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Bitrex – the brand name of the bitterest substance in the world (bitrex.com)
104 points by adrian_mrd on Jan 31, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 88 comments



Wikipedia article on the substance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium

  Denatonium, usually available as denatonium benzoate 
  (under trade names such as Denatrol, BITTERANT-b, 
  BITTER+PLUS, Bitrex, Bitrix, and Aversion) and as 
  denatonium saccharide (BITTERANT-s), is the most 
  bitter chemical compound known, with bitterness 
  thresholds of 0.05 ppm for the benzoate and 0.01 ppm 
  for the saccharide. It was discovered in 1958 during 
  research on local anesthetics by MacFarlan Smith of 
  Edinburgh, Scotland, and registered under the 
  trademark Bitrex.
  
  Dilutions of as little as 10 ppm are unbearably bitter 
  to most humans. Denatonium salts are usually colorless 
  and odorless solids, but are often traded as solutions. 
  They are used as aversive agents (bitterants) to 
  prevent inappropriate ingestion. Denatonium is used in 
  denatured alcohol, antifreeze, preventive nail biting 
  preparations, respirator mask fit-testing, animal 
  repellents, liquid soaps, shampoos, and Nintendo Switch 
  game cards to prevent accidental swallowing or choking 
  by children. It is not known to pose any long-term 
  health risks.
  
  The name "denatonium" reflects the substance's primary 
  use as a denaturant [...]


I think they quietly stopped putting the bitter coating on switch carts two or so years after it launched, since there was a trend of people putting them in their mouth because they tasted bitter.

I haven't verified this myself, but I do remember the massive flood of youtube videos of people tasting them early on.


I don’t think they stopped. I bought a relatively new Switch game recently and (for science) checked the card, and it was in fact bitter.


Oh my! I just tried licking my Mario Kart Switch game ... it does taste really bitter, and the taste stayed in my mouth for a couple of minutes. It makes a really interesting prank.


I got this or something like it to try and discourage pets from chewing on power cables around the house

It didn't work, or you might say it worked too well. It managed to spread to pretty much every surface in the house. Cable touches floor, floor touches toy, toy touches hand, hand touches food, food is incredibly bitter

I'd expect to lose an order of magnitude of bitterness at each jump, but somehow it took over and lingered for about a year


They put this stuff in computer duster cans to discourage inhalant abuse, and it has caused me the same grief. Dust the keyboard, type on the keyboard, eat some food with my fingers - boom, gross.


Like denatured alcohol. It's just ethanol plus poison so you can't drink it and avoid paying taxes.

"the Anti-Saloon League persisted, arguing that legal alcohol had killed many more in its day than denatured alcohol would kill during the transition to a teetotaling world. “The Government is under no obligation to furnish the people with alcohol that is drinkable when the Constitution prohibits it,” said advocate Wayne B. Wheeler. “The person who drinks this industrial alcohol is a deliberate suicide… To root out a bad habit costs many lives and long years of effort…”"


I've always been super weirded out that we're willing to poison people for not paying their fair share of taxes. The extra abstraction layer seems to make people comfortable; if after your tax evasion trial you were found guilty and the judge walked up to you, put a funnel in your mouth, and force-fed you poison, society would be outraged. But if you structure it as a discount for buying poisonous alcohol, then it's perfectly fine. (Alcohol is an especially weird thing to tax, in my opinion. Take some sugar water. Leave it sitting around. Boom! Alcohol. Tax evader's dream.)

I haven't really kept up on what the opioid epidemic is up to, but I also think it's weird that we cut opioids with acetaminophen. You don't want people to overdose on "the good stuff", so we put something in it that destroys your liver? That seems a little cruel to me. Any cop can reverse an opioid overdose. Nobody can reverse an acetaminophen overdose. You just die. I guess "first, do no harm" is ambiguous and only applies to actual medical doctors, not necessarily bureaucrats?

Public policy can be weird at times. We should, as a society, poison people less.


In many countries (e.g in Europe) they don't - poison people that is, the usual formulation for the cheaper untaxed "denatured" alcohol isn't poisonous but it has Bitrex in it so that people won't drink it.

Well, I say it isn't poisonous, it's alcohol, alcohol is poisonous anyway, for much the reason you identified with paracetamol, the liver can't process more than a tiny amount and is seriously damaged if you use more, but people do.

Anyway, it's a sin tax. We tax things we want the population not to do, to discourage them, and because if they insist on doing them anyway even though they're a bad idea, why not collect money? In my country we tax petrol (gasoline), sugary drinks, booze, cigarettes, all above the normal levels because those things are a bad idea and it'd be better if you stopped.


Good a time as any to mention powered computer dusters. Got one a few years ago and it's already paid for itself many times over.


Before anyone like me gets excited about this, know that they are as loud as a jet engine.

Good in some situations, inappropriate in an office environment, wear hearing protection.


You can get cans without the bitterant, but at slightly higher prices... which incidentally makes a great refrigerant too.


Most dusters literally are 134a refrigerant.


They used to be (and thus a cheap way to recharge car A/C) but I believe they're mostly R152a now --- which is quite close in pressure/temperature characteristics to the old CFC R12.


Ah, my brain was out of date, you are right. And in fact the can at my desk says difluoroethane.


good to know! I ended up buying a ryobi battery-powered "high volume power inflator." I think it's meant for air mattresses, but it does a great job at dusting electronics.


I wonder if something can be so bitter that even if it loses orders of magnitude on its journey, it still maxes out your taste buds dynamic range.


Never though about my taste buds in terms of dynamic range but I will never think of them any other way again.

Reducing salt from your diet is like loudness management.


I began using this analogy after my brother spent years not eating anything sweet, and then found that chocolate below 90% cacao was overwhelmingly too sweet.

Lower the noise floor on taste and suddenly all kinds of subtle notes emerge.


Some fad diets like the "potato diet" are based on this principle, that if you reset your tasetbuds then foods with added sugar will taste too sweet, and you'll avoid them.

I experienced this with the Keto diet, which is low-carb and hence very low on sweeteners like sugar. It was about a year afterwards that I could eat normal chocolate, candy, or cake.


Same with coffee or tea. After a decade of drinking them without sugar or honey, I can't imagine drinking them any other way. Sugar would just ruin their taste.

Anyone that cries "I can't drink coffee black, it's too bitter!" they just haven't tried for more than a week, how long it takes to adjust.

Unless you drink instant coffee, which tastes very bitter and like battery acid. I'd rather have water than granulated instant coffee.


FWIW, people who say that are usually drinking burnt coffee that has sat on a heater for too long. Sugar doesn't take bitterness away; a tiny sprinkle of salt, however, does.

Really.

Some salt is absolutely crucial to flavor. A little bit makes almost everything taste better.


Weirdly enough I love instant black but don't have so much love of espresso.

I think I've come to associate it with comfort in rough times: it's bad, but we have hot water and instant coffee so the break is great.


That's even better lol.


It is, and it makes so many fast foods feel too salty


> discourage pets from chewing on power cables around the house

Apparently rodents eat some car cables. The cables should be coated in some kind of solidified bitter hot sauce. Bittrex and ghost peppers, perhaps.


I think birds for example don't register capsaicin. Point being, not all animals taste things the same or are affected negatively by the same things.


On the other hand, I wouldn't usually expect birds to gnaw on car cables, and all mammals do register capsaicin. Capsaicin is used semi-frequently to help against rodents gnawing on cables.


It's also used to produce suet cakes that squirrels and raccoons won't steal. Those things have a lot of it, too, enough so I wear nitrile gloves to handle them - worse even than mincing a handful of habaneros, you just can't wash the stuff off.


Do they still suffer the inflammation and other effects? Our eyeballs don't have taste buds but habanero juices will still disable you if they come into contact.


The burning sensation of "spicy" things is not mediated by "taste buds".

For more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemesthesis


Sorry but this is good sitcom-grade hilarity


Like the Seinfeld episode with the odor ridden car, but Bitrex and your house.


Years ago, we used canned air as freeze spray in the lab for preparing certain cultures.

I picked up a new case on my way in one day, and probably 20 minutes into using it, someone said "do you taste that?"

We ended up evacuating and later discovered the cause was an undisclosed bitterant added to the product. I sent 3M an invoice for the lab cleaning (they politely declined to pay), but the next time I saw the bottles, they had a big warning on them.


I noticed that after I moved from Nintendo Switch cartridges from a travel case back to their original cases that I really shouldn't lick my fingers.


I always found it interesting that Denatonium, one of the most bitter substances known, is structurally very similar to Lidocaine, a local anesthetic that would numb the taste buds. It's just another example of how a seemingly minor tweak to a structural formula can drastically alter the properties of a substance.


They look pretty different to me, but that is an interesting fact. It also seems that humans are a lot more sensitive to it than rats are.


In the wiki article, the section on synthesis describes how it’s made from lidocaine as starting point. Another name for it is actually “lidocaine benzylbenzoate”.

If you take a look again at the diagrams, you’ll notice that it’s almost exactly the same, except one of the N now has a benzene ring attached to it.


Pretty interesting too that lidocaine is pretty bitter too, though presumably nowhere near as powerful as bitrex.


I'm no chemist but the pictures on Wikipedia look nothing alike.


As a little kid I took the bad habit of biting my nails (I still do) so my parents brought home a specific product in a small bottle with brush containing a fluid that once brushed over my nails should have discouraged me from biting them. It was really bitter, but turned out I actually liked it and kept biting:) That was almost 50 years ago, so I guess the product was a different one.


Once, I was driving and discovered that my thumb had this mesmerizing flavor that I just could not place. After a couple miles, I remembered that I had used my thumb to cover the opening of a windshield wiper fluid bottle. Took a look at the bottle, and discovered the Bitrex brand, and the source of this mystery flavor. Glad to hear I'm not alone!


It's barely related, but that reminds me of Dimethyl sulfoxide [0]. Which tastes like garlic, if you get it on your skin. As-in, it'll soak through your skin, and get you your tastebuds pretty quickly via your blood. It's pretty bad, because it'll take any substance you have on your skin with it on its way in.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide


Huh, and now I know I was actually pretty good when using DMSO in the lab.


And now you love Amaro, right!?


This...is disturbingly accurate for my childhood and adult tastes. (Sibilia.)


Same thing happened to me. I didn't have a habit of it; I just used my teeth one time to pull a piece of torn fingernail that was catching on fabric, and my mother happened to see me and freaked out about it.

I still remember the taste of the nail paint and wondering who decided that this should be a commercial product. Did your bottle have a picture of a traffic light on it?


We used Bitrex for my oldest son when he was thumb sucking so much that he developed a callus that he still has fifteen years later.

It didn't work, he just powered on through the taste.


Apparently my parents used Tabasco sauce on me, though I doubt that would have worked if bitterant didn’t.


If you ever need to change your AirTag battery, do not buy Duracell ones, or any which advertise this anti-swallow bitter coating. The battery will simply not work at all, at least for an airtag. I then bought non-coated Energizer batteries, and the AirTag immediately worked again.

I understand that this is a preventative measure, but from a customer point of view that was just an awful experience. The battery had one job to do, and it failed to do it because of the bitterant coating.


How strange. Does the airtag have particularly weak spring tension pushing the electrodes into the battery?


Ha, this bit me a few weeks ago. Almost went back to the store with the Duracell batteries, thinking they were empty on arrival because none of them worked in any of my AirTags, until I found out the bittering agent was the problem.


You should be able to remove the coating with alcohol, works for me.


At first glance, I thought this was about bittrex.com, which I understand is especially bitter for many people.


Name your exchange after bitrex is a very clear warning, at least. What were they thinking?


I initially read "brexit". Ironically, the title still made some sense.


Used to (still kinda is) used by firefighters to test the seal on your SCBA mask. Put your mask on, put a hood on, spray Bitrex into the hood.

Though mostly now we test via computer and a pump and measure vacuums.


Aside: the name is virtually indistinguishable from Bittrex (https://global.bittrex.com) a crypto exchange.


That's what I thought this was, and thought they must have released a new product.


Random fact, it's been used in Switch cartridges to stop folks from putting them in their mouth.


I’ve tasted the cartridges, can confirm it’s horrible


From what I understand, there is significant variance in how bitter it is to different people. As an example, I can lick a switch cartridge and just get a slight tingly sensation, it's not particularly bitter or unpleasant. I have also tasted the denatured alcohol used in some decorative tabletop burners (mainly because, hey, it says 100% non toxic - can't be THAT Bad!). It had a similar tingly taste, and reminded me a bit of gin...


9 volt batteries are where the real action is.


Spicy electrons have a very interesting taste/sensation. I never found it to be painful or unpleasant… just weird. And yet I also never wanted to do it again.

Same with getting an accidental zap by 120VAC. Fuzzies. But no thanks.


Reminds me of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thioacetone

> In 1889, an attempt to distill the chemical in the German city of Freiburg was followed by cases of vomiting, nausea and unconsciousness in an area with a radius of 0.75 kilometres (0.47 mi) around the laboratory due to the smell.


NileRed - Making the stinkiest chemical known to man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmAG8-V_WQY


And a seemingly ongoing joke with those things seem to be that he doesn't consider those substances that bad, while his camera operator is retching despite being 10 meters further away.


I don't think it's a joke. He's either desensitised himself while making the compound, or knowing what it is has enough of a psychological effect to prevent much reaction. (I got the latter impression watching his video on making "metal-smell")

I think it smells worse with dilution too, as they noted in the video.


Watch batteries will essentially erode a child's esophogus if swallowed and stuck through a chemical reaction that dissolves tissue. This kills the child.

It's common to see watch batteries coated with a substance like this to dissuade toddlers from putting the watch battery in their mouth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ApVlDCEjc


Interesting. I saw it on some 2032s and figured it was for choking (similar to the Nintendo Switch carts).

Dissolving tissue sounds worse.


Can't be the only person who grew to associate anti-fingernail-biting taste with YAY BITING FINGERNAILS.


yeah my sister got to the point that she likes the taste of anti-fingernail biting liquid after she used it trying to break her anxiety induced habit. evidently the minor relief nail biting provided was enough of a positive reinforcement to begin associating the no-bite stuff with the releif, and now gives her some weird Pavlovian response.


Haha this was absolutely me. I thought I was the only one, but after reading several similar comment I guess that it is not an uncommon occurrence. Weird. I wonder what it tastes like to me know. Time to go lick Breath of the Wild


Bitrex website tells you remarkably little about the substance, Wikipedia to the rescue [1].

> Denatonium, usually available as denatonium benzoate (under trade names such as Denatrol, BITTERANT-b, BITTER+PLUS, Bitrex, Bitrix, and Aversion) and as denatonium saccharide (BITTERANT-s), is the most bitter chemical compound known, with bitterness thresholds of 0.05 ppm for the benzoate and 0.01 ppm for the saccharide. It was discovered in 1958 during research on local anesthetics by MacFarlan Smith of Edinburgh, Scotland, and registered under the trademark Bitrex.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium


BigClive tries it so we don't have to[1]. The taste test starts at 2:35, but, as ever, the whole thing is worth watching.

[1]https://youtu.be/ep2I3Gf3Sec


I wish they would go back to adding this to ethanol to make denatured alcohol for use as cooking fuel and solvent. Nowadays, when you buy denatured alcohol you're likely getting a witches brew of ethanol, methanol, MEK, MIBK, and acetone with an exact formula that is nearly impossible to pin down and changes all the time. Not optimal if you want something relatively non-toxic and want to know in advance exactly what it will and will not dissolve.


I just got in a little packet of this.

I am planning a surprise for the remaining moles? voles? in my yard. A portion of it is going into this huge jug of castor oil, which has also had a capsaicin product dubbed "The Toe of Satan" dissolving inside for a while now. I might add some blood meal. It's a shame I can't get some Dippel's Oil.

It should transform their olfactory environment into a hellscape of repulsion, dread, bitterness, and burning.


>Contact Bitrex

Head Office, Macfarlan Smith, 10 Wheatfield Road, Edinburgh, EH11 2QA, Scotland, United Kingdom

Well it would be the Scots that sell the bitterest substance in the world...


It's an interesting substance - shared some anecdote already some time ago here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30086522

My dad was an inventor of one of engineering processes for making Denatonium Benzoate, I lived with and around this substance for hmm 23 years :) You get used to bitterness.


NileRed did a video about this chemical.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GOw_I42eUpM


Am I the only one who thought this would be used for some “unconventional” cuisine before opening the link?


Oh lord that reminded me, when I was in India for a bit people kept trying to convince me to eat this horrible vegetable called bitter gourd, it just tastes like battery acid no matter how it was prepared!

I forgot all about that till I tasted a Switch cartridge, and then till I read your comment!

If you've ever tried Vegemite by the spoonful, the vegetable is a whole lot worse still.


I'm Chinese and I love bitter gourd. It's one of our staple vegetables and we have multiple cultivars of it for different levels of bitterness, crunchiness, etc.

Some dishes we often make: bitter gourd slices stir-fried with beef, shrimps, or scrambled egg.

Of course, I suppose Bitrex is a lot bitterer than the bitterest bitter gourd.


Oh interesting, could you recommend any dishes that use it well? There's quite a sizable Chinese population where I live, so I can probably find it prepared authentically enough :)

To be honest I never saw much effort going into preparing it. It was just sliced, hollowed out, and then fried. I'm not sure if there's a way to tone down the bitterness, but the only justification for its inclusion I got was "it's healthy" or "it's an antioxidant".


> I'm not sure if there's a way to tone down the bitterness

The bitterness is the whole point. It’s an acquired tasted, just like beer. Once you get used to it, you understand how it makes your meal as a whole feel less greasy and less cloying.

If your really want, you can tone down the bitterness by lightly dry-frying the bitter gourd slices.

The stir-fry with scrambled eggs is a home classic, Cantonese cooks can usually make it.

Black fermented soybeans is often added to the stir-fry with beef slices.

Bitter gourd can also be used to cook soup, with pork bones and soybeans.

It can also be hollowed out, filled with seasoned minced pork, and then steamed as a type of dim sum.


There is a cleaning product called "Stardrops" in the UK which has advertised itself as having this stuff included for decades - probably a big deal for them, since the logo used to be a smiley little falling star; obviously much more appealing to children than most cleaner fluid containers.


Sounds like they haven't met my friend's wife's lawyer.


pretty sure i pumped and dumped some coins on bitrex back in the day.




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