> ...if they keep their hands to themselves and make no unwanted advances, what exactly do you find indecent about this?
It's likely that they are bothered by heterosexual males who might have any situation or opportunity (among adults of similar age and agency) that can be perceived as advantageous to them or contributes to their happiness.
You're in a couple of these threads stanning for these creeps. As a mental exercise: why do you think several of the women are demoralized by this environment if there's nothing going wrong here?
Why do you think anyone, female or otherwise, being demoralized means something “wrong” is occurring? So silly to form a moral/ethical framework on something as intangible, fickle, and culturally influenced as people’s feelings.
Also, comments like “stanning for these creeps” are disrespectful and have no place on HN, imo.
> You're in a couple of these threads stanning for these creeps.
Well, how about you explain why you are equivocating "no unwanted advances" to "creeps".
I'm in a couple of these threads because a) I have some free time now to read, and b) there are way too many people demonizing males attempting to find a partner.
Like you are doing.
> As a mental exercise: why do you think several of the women are demoralized by this environment if there's nothing going wrong here?
Well, the women who are dating are specifically not complaining. Who are you to tell women where and when they may allow courtship?
Fortunately we don't have to speculate because the professor herself explains why:
> Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attractive women being offered tutoring sessions).
The more attractive women are receiving all the positive attention, and the others are hurt by this. Which is completely natural, but...welcome to the world. Life is unfair, and being attractive opens doors that aren't available to others. Are people obligated to show equal interest in everyone, regardless of their actual feelings towards them? Men who expect this from women are usually derided (and rightfully so) as "incels".
Because they are, in fact, decent, and find going to frat parties to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent, or hiring a prostitute, to be reprehensible. Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness, so what's a college student to do? They're not generally rich enough to garner the attention of women that way, and they're competing against a larg pool of older men who are.
You hit on a major point, that many don't realize or the more misandric minded purposely overlook. The vast majority of young heterosexual men (arguably 80% or so) simply do not have the same opportunities with the opposite sex, as do most young women in the reverse. This is a matter of both biology and society.
Young heterosexual men have to also compete with older men, who may be already established in terms of socioeconomic position, maturity, knowledge about women, and focus. These attributes, of what older men can bring to the table, can be very attractive to younger women and severely reduce their availability.
Young heterosexual women are often massively focused on and only have eyes for the top 20% to 10% who hit the genetic and/or socioeconomic lottery and mostly have it all in terms of looks, style, build, height, innate charisma, popularity, and/or family wealth. Even when such woman are in the lower rankings (though may refuse to acknowledge reality) and have little chance to realistically get or hold on to such men. Which by the way, can lead to them taking their anger and frustrations out on men not in those positions that don't engage in nor have the opportunities to act in such ways.
Many women, in general, are not even looking or care little about younger men who are not providing any obvious benefits or are as popular. The further the young men are from the top, the harder their struggles with the opposite sex can be. And dramatically way more so, than their female equivalents.
This can be why such young heterosexual men (outside the top 20%) can be resorting to seemingly extreme measures that are incomprehensible to females and non heterosexuals. More so, many women have little to zero sympathy or empathy for the harsh struggles of such young men, and even to the point that such women have misplaced or unreasonable disdain and contempt of males that need to or have to make such an effort. Which can be combined with the ignorance to the realities of the opposite sex, and the arrogance of their position, as women with an easier path in such particular matters.
Many women take attention, sexual choice, and sexual opportunity for granted. It's something they can choose to indulge in (particularly as young women), almost whenever they feel like or the mood hits them. These are options that most young men do not have whatsoever. Which is why some kind of app, doing auditing, or tutoring are even seen as helpful possibilities.
> to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent
Shouldn't we disallow girls from drinking alcohol, then? It's rather weird to allow parties with alcohol, and then claim that rape occured "because someone was drunk and so cannot be held responsible for their decisions".
What if the man was also drunk? If a drunk person can't be held responsible for their decisions, well...
I don't understand why is it always about guys supposedly taking advantage of girls.
The real source behind this statement was that Ok Cupid once published a blog post with some analysis of their data. They found that the average man on the platform was rated as bellow average attractiveness by woman while the average woman was ranked as average attractiveness by men. There were some more related stats in the same post.
This of course exploded and they deleted the post.
This one?[0] It's funny it's always cited with the reversed finding: while men were more fair in rating attractiveness, they then only target the top most attractive females, completely oblivious of where they stand. OTOH women were more harsh in rating but they are then able to shift their expectation to realistic ones. By these data dating only works if you are in the top X% of attractiveness if you are a woman, but it works better for the average man.
Nice shade. But if someone is able to meet people in-person and get dates from people in that top X%, then the conclusion that it's the online component of online dating that's at fault doesn't seem unwarranted.
Really? It sounds like some of them are lacking self awareness, and maybe representing themselves poorly. But is what they are doing really on the level of disturbing?
People need to learn how to interact with each other, possibly by failing like this. College is one of the places where that is supposed to happen.
If it's such a big deal, maybe we should just go back to separate schools for men and women.
If you happen to be an intelligent and decent young man from a male-dominated major who legitimately likes helping others who are struggling to learn the subject you're passionate about, how would women in your dating pool, who find those personality traits attractive, discover those things about you?
And, you will likely never get answers from the other side about how to do such, outside of: do nothing, consult zodiac sign, hope for magic, fate, luck, or a shoulder shrug response.
Maybe they would notice you help whoever asks for it, not just attractive women, and by contrast they would think, "Hey, he seems decent, not like those creeps that only have tutoring sessions for hotties."
And how would she notice if you weren't in her class? The chances are extremely low compared to if you joined her class and made an effort to socialize with her.
In this age group the ratio of <gender you prefer> who are not assessing dating partners based almost purely on physical attractiveness to those who are is tiny.
That being said, this is appalling, predatory behavior on the part of the students using the app. These are vulnerable people that the app users are taking advantage of and trying to manipulate into an intimate relationship.
> These are vulnerable people that the app users are taking advantage of and trying to manipulate into an intimate relationship.
Of course. Men should just stay alone, unless they are hyper attractive. Because _attempting_ to get to know other people is "manipulation into intimate relationship".
I guess they're cheating because they don't know their place? Predatory behavior, lol.
It comes off as very misplaced to categorize the app, by itself, as predatory and appalling. These are adult men and women. Why would it be such a surprise for intelligent young men in college to create an app to better determine the ratio of males to females in a class? This has long been done, by both sexes, way before convenient apps.
I'm sensing there would be no disdain or accusations of predatory behavior, if a female student created an app or openly expressed her intentions for picking classes where she is more likely to find dates and marriage prospects among the opposite sex or even the same sex.
I'm almost quite sure, the same appalled people, would have no reaction or even state this as acceptable or categorize her as being smart. It seems that if male heterosexual students, are doing something that would circumvent their supposed ranking based on innate attractiveness or better their odds in any artificial way, then it's something to be villainized and criminalized.
> why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?
Seems rather ingenious, frankly. What tactics should they rely on, exactly? "Intelligent and decent" alone aren't traits that are necessarily attractive anyway.
