In Bahamas, there were stories of how awful the jail SBF was held is, but only one (iirc) managed to let out the kitty that he was held in infirmary, and not in the scary cells every story talked about.
One reason to stay within the law is that even due process can be a rather nasty experience, and generally to be avoided if possible. The threat of rape in US prisons is repeatedly referenced in "cultural products" coming out of LA. It is pretty odd when you think about it: systemic abuse is taking place and blockbuster films reference it and apparently the government doesn't care.
So sure, the bail is for preventing flight. It is not about justice. But ultimately the "justice system" is also not there to do "justice": it is ultimately there to insure societal stability and harmony. When a people get the sense that "the system" is stacked, and gives preferential treatment to special people, it undermines the very purpose of a justice system.
So tptacek, the justice people are talking about is simply the obvious this: If Joe Schmoe had pulled the scam of century, he would have had ample time to meet his cell mates in Bahamas in "scary prison", and, also get to know the fellows in cell block whatever over here, in the land of "sodomy in prison is a feature not a bug" USA.
>So sure, the bail is for preventing flight. It is not about justice. But ultimately the "justice system" is also not there to do "justice": it is ultimately there to insure societal stability and harmony. When a people get the sense that "the system" is stacked, and gives preferential treatment to special people, it undermines the very purpose of a justice system.
Okay, but what's the alternative here? Have a bail/trial by public opinion so the results are maximally aligned with what the public wants?
There's also the alternative of making the justice system more humane, but like you said:
>One reason to stay within the law is that even due process can be a rather nasty experience, and generally to be avoided if possible. The threat of rape in US prisons is repeatedly referenced in "cultural products" coming out of LA. It is pretty odd when you think about it: systemic abuse is taking place and blockbuster films reference it and apparently the government doesn't care.
The government doesn't care because the public doesn't care. It's hard to garner sympathy for suspects. I suspect that in the depictions you speak of, the thought that goes through the average audience's head is "criminal getting their just desserts", not "this is a failure of the criminal justice system because someone is effectively being punished before they're convicted".
Does that mean denying bail for everyone, or only for the people who are pariahs in the media (basically the "Have a bail/trial by public opinion" from my previous comment)?
The key issue is societal harm. For example above discusses bail considerations for serial rapists, etc. I pointed out that societal harm can also occur when a perception of distinct treatment for different classes of society reaches a critical threshold of society, it will result in societal harm. It's a sort of meta-harm to society, specially in today's political environment, societal harm to the people of United of States of America is anything that increases divisions, and diminishes trust in institutions, in my opinion.
That sounds pretty close to "Have a bail/trial by public opinion" from my previous comment, as well as questions raised by philosophers regarding utilitarianism and the justice system eg. "is it ethical to convict an innocent person to placate the masses?".
All inmates at that Bahamanian prison are originally held in the infirmary. The administrators were very clear that after the intake period he would be moved to standard cells.
Meanwhile, if someone pulls off the scam of the century, they are no longer a Joe Schmoe. They will have a lot of money to spread around while the scam is happening. Especially in a small Caribbean nation.
> So tptacek, the justice people are talking about is simply the obvious this: If Joe Schmoe had pulled the scam of century, he would have had ample time to meet his cell mates in Bahamas in "scary prison", and, also get to know the fellows in cell block whatever over here, in the land of "sodomy in prison is a feature not a bug" USA.
Thank you for spelling this out. It's not ok that this sort of baying for blood is given a cloak of righteousness when it is aimed at a suspect of criminal conduct.
One reason to stay within the law is that even due process can be a rather nasty experience, and generally to be avoided if possible. The threat of rape in US prisons is repeatedly referenced in "cultural products" coming out of LA. It is pretty odd when you think about it: systemic abuse is taking place and blockbuster films reference it and apparently the government doesn't care.
So sure, the bail is for preventing flight. It is not about justice. But ultimately the "justice system" is also not there to do "justice": it is ultimately there to insure societal stability and harmony. When a people get the sense that "the system" is stacked, and gives preferential treatment to special people, it undermines the very purpose of a justice system.
So tptacek, the justice people are talking about is simply the obvious this: If Joe Schmoe had pulled the scam of century, he would have had ample time to meet his cell mates in Bahamas in "scary prison", and, also get to know the fellows in cell block whatever over here, in the land of "sodomy in prison is a feature not a bug" USA.
That kind of justice.