Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Always look down in London: Pavement oddities (londonist.com)
254 points by zeristor on Jan 14, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 106 comments



Other things to look out for:

- Every tube station has a "labyrinth" to find. https://art.tfl.gov.uk/labyrinth/about/

- Vehicles drive on the left hand side in the UK. Except at the entrance to the Savoy, where road markings make it clear they must drive on the right.

- We love roundabouts. Londonist has a nice article on some of the weird things you can find on some of them here: https://londonist.com/london/secret/the-strange-things-you-c...

- When using transport, the normal rule of thumb is that the underground will be quicker than a bus or even a taxi on many journeys, but sometimes walking beats even that. TfL has a tube map that helps you figure that out (check out Covent Garden to Leicester Square - a 90 second tube journey that takes at least 8-10 minutes due to the depth of the line): https://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-tube-map.pdf


London traffic lights are all equipped with PCATS — pedestrian countdown at traffic signal. It’s the timeout signal that shows how many seconds you have left to cross the road.

The implementation is very hacker friendly. The PCATS counter is literally bolted onto the side of the existing lights and learns the pattern of the system to which it is attached by monitoring its behavior. There is basically all but an air gap between the counter and the lights themselves, and the counter is making an informed guess. They start their installation-lives having no idea how much time will be left.

As such, each counter is equipped with a 4 bit error display to indicate its status — out of sync, could not sync, faulty lights, etc. Keep your eyes peeled for little LEDs telling you something about the internal status of the system.

Example: https://uk.yunextraffic.com/portfolio/traffic-signal-control...

Error codes shown here, on page 7: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/PCaTS-Note-4-Technical-Specificat...


Another cool feature of of pedestrian crossings (and I think this applies to the whole UK) is the accessibility aids. We're all used to beeping traffic signals, but did you know that on the underside of the control box there is a tactile cone that rotates when the green signal is active?

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/pedestrian-facilities-b...


> We love roundabouts

“Look kids, there’s Big Ben! Parliament!”

National Lampoon's European Vacation (1985):

https://youtu.be/iAgX6qlJEMc


I don't know why this scene is so memorable. My older brother and I last saw this movie 30 years ago and we still remember and laugh about this scene when we think of London.


Chevy Chase's laugh/cry moments of utter hysteria and derangement have always made me laugh at/with those scenes even more so as I've gotten older as I can totally relate.


> We love roundabouts

Context for our American friends. This isn't specific to London. Everywhere I've lived in Europe is more roundabout-heavy than the USA. Because, you know, they're objectively superior ;-)


They are also spreading in the USA. New Jersey has had them for quite a long time, and is building more. I've been surprised to see them as an apparent new default for new intersections in central Wisconsin where my wife's family is from. There are even some new ones being added around Santa Fe where I live.


Yes, I agree both that they are objectively superior and that happily they are spreading!

At first I would see people treat them like a slight curve in the road and blow through them, but we seem to have figured them out now


The ones in Indianapolis suck because heavy traffic flows can blow through as a train, completely blocking entry from other directions.


Any SF-based Adobe employee will attest to the novelty of working next to The City’s only rotary.


Many of the ones popping up in San Francisco at 4-way intersections RETAIN four stop signs ... <facepalm>


The ones I've seen are really more of a half-hearted traffic-calming measure than proper roundabouts. The intersections I can think of, they're in residential neighborhoods and there's just some new island in the middle of a four-way stop. It might be impossible to widen these into proper roundabouts due to the houses up to the property lines?


Placing new STOP signs in the UK required written permission from the secretary of state until some years ago. They're still quite uncommon here, typically reserved for more risky junctions.

We most commonly use the "Give Way" sign at junctions instead, indicating that other traffic has priority.


New England sits back smugly with our rotaries and judges you all. Politely--but we do.


>objectively superior*

*Given that the roundabout is fed by single-lane streets with low traffic and excellent visibility and no stop signs before entry, which would otherwise negate the advantage of quicker entry.


Single-lane roundabouts aren't very uncommon in America. Maybe not as common as in the UK, but they're definitely around and virtually every driver in America should be familiar with them. There will always be a few fools who don't grok them, but the same can be said for any aspect of driving.

I think when Americans say they're baffled by UK roundabouts, they're almost always talking about the huge multi-lane roundabouts. Those, to me, are nightmare fuel.


not just multi lane, multi-roundabout multi-lane roundabouts, some with patial or alternating clock rotation patterns, exist there as well.

famously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29...


My French relatives are always impressed with the (mostly) civil behavior at 4 way stop signs in California and claim they would never work in France. It’s funny to me because every time they visit, they comment on them. I left France too young to know if they are right though.


How do they work in California?

I think what your relatives mean is that if everyone has a stop then it'll be messy because everyone will try to go first after they have stopped...

Here in the UK they have installed 2 stops and 2 give ways at a nearby crossing and it's already quite dangerous because no-one is sure what to do: those with give-ways think they should go before those with stops, those with stops think they should go first if they arrived first... honking ensues very often. If you're lucky it ends in a very British "you go first, no you go first" contest, which is not very practical, either.


> How do they work in California?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw-nvo4BzOM


you stop and go in the order you arrived to the stop line.


That sounds dangerous. It’s not uncommon for different people to order events differently, I can see two cars crossing at the same time, each driver convinced to be first.


It does lead to quite a few 'what the f.. arms up.. stares' when there is a perceived violation but it works. Probably because the cars within the stop signs are going relatively slow.


If two people arrival at the same time, the person on the right gets right of way.

It works fine most of the time and 4-way stops are usually only used in city streets where the speed limit is 40-50 km/h.

They are dangerous if used on more rural roads where people aren't expecting they have to stop or misjudge right of way.


given that people generally don't spin their tires off the line from a stop sign, it's fairly safe. If it's obvious that two people are going at the same time then one that has advanced less far in that time will generally ease off the throttle and let the more advanced party continue.

there are accidents, of course, but i'm not sure of any 4 way traffic junction that's infallible.

and as others stated, right-of-way rules are observed atop the social norms.


For near-simultaneous arrivals the right of way goes to the driver on the right.


Specification unclear. If two or more entries to the intersection have at stopped vehicle waiting to cross, a waiting vehicle is somewhere "on the right" of each waiting vehicle. If only two vehicles are present, and are across from each other, and at least one of them wants to turn across the path of the other, each vehicle is _equally_ "on the right". A relative reference is not sufficient.

Some people try clock-relative turns, but that only works if the vehicles arrived while an existing rotation (of prior vehicles) was in progress.


Europe is definitely heavier on environmental design to enforce behaviours rather than signs, as nobody will obey a sign if they can get away with it.


I think most people obey 4-way stop-sign intersections because they're afraid of getting T-boned by another car, not because they obey signs for the sake of obeying signs. People ignore signs when they can get away with it, but a 4-way stop-sign intersection is not such a case to anybody but the suicidally reckless.


They are increasingly common in new developments in the US, but no one is spending money to retrofit old intersections (rightly so I think)


The ~dozen or so roundabouts near where I live (northern suburb of Atlanta, Georgia) have all been 4-way stop retrofits. And all in the last 10 years or so.


LA and southern California could use some roundabouts. There's so many places with stop lights almost stacked on each other.


No one except beautiful Portland, Maine. And probably loads of other towns in New England.


Carmel, Indiana has been retrofitting extensively.


Just got a new one near our house. Greater Los Angeles. My wife, an Aussie, is delighted.


They do take a huge amount of space, unfortunately.


> Vehicles drive on the left hand side in the UK. Except at the entrance to the Savoy, where road markings make it clear they must drive on the right.

Similarly on Palatino bridge (Ponte Palatino) in Rome, vehicles drive on the left side.



The Savoy entrance on Google Maps, in case anyone else is curious.

Does anyone know why they have drivers enter on the right instead of the left? Does it make valet parking faster or something?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5106158,-0.1210778,3a,17.4y,...


It makes it easier for the driver/chauffeur to get out and open the passenger's (rear, driver-side) door.


That may be true, but it's not quite that.

In Savoy Court, vehicles are required to drive on the right. This is said to date from the days of the hackney carriage when a cab driver would reach his arm out of the driver's door window to open the passenger's door (which opened backwards and had the handle at the front), without having to get out of the cab himself. Additionally, the hotel entrance's small roundabout meant that vehicles needed a turning circle of 25 feet (7.6 m) to navigate it. This is still the legally required turning circle for all London cabs.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy_Hotel#Savoy_Court


Hackney carriages still exist. And a great deal of them made the move to electric. That's just another name for car for hire or taxi.

That was a til for me too, i though that means the shape of the vehicle.


> That's just another name for car for hire or taxi.

There's a legal distinction between taxis and hackneys. Taxis can be taken from a taxi rank or flagged down, but hackneys must be called to collect you. I'm sure there was a reason for the distinction at some point, but it remains.


A hackney cab is a type of taxi (one used in london), and can be hailed. A mini cab must be pre booked, like Uber or Addison Lee.


The distinction is usually to avoid lots of drivers milling about for riders and causing congestion for everybody else.


Oh yes, I've seen those labyrinths! There's one right next to the elevator at Holloway road station, and I just end up ogling at while waiting for the lift to arrive. It's great!


The 'Wood-block paving' I know of as wooden cobbles. Iron-shod horses apparently made a lot of noise on stone and IIRC experiments were done to reduce this, the best results being from using wood not stone for cobbling. So it was a noise reduction thing in essence.

One of my locals is a coaching inn that goes back centuries. Where the coaches would have entered is covered by the building above and under that, where people now sit and drink, there are still wooden cobbles. I doubt they're from the original horse-time (which is only a century ago, or less), but there they are.


My favourite feature when looking down in London (as a foreigner who has only visited a few times, briefly)...

The Stanton Warrior drain cover: https://www.google.com/search?q=stanton+warrior+drain+cover&...

They were produced by Stanton Ironworks in Derbyshire, which closed in 2007 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilkeston#Stanton_Ironworks.

Many of them must have been replaced with a different brand since then as I noticed fewer had the Stanton Warrior brand when I was last in London in 2019.

The British electronic music producers The Stanton Warriors took their name from these covers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_Warriors.

(Also, at adds with the old Google interview brain-teaser, "Why are manhole covers round?" - they're rectangular. So I guess it they don't care so much if these ones fall in the hole, probably because they're not holes that workers go down into).


Manhole covers are round if they cover a pipe and square if they cover a brick built manhole.

Your note about them not falling in makes me wonder if Google had a different answer?


> Manhole covers are round if they cover a pipe and square if they cover a brick built manhole

This is inaccurate as a generalization - in the three jurisdictions I've worked in, they're round if they're newer than ~1990, and mix of round and square (or two triangles that go together to make a square) if they're older than that. The frame and cover are replaced independently from the MH structure itself so the cover doesn't tell you anything about the makeup of the structure.


Not quite true. The cover itself has to be supported by a structure. The frame itself is insufficient. If you put a round cover on a square hole it would cave in if a truck ran over it.


Catch basins in my jurisdiction have round covers on a square structure. The cast iron frame is square with a circular hole in the top.

Edit: for example https://maps.app.goo.gl/m8rR4vrPHBPTyXxo9


> Your note about them not falling in makes me wonder if Google had a different answer?

It's the kind of question that's asked in interviews because it has several answers and a good candidate should be able to think it through and suggest a reasonable number of them and demonstrate their ability to creatively think through a problem. That round covers can't fall in seems one of the simplest and most important, given that a cover that falls in could kill or seriously injure a worker.

https://www.livescience.com/32441-why-are-manhole-covers-rou...


Also grime artist Newham Generals were named after the hospital.


Also recommend this in Tokyo!

Great artwork and interesting stuff with many remaining ones effectively unique as they were put in by a particular locality for a time and then others have been removed.


People from Berlin are used to look down all the time in order to avoid dog shit on the pavement.

When I was looking for an appartment in Berlin, at one viewing appointment there were about 20 other people interested in the same appartment. It was quite nice, but there was an insufferable stink everywhere inside that appartment. After we left I noticed that I had stepped into dog poop before and the reason for the smell was the dog shit stuck to my shoe. I applied and surprisingly there were almost no other applications, so I got accepted. The appartment never smelled that bad again :)


I'll be keeping this in the back of my mind, just in case. /s


The hydraulic power utility is fascinating - the sheer amount of water lost via leaks from water piping in this century is huge, and so keeping a high pressure system running back then must have been tremendously difficult. Especially given a similar sized leak will have a much larger impact in a higher pressure system.


I recall reading that during aome street works in the circa 1990s they discovered some 16th Century (?) wooden drinking water piping still in use...

The development of the water supply and sewerage in London is super interesting. See e.g. The New River Company and also The Great Stink.


My wife did some work at a municipal water utility and they did find some wooden pipes in service in the early 2000s. The active ones are all gone, but they still find buried ones, especially around an old reservoir that was in the downtown area.


On the other hand, a leaking high-pressure pipe is extremely noticeable [1], so any damage was probably fixed asap instead of being neglected for ages.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_York_City_steam_explo...


This is my favourite ‘always look down in London’ https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-buried-remains-of-li... - an old road running well below street level but visible through a grate


Thought it was going to say because the councils have no funding and our roads/pavements are so battered that you’ll likely fall over and break your ankle if you’re not careful.


Check Ben Wilson's chewing gum art on the Millennium Bridge as well. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=millenniu...


And dotted around the rest of London too! A lovely man, Muswell Hill legend.


Victory against fatbergs is impossible in the near term. As cities mature, and the use of flushable wipes becomes more accepted, fatbergs will appear in UK and the colonies.


It's trivial to stop the fatbergs caused due to flushable wipes if city administrations spend a few minutes thinking about why people use flushable wipes instead of spending time and money in celebrity campaigns [1] against them.

The conclusion is obvious – wiping with dry toilet paper is an inefficient, unhygienic, and sometimes painful way of cleaning yourself after defecation. Hence, people use wet wipes to "feel fresher", as the advertisements euphemistically put it.

The solution is also quite straightforward – go all the way and replace most uses of toilet paper with bidets or washlets, following the lead of smart nations like Japan. Wet wipe usage will automatically plummet. City planners all over the world should be running campaigns promoting bidet usage and partnering with washlet companies instead of sternly wagging their fingers at wet wipe users.

----------------------------------------

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/14/andy-serkis-p...


We’re way past talking anuses; we’re in class-action lawsuit territory against being able to market the term “flushable”.

The buyers and users of wipes are changing diapers on little kids and old people, not on-the-go busy professionals. The immense concentrations in sewers are not correlated with office worker productivity. Wipes are convenient to do that in public. Only a few countries have enough trash cans nearby for the occasion.

So, if someone is going to market the term flushable, I want them to be responsible for plumbing fiascos when it is.


I agree with your solution. However, changing such an ingrained habit isn't trivial at the society scale.


A very easy, reasonable step would be to heavily tax wipes which made claims like "flushable", but failed to disintegrate (as toilet paper does) in the sewer.


Barnmead Road ( https://goo.gl/maps/uGXKSum8azGJLbU29 ) has particularly terrible roads and pavements. It's actually deliberate, because it's a conservation area.


This isn't about being in a conservation area but rather the road being unadopted and therefore not maintained by the council. Beckenham is full of them.

https://www.barkergotelee.co.uk/who-is-responsible-for-maint....


https://assets.ctfassets.net/vval1fkv4s9j/L8XTFNyvaSewQWSMOw...

> Some 19th century street furniture also remains, enabling the road to present an excellent understanding of the appearance of many residential areas in the era of horse transport. The council will promote the retention of the original street surfacing and furniture in the conservation area.


I stand corrected. There are still various other roads in Beckenham that are not inside a conservation area that are unadopted (and consequently in an absolute state).


Croydon has a bunch too. A friend was showing me around there a while ago and at one point we were walking down a wide road with no pavements, large-ish semi-detached houses on each side with decent front gardens.

Was something I normally expected in upmarket rural areas and traditional villages.


I lived in Beckenham right next to such a road and it was absolutely ridiculous. Cabs refused to drive on it because the potholes were so bad.


Great article. Made me search for cool stats about manhole. Apparently there's a site dedicated only for manhole from around the world

https://manhole.co.il/


Really cool project, bookmarked.

For those interested, for Bucharest there's this [1] blog-post with a few photos of some old manholes. In here [2] there's a list of links from the same project to posts that present some old stuff from and around Bucharest (the text is in Romanian, but there are lots and lots of photos that are self-explanatory).

[1] https://www.simplybucharest.ro/?p=36671

[2] https://www.simplybucharest.ro/?page_id=12112


I've been taking pictures of manhole covers for around 10 years now. Well, manhole covers, drainage gates, square access covers, and so on.

Locally, the challenge is an interesting, somewhat artistic, usually (but not always) urban picture. I've already taken a picture of most designs I see, after all. In any other city, I'm catching the design first. (Tromsø, Norway has a reindeer!)

I'm not all that surprised there is a website to catalogue them and am always kind of happy to be reminded that others have the same fascination.


Made me think of this Berlin based artist: https://raubdruckerin.de/

She uses manhole covers to create prints, "Raubdruck" means "pirated edition" but literally it's "stolen print"


Not much love for Mr Benn, I just though an episode might explain:

https://youtu.be/R3XVJ17uysM


I genuinely read the title as "always look down on London" and my French mind was as vindicated as it was puzzled by it. The article however is much more interesting and full of those little things that make living in old and beautiful cities worth it. In Paris I found that looking at walls (and decorations), street layouts and names, could offer similar journeys.


In Athens, Greece my favorite example of this is where you walk over the ancient city walls.

There is a section of wall revealed by a dig in Kotzia square[1]. The nearby paving traces the walls, and further on the National Bank is raised up so you can see the wall continuing on.[2]

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9818329,23.7288448,120m/data... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Acharnian+Gates/@37.980860...


Just looking at the first item I absolutely now have to share the amazing "Rivers of London" series of novels, comics and even a TTRPG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Grant_(book_series)


There are markers on pavements where it crosses the Greenwich Prime Meridian line. Got one right outside my house.

https://goo.gl/maps/d3pAJqGTJS1W4agT9


What are the weird bell-shaped things you find on the curb?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5073443,-0.1227047,3a,75y,82...

I've seen them in many places, can't think of what they're for.


Originally to push any HGV trailers back onto the road if they cut the corner [0]. They also work really well at beaching drivers looking at their phones who would have otherwise mounted the pavement.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FiV023ktLM


Here, HGV is probably "heavy goods vehicle" [1]. TIL etc.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle


To stop vehicles driving over them. Often on corners[1] to stop HGVs cutting the corner off and driving the back end over the pavement.

[1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4860115,-0.102246,0a,42.9y,1...


Keeping cars to the road, they're just bollards essentially as far as I know - just more decorative.


Bell bollards- they aren’t just more handsome - they are also what’s used when normal bollards aren’t enough, they are able to stop heavier vehicles and far more resistant to damage.

They are especially good at stopping trucks cutting corners and enforcing width restrictions.


They're normally on the corners of junctions, I always assumed they were to stop vehicles turning too sharply and cutting over the pavement.

Occasionally have seen a car stuck on top of one :)


I unironically recommend following the World Bollard Association if you enjoy seeing these at work.


Probably just to prevent cars from driving over that area.


One could accompany this with the track "Looking Down on London" by the perfect pop band Komputer from their 90s album The World Of Tomorrow, if one liked Kraftwerk inspired electronica.

It's not really about the same thing, just similar sounding titles, and a nice excuse to mention one of my old favorite albums!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAk4D3Lszdo


Don't forget to look for the pieces of gum that have been painted everywhere. https://theculturetrip.com/europe/united-kingdom/england/lon....


I have a hobby of posting these sorts of things around Santa Barbara while out running: https://www.instagram.com/santabarbaradetails/

Most are survey markers, contractor stamps, road names, etc...


This is awesome! Didn't make it to London this past year, but everywhere from Paris to Barcelona to Istanbul had space invaders painted on houses. But i guess it doesn't count as "look down"


I’ve seen space invader mosaics on walls in London


These are done by an artist that goes by Invader. They’re in a lot of cities.


I always look down when walking just for one reason, dog shit (if lucky).


The "<--LOOK RIGHT" painting is genius. For person who only had one job, they took it to 11. Could be shocked if most people who see that note don't look both ways...


Nice to see Harrow in there. The wavy double yellow lines are down the corner from where I live and I always thought they would be a common thing…


And because the pavements are almost always uneven and made with many stones/pavers rather than poured asphalt or concrete.


And most importantly, because the streets are very slippery and the people look unhappy regardless.




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: