a drive, install it in a USB case, and rub a verification program (RMusbPrep, FakeFlash).
I do not suggest these drives for your steam deck unless you're planning on using it docked all the time, or dont card about battery life. They use more power than the stock ssd and these WD ones consume up to 15w which will kill your battery life pretty quickly. Also they seem to run much warmer than the ones shipped with the deck.
Also why buy from framework? Their price is no better than anywhere else. Sounds like they're just trying to cash in on a new market.
It answers right there in sentence 3 _why buy from Framework_.
> the handheld Steam Deck relies on the physically smaller but less common 2230 format. As a result, it can be difficult to find legitimate sources for larger capacity drives ... Since we order a huge number of Western Digital drives already, it’s relatively easy for us to add one more line item
> Sounds like they're just trying to cash in on a new market.
So, business 101? What's the problem? They're offering a legitimate product for a legitimate market trying to solve a legitimate problem they identified.
These are quite readily available from many other retailers and sometimes for even cheaper than $300. My guess is they had plans to release a 2tb storage module with these inside them but people aren't actually buying the 1tb modules so they decided to sell them for use in steam deck.
If business 101 is marketing to fanboys then I guess you're right.
supply chain is king when it comes to purchasing flash, there are an enormous amount of fake SSDs and flash cards floating around.
if this one particular drive is the new hotness then yeah there will be chinese sellers knocking up stencils and packaging tomorrow, whoosh this 128gb drive is now a (checks label) 2TB WD SN740!
knockoffs and fraud not just permeate but practically saturate the supply chain for flash. if you don't know where it's coming from then it's not genuine, period the end. best buy, adorama/B&H, or other electronics retailers with a legitimate supply chain? sure, fine. but anyone that commingles inventory, especially amazon, and any sort of third-party marketplace, you're going to get a significant number if not majority of fakes.
> I do not suggest these drives for your steam deck unless you're planning on using it docked all the time, or dont card about battery life. They use more power than the stock ssd and these WD ones consume up to 15w which will kill your battery life pretty quickly. Also they seem to run much warmer than the ones shipped with the deck.
Is this really measured to be true, or just hypothesized from the specs?
I could imagine peak sustained draw per second could be higher because the I/O might be better, but do they actually use more power to read the same number of bits?
> They use more power than the stock ssd and these WD ones consume up to 15w
No, they don't. 15W is pretty much the highest achievable power consumption for a M.2 22x110mm enterprise SSD; beyond that, you're running into limitations on how much current can be safely passed by the connector's few pins connected to a paltry 3.3V. These days, it would be typical for a M.2 2230 SSD to rarely go above 1.5W except in benchmarks that really are not representative of the workload a video game presents to the drive.
Does anyone know if this works in Lenovo WWAN slots? is it one sided or double sided? Side rant, I hate how most manufacturers don't show if their SSD's are single or double sided. For example you might buy a 2TB version that's single sided and then have the same one at 4TB be double sided which no hint anywhere.
I guess that's better than buying 4x 512GB micro sdcards to juggle around, trying to remember which game was on which exact card or where you might have lost one.
I had not heard that? It should be able to fully utilise PCIe Gen 3 x4 NVMe drives that are increadably fast. This will be night and day with the best SD card in many common computing tasks. However is often hidden in games (many expecting to load off snails pace optical discs) where they are only sequentially accessing a few GB whilst showing their publisher's logo anyway.
Framework laptop came with a broken MoBo and a broken display. Working with support to prove my malfunctioning hardware has been a many months ongoing struggle
The only differences on the 64GB and 256GB models compared to the 512GB model are that the screen doesn’t have the anti-glare etching and you don’t get as nice of a case. Also you don’t get some software perks like special keyboard styles.
The anti glare etched glass is exclusive to the 512GB model - for whatever reason. I can't imagine it costing that much more to produce and I wish they'd have just put it on every model.
It's definitely not a matte screen, but a coating that cuts the worst of the glare. Kind of like a decent phone screen. Of course, I just wanted the storage, and then I put a glass screen protector on right away, making the glare even worse...
Here is a blog post that shows the differences most realistically to my perception of it.
i bought one of these on ebay for my asus x13, as that also only allows 2230 ssds... so far it is working fine :-) still at a large premium over 2280 ssds, though. But even though in principal booting and working from a usb-c attached ssd works fine, it is still some "friction", and one less port available...
at least the next asus x13 is switching to the "standard"-format for the ssd, iirc.
What's stopping you from getting someone to buy it, open and re-pack it, then ship it to you as "lol whoops you forgot your Steam Deck at my house, this totally isn't a commercial sale that you have to pay VAT on haha"
I realized that it'll be years before I can buy a Steamdeck where I live.
However, the frustration led me to discover something even better: it's possible to stream games to a tablet from my laptop (which is way more powerful than a Steamdeck).
So I bought a a clip on gamepad and attached it to a 10 inch tablet. The weight comes in within 10g of the Steamdeck and streaming over Moonlight is surprisingly easy to set up. Parsec is another app that looks interesting and you'll need to use that if you have an AMD card.
So now I can play an a super high quality 10 inch screen with zero fan noises and hours of battery life. I've played through most of Stray and it's a gorgeous game.
I still need to do some work - the gamepad I bought (Ipega 9083s) clips on quite low on the tablet which makes it a bit top heavy. It's also very cheap and the d-pad is a bit crappy. Neither is a deal breaker for a casual gamer.
However in the future I'll get a better quality gamepad. There's surprisingly few that can attach to a tablet but I've seen examples of people DIYing it with a Razer mobile gamepad that is designed for a Samsung Galaxy and it looks pretty easy. You can probably just detach the two halves and glue them onto the tablet cover in a stylish looking way if you have decent DIY chops and a dremel.
Oh and you'll also need a HDMI dongle to create a fake screen on the pc, then give it the same resolution as your tablet. These cost about a euro.
Bonus: I now have zero interest in buying a Steamdeck.
> I realized that it'll be years before I can buy a Steamdeck where I live.
There are mail forwarding services and unofficial resellers. Even in Russia, you can buy Steam Deck with next-day delivery. At a premium, of course, but it's not that bad.
The main selling point might be its price. The GPD Win4 with 32GB RAM looks pretty sweet, runs SteamOS, but is in a whole different price category altogether.
The other aspect is latency, even streaming from a wired ethernet connection to a wifi phone or tablet makes platformers especially feel frustrating to play
You're right, but personally there are no situations where I would travel with a Steamdeck and not a laptop. Maybe if I was going on vacation but I don't think I'd bring a Steamdeck then anyway.
It's a bit more work to just pull out and play - I need to turn on the laptop too, such effort!
I forgot to mention in the original post - I thought I was going to only be able to use this in places with really fast wifi. But it turns out I can just turn on a 5g hotspot on my laptop and connect the tablet to that. As long as I'm in the same room, it's fast enough for the max quality settings in Moonlight and I get around 10ms latency.
So it's not as portable as a Steamdeck. But it is "fits in a backpack" portable.
I wanted the SteamDeck, but I was concerned about the fan noise when gaming next to my SO in bed at night.
I have a Gamesir X2 Pro on a Samsung A7 Lite 8.7" that cost me about $150 to put together.
The X2 Pro doesn't normally expand out that far, but you can take a pocket knife and just cut off the two clips preventing that expansion. Super easy to do. The only down side is the USB-C passthrough charging doesn't work.
I also use moonlight, but the best part is installing PSPlay and connecting to my PS4 Pro. That gives me the suspend/resume/sleep capabilities that make the SteamDeck so popular for quick sessions and Ghost of Tsushima on this setup looks unbelievable for a 6 year old console.
Although not too relevant to you now, just want to add that the fan noise is essentially imperceptible nowadays. I usually only even notice the fan if I put my finger over the vent. Put differently, the sounds from pressing buttons and generally moving in bed will be louder than the fan.
Yeah, also the Steam Link is quite nice, and I have used it with XBox, PS and Steam controllers.
Now the issue here is that I am trying to boycott Steam, what kind of open source support is there for Valve's hardware : Steam Link, Controller, Deck, whatever their VR headsets are called ..?
I think the most unusual driver you'll need for the Deck is the controller. There's upcoming mainline Linux support[0], which Steam Controller already has. The default behavior either has it emulate a mouse/keyboard, or requires Steam to act as a driver. There's an open source project to do gyro mapping and all that the Steam client does, and they're working on Deck Controller support[1]
Interesting, where do you live that you can't buy a Steamdeck but can buy a 10 inch tablet? Those typically don't come cheap and Valve does deliver worldwide don't they?
Valve does not deliver worldwide. A few select countries. They added a few more since launch like Japan and South Korea but it's not available in a lot of Europe, Australia, etc.
Vietnam. No, they don't deliver here or many other places in the world.
I was considering getting one next time I go back to Europe for a vacation but even there it's a many months waiting list. Sure, I could get one second hand but I decided to jump off the hype train instead.
Tell you what I had to do: create a Steam account domiciled in Ireland, attach an Irish bank pass to it, order and have it shipped to my place in Ireland, then throw it in my bag and bring it with me back to Switzerland. What a pain. At least it works on my Swiss Steam account.
There are guys on the Swiss classified sites who claim they'll order for you (at a noticeable premium of several hundred CHF) but that Valve will ship "gifted" decks direct to recipients in Switzerland. I do not think this is true. I cannot personally do this with my Irish account.
> However, the frustration led me to discover something even better: it's possible to stream games to a tablet from my laptop (which is way more powerful than a Steamdeck).
