Because most L9's at Google have created significant contributions to the industry, these are folks like David Patterson (created RISC), Rob Pike (created Golang) etc...
Foundational work that affects Google's bottom lines but also the rest of the industry. Its this work done earlier that even allowed these glorified managers to be employed and have their ridiculous salaries.
Its frankly shocking that some VP+ can come in and fire a Distinguished Engineer. Its the equivalent of pissing on the shoulder of a titan. Totally deplorable that this is allowed or tolerated.
> Because most L9's at Google have created significant contributions to the industry,
I see that you're using the past tense there. "But what have they done for me lately?" L9 isn't a sinecure. It is a very highly compensated position, and the ongoing production from all of that compensation needs to be high.
But I think you missed the larger point, which is that, during a layoff, even good employees let go. When you let go X% of your workforce, that means you're letting go even good employees. And you're letting go roughly X% of people at all levels. Some L9s were gonna have to go, same as some L4s were gonna go. No one is immune from a layoff. Indeed having people that are immune is legally problematic.
When you do a layoff, you are accepting that you are potentially going to be letting anyone and everyone go. Yes, even high level long-tenured engineers.
People might also be forgetting that they might have asked to be laid off. I had a person do this a few years ago when one of my high performers told me they were leaving soon and wanted a comp package so they could take a vacation and still get paid.
It’s not voluntary. It’s people communicating and doing each other a favor that works for everyone. It’s not far fetched that a VP and a distinguished engineer would have a meeting at least occasionally.
Just stating a lot of people are jumping to a conclusion without any facts.
Look at it this way.
VP: I have to come up with a list of people to let go. It’s a large amount and you have worked across many teams maybe you have some insight on some teams that we should look at first.
DE: … gives some advice. You know I was planning on leaving soon and maybe this is a good time to leave. I can help you hit your quota and you can give me a decent severance package.
VP: I hate to see you go but would be glad to help you out.
You're just speculating and making this all up though. The vast, vast majority of people affected by the layoff didn't know anything was coming. Could be 100% of them.
Sure but the L9 most likely had 1 on 1s with the SVPs who were in the know, and if they L9 had mentioned that they were thinking of retiring soon, especially after how well the stock as done recently, then the SVP might have just put them on the list to save a few other jobs.
> And you're letting go roughly X% of people at all levels. Some L9s were gonna have to go, same as some L4s were gonna go. No one is immune from a layoff. Indeed having people that are immune is legally problematic.
You have a valid point here, the Airtable data shows 5 VPs were also let go.
What's this ridiculous diefication you're doing of people. It's all just work, and if the work doesn't arguably produce more than what you cost, you're not really very persuasive of an investment, especially if you can be replaced, and everyone can.
Being really good at skateboarding can earn you a bit of money and notoriety, but not necessarily and it's a hell of a lot of work, which will end eventually. Being really good at skateboarding and having good style sells things for the companies that pay you, but your skill is ancillary, it's the notoriety of the skill that matters.
I'd add to this that I've met people with high levels of achievement and competency, and they are inspiring in some ways, but I don't hold them up and herald them like this. They're just people, they have people problems, nobody is really exempt from that. They can be alcoholics, they can go bankrupt, they can go out of fashion and get old, they can break bones, their dogs can die, their cars can get broken into, their partners can leave them or they can be virgins who never figured out human interaction. If you're getting robbed in a sketchy part of town, you can't yell out "but.. but I'm an L9 engineer at Google" and somehow get out of it, unless the guy robbing you is a homeless junior trying to enter the industry and since you got in 20 years ago when there were only 2 rounds of interviews, one of which was to estimate how many windows there are in Seattle, maybe you can get them in.
Since we're all doing hot takes, mine is simply that Google has stopped innovating. It's perfectly reasonable to hold an L9 up to a high standard, like figuring out what the next paradigm shift will be and how do we jump out in front of it.
The whole industry has this problem. No one knows what the next big thing will be so it's all just bean counters who want to optimize existing revenue streams. You don't need L9's for that. What was once brave and new is now routine and can be handled by lower-level people.
It was telling that one of the titans of the US tech industry and one of the few real innovators left in the States wanted to copy a Chinese app, I'm talking about Musk wanting to transform Twitter into a WeChat "for the world" [1]. Unfortunately that aspect was lost because of the whole the political brouhaha surrounding Twitter's acquisition. It used to be the other way round, the Germans or the Chinese used to copy the US tech titans.
There's also Zuckerberg. I'm not into AR/VR at all, but he at least tries to build a new tech sector almost from the ground-up. There's very few of those people left in the US.
>Its the equivalent of pissing on the shoulder of a titan. Totally deplorable that this is allowed or tolerated.
Google is a corporation, not a gerontocracy where the elders are somehow above the hierarchy. Engineers, distinguished or otherwise are simply employees, just like the CEO. The owners of a corporation and whoever they delegate authority to get to decide who stays. This isn't deplorable, that's how private businesses work. If you expect tenure you choose the wrong workplace.
If a relatively old company is able to reign in seniority somewhat that to me is a pretty healthy signal.
There are L9 managers whose sole contributions have been empire building and politics. I know one who in fact had negative contributions but played the politics very well
Foundational work that affects Google's bottom lines but also the rest of the industry. Its this work done earlier that even allowed these glorified managers to be employed and have their ridiculous salaries.
Its frankly shocking that some VP+ can come in and fire a Distinguished Engineer. Its the equivalent of pissing on the shoulder of a titan. Totally deplorable that this is allowed or tolerated.