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Ask HN: I'd like to learn how to tell stories better to friends
104 points by szemy2 on Jan 28, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 47 comments
Are there any courses that build storytelling skills, without a focus on a business purpose?

The only courses I found were aimed at being able to sell your business better; I'm only interested in storytelling for the sake of itself, with the only end goal of being satisfied in pleasurably conveying a story that has either happened or that is fictional.

Any reference/idea appreciated!




Story Structure by Dan Harmon (https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Dan_Harmon)

- https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_101:_Supe...

- https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_102:_Pure...

- https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_103:_Let%...

- https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_104:_The_...

- https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_105:_How_...

- https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_106:_Five...

Also this YouTube channel has great critique of storylines and character building of several TV series. The guy watches the entire series and explains what worked and what didn't: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUYr55OIJOjDgVtAeD9Vy...


Dan Harmon storytelling building is something incredible. I support this.

I'm game master/storyteller, and the best stories I built were on the fly thanks to this.

Strongly support to this answer.


Really great advice! He is fantastic, I didn't know these resources exist!


I am capable of telling good stories when I have a warmed up audience that is receptive to listening. But in day to day life I get nervous and tend to condense the story into one sentence because I don’t want to waste people’s time. For example:

My coworker Fred had no sense of privacy and he loved gossip. Sitting next to him wasn’t that bad though because I always knew what was going on in the office. He even checked my screen and used to read my email. Once he read it before I did and told me “hey our boss wants to talk to you” and when I got back asked me “did you get in trouble?” with a kind of eager look on his face. (Usually gets a laugh if I do the fred voice right)

Vs my normal hasty:

Oh yeah Fred he always read my email as soon as I got it, once he even told me the boss wanted to see me before I knew it. - which doesn’t have enough buildup for any potential punchline or Fred characterisation.

I think a lot of good storytelling is having the assertiveness to take up a significant amount of conversational bandwidth. Which can go wrong if you misjudge the audience or heirarchy (as I have many times).


Yeah good point. I don’t think condensing the stories is bad at all though. It is way worse to attempt some long anecdote on someone who is trying to catch a train.

The only thing that determines whether a story was “good” or not is how your audience responds to it. Reading them and the situation is way more important than having some amazing story ready to tell. Unfortunately that is a way harder skill to learn.

I have a friend who definitely has it. He can tell a story about some inane daily event that will entertain everyone infinitely more than another person recounting their life altering traveling experience.


Yeah with a conversation there is a kind of back and forth. It is not like the listener is a detached 3rd party judging the material like a standup comedy routine. Some people just have this ability to pull you in and make you laugh even if the story is mediocre. On the other hand I feel like I often deliver A+ material like the tax code.


My advice would be to practise making up small imaginative stories for everyday things you see around the house - how did the salt and pepper shakers meet?

By coming up with ideas on the spot you'll soon be able to "fill" stories with context to emphasise points. Getting the timeline for a story straight before you utter the first word is important too. Stories in chronological order are easiest to follow.

What did the doormat do in a previous life to deserve being walked over?

What did the cat first think of their new housemate, the dog? What did the cat think about the new food, or even the colour of the cat bowl?

How do door hinges feel with so much responsibility on their shoulders?

Has the house alarm ever had the urge to make a sound just to irritate the humans it's supposed to protect?


Have a look at Story Grid:

https://storygrid.com

There's a book. There's a free podcast with an extensive catalog. There are paid courses.

I suggest reading the book first to get the gist. The team behind Story Grid has really taken the original concept into some highly technical and fascinating directions. You can go as deep as you want, but they take it very deep.

Most importantly, there's a system for thinking about stories. What makes them work (or flop). What makes people pay attention (or tune out). The underlying conventions and structure all good stories share. How to learn from master works.

These lessons work not just for fiction, but non-fiction as well. It's a powerful mix of theory and practice that hash changed how I look at movies, TV series, fiction, and even news articles.


Great recommendation, thank you!


There is a fairly unknown (in my experience) but absolutely amazing podcast about storytelling called The Narrative Breakdown (https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-narrative-breakdown-story-...) . They cover many different aspects of what makes stories work or not work and apply their analyses to a variety of well known films. I highly recommend The Power of Irony episode if you're looking for a place to start.


Maybe do some improv. Impro by Keith Johnstone is also a good book if you just want some reading material. I also find the 'Every Frame a Painting' series on YT really good (e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GXv2C7vwX0)


Make videos of yourself. Don't stress it, don't try to be perfect or even good; just take a short video of yourself telling a short story. It may not be easy to do or to watch, but do it anyway.

Watch it, then make one improvement and do it again. Do it with a longer story. Rinse and repeat.


One overarching theme to remember as well...

What you say is much less important than what is heard.

A great, well constructed story delivered poorly is...a poor story.

So, use some of the other tips provided by others to get the mechanics of the story down, but take just as much time recording yourself telling a story, and then reviewing the audio. (Recording into a cell phone is more than adequate)

This is one thing that has helped me more than anything else...


https://themoth.org/stories

Join the group and see if you can tell your stories to the world. See their YouTube channels

Read this book: “how to tell a story” https://themoth.org/how-to-tell-a-story

Other idea is to join a local toastmasters group to boost your public speaking skills. One of the most underrated but the most life lasting skill.

Good luck!


Parental correction over the kitchen table helped some when I was a boy. But I gather that you are beyond that.

I suggest writing out stories, setting them aside, then coming back after a week or so to see how they read. You may be surprised at how little you like what you had written, and you may see ways that they can be improved.

Beyond that, read. Read history, read fiction, and don't just let it flow over you, watch what the writer is doing.


On top of all the excellent advice in other comments, consider this definition from Aaron Sorkin:

"In essence story is intention meets obstacle."

Simple yet powerful imho


A few thoughts: - oral storytelling works differently to some extent than written storytelling. Finding videos of good storytellers can help you get more of a feel for the medium - if you have any kids in your life, you can practice with them to get more comfortable with the process. Young children have a large appetite for listening to stories and you get plenty of immediate feedback on what they find funny and interesting, at least some of which will probably translate to an older audience - pastors and preachers tell a lot of stories in their sermons, so I wonder if there are any resources geared toward training pastors that would be relevant


I remember hearing a theory that consciousness is the PR agent of the body. It’s job is to rehearse and craft stories to explain the bodies actions so that it can maintain social standing.

It resonated with me because I feel like my brain is constantly trying to explain what I am doing in story form. For interesting events it usually can’t help but iterate around the event until it has created a little entertaining/impressive/endearing anecdote for me to use later.

I don’t have solid advice for the OP but it would be interesting if retelling events wasn’t something your brain prioritized. I seem to do it less as I get older.


Try to tell one story every time you talk to someone, and if you talk longer make sure to fit in as many as you. Tell about experiences in your life, stories from friends, funny things you have heard. Continue to expand them, bring variety and fun into them to make them interesting. It feels awkward at first, but eventually people get into it. They can be quick stories, or long ones. Just try to keep them coming... whenever a fragment of a memory, or an image of something related comes up, turn it into a story! Doesn't have to be fiction, sometimes the best stories are real lived experience.


Leave more out. We tend to overproduce detail because it seems relevant to us, but you need to think about the story from the audience's perspective. Your perspective within the story just becomes another character.


First, strip any story (especially when it's intended to be spoken) down to the bones to the point where it's as boring as diluted broth.

Then add back a bit of context for humour or engagement.

Here's a great story: "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, they run across each other by chance and are happy together." I know it's a great story because I've heard it so many times over the years and usually enjoy it.

"So there's this computer programmer running for the train. As she gets to the platform she sees the conductor blow his whistle and board the train. But this guy jams his bag into the door and she's able to scramble in..."

Already I'm interested because there's a programmer involved, and I've just missed a train before, and I already know the plot of the story but there's a nice reversal because the protagonist is female.

But put in just a little...less is more! Then when your friends like your story they'll be inspired to tell one back.

Oh, and when I say just a little, consider Checkov's gun. You'd better fire it.


This is solid advice! Which is often very hard to implement if someone doesn't know the mutual understanding of the world. I guess in this case know your audience works because it is your friends.


Someone mentioned improv which relates to comedy a bit. Maybe watching stand up specifically from an educational angle could be helpful as well? Just covering all bases here, other comments have also been good

Dave Chappelle and Amy Schumer are great at telling funny stories - to name a couple.

Edit: pardon the mobile link but this is a great comedic story telling example by a local to me comedian Rick Reynolds

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m3kjNwwrieM


Look at this course from Pixar on storytelling https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/pixar/storytelling


David Mamet said that a good story was like a joke: it has to be inevitable but surprising.

Aaron Sorkin said it's like a taut clothesline with two things: intention and obstacle. The intention is really big and the obstacle is really big. No such thing as an intention too strong or an obstacle too high. Once you have those two, you can hang anything on it.

The trick is in rephrasing it to be surprising. It's like adjusting a camera. You want it to show it at an angle where the intention seems impossible and the obstacle seems too big, and they're surprised by the actual ending.


Check out "The Art of Fiction: Notes on Craft for Young Writers" by John Gardner.

Later, try RPG games (Not WoTC/Hasbro D&D)(which apart from being crazy rn, it really got boring around 3.5E when it tried to copy World of Warcraft). There are plenty of games that are more about narrative building and storytelling than mini-max dice-fests and rules-lawyering.

I suggest "Blades in the Dark" for one, cus I'm currently playing it, but also it can be played solo, and if you can get a gaming group together, it's an easy sell by saying: "It's steampunk Peaky Blinders".


Bert Kreischer on storytelling:

https://youtu.be/h3PA-re8GeIx

https://youtu.be/DOZ0cLkXnhY


The best way to learn how to tell good stories is to read good stories!


I wish it were that easy! I’ve read a LOT of good stories but I’m terrible at telling them or writing them.


Yeah, I think exposure to good stories is probably necessary but not sufficient for becoming a good storyteller.


I have also been struggling with this, both in storytelling for my kids, and in trying to make interesting YouTube videos.

Lots of people on YouTube seem to recommend Save the Cat by Blake Snyder. My experience of it is that there's some useful ideas in it, but it's overly formulaic.


Watch standup and take note of how they setup their stories and then deliver the punchline. How they carry themselves on stage. You don’t want to be delivering a standup routine at a cocktail hour, but a lot of the same rules apply.


OD on standup comedy. Absorb their abilities. The good ones are all excellent at telling stories with brevity, humour and suspense. They can tell a story about tying their shoes and make it engaging and memorable.


Long story short by Margot Leitman is a story telling book by a comedian. I stumbled upon it trying to improve my business story telling and found it to benefit my personal story telling better.


Super! Purchased it on amazon. Is this a hands-on book?


I listened to the audiobook.


Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks is a great book. He goes into detail about where to get material for a story in your life and then also how to construct a story.

Watching him tell stories is also really inspring.


+1 for The Moth

https://themoth.org/how-to-tell-a-story


A big part of storytelling is listening and watching whom you're speaking with. Their reactions tell you a lot about how well you're doing.


Step 1; determine if they give a shit what you say or if they are just waiting until you're done talking to say their own thing.

Step 2: say it


There's now a lot of related discussion here, with more suggestions: https://hw.leftium.com/#/item/34576085


Practice makes perfect! Tell a lot of stories! Also read and listen to stories. Watch good storytellers and see what they do.

Find interesting angles to mundane ideas. I'll ask people "What did you do this weekend?" and they'll say, "I went to the store, saw a movie. What about you?" and my version will be "I was in the store parking lot, and I saw this awesome muscle car from the 60s, so I waited for the owner to come out, and the guy is a street car racer!" Most people just think of mundane things -- good storytellers find ways to spin those mundane things into something more interesting! Embellish things, exaggerate experiences. So yeah, the parking lot was full, but did you drive around for 5 minutes to find a spot, or did you drive around UNTIL THE HEAT DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE!?!? Leverage hyperbole and exaggeration.

Any time you get someone to smile, capitalize on it. Take note of what you said. Smile right back. Crack another joke. Find another part of the story to do the same thing you just did to get them to smile.

One thing good storytellers do is modulate their voices. Go to a church and listen to a preacher do his preaching. He'll start telling a story, and his voice will be normal. Then he'll get to a serious or important point and soften his voice, getting you to lean in a little bit. Then, once he knows he has your attention, he'll boom, "THE ARISTOCRATS" and your brain just eats that shit right up. Watch Penn from Penn & Teller, and he'll do this. Any good comedian does it. Watch any Shakespearean actor on stage. Voice modulation is key to a great story.

Think about how to build suspense to draw people in. Don't give the punch line or the plot twist right away, instead entice people to stay around and listen to your story. I have a ton of ideas. Thread -> (:) (click to see more)

Inject humor and physicality whenever possible, even if it's a sorta boring story. Remember, "I went to the store" is boring, but "I found myself standing in line at the cashier for the seventeenth time this month because my family hasn't discovered shopping lists yet" is funnier. Widen your eyes to act surprised, narrow them to act angry or tense. Practice facial expressions.

For one particular example, look at Hank Green on TikTok. He's engaging and funny and exciting. He's telling stories about himself, about science, about the world. Watch his facial expressions, listen to how he structures his videos. His excitement about just about anything is palpable. He's not the most attractive dude in the world, he's not the smartest guy ever, he's not even the funniest, but he leverages his own skills to tell compelling stories all the time. (His brother, John Green, is also a great storyteller, but in a totally different way. Worth checking out!)

But above all, practice, practice, practice.

Good luck!


Thank you for the detailed and practical comment! I think lot of your advice works well, after you have earned the space to tell the story with as much time as you need. One thing I struggle is how to not rush the story in a setting where conversation is fast paced.


Totally. I've found that there are three approaches to that. The first is that almost any conversation will slow down for a good story. If you get good at commanding the attention of folks in the conversation, and your stories are engaging, people will gladly stop and listen. Most conversation, IMO, is fairly dull. It's small talk, or it's someone ranting about something. When a good storyteller comes along, people will stop and gladly give up the cognitive load of having to carry a conversation, and instead let the storyteller take over. And people love it when they hear a good story that they can tell others later.

The second approach is to figure out the core of the story. If you have 30 seconds to make an elevator pitch, you pull the (alleged) Mark Twain, "baby shoes for sale; never worn" trick of using the fewest words in the most impactful way. Sometimes this is figuring out a quick set-up and pay-off one-two punch in the story.

This is harder, IMO, because it requires that you have thought significantly about your story before you tell it. But I've also found that the more you practice this, the easier it gets to tell a short version and a long version, depending on how the room reads and how the conversations go.

The third way is riskier, but effectively, you play the punch line first. "Once I sang karaoke with Kelly Clarkson at a diner in Mexico City" is a headline statement that makes people say "Wait, WHAT?!" If time is tight, they'll take that one statement and that's good enough to make you interesting. Conversation over. Move along.

But if there's more time or the conversation is able to slow down, you'll have the opportunity to expand it into that larger story. In short, grab their attention with an impactful but ultimately throwaway statement, then reel them in for the long version.


Maybe practice at the moths


Everyone here is giving you some generic advice about doing xyz principle to achieve maximal entertainment

The best way to tell a story to a friend is to make a story your friend wants to hear.

Know your friends, and amusing them should be pretty easy


There is an ad-hoc property of group settings: for eg. one persons absence might completely change the energy and topics in a friend circle. So it is not always easy to resist rushing stories but giving some authority through presentation style so people listen.




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