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Improve your turning (calgary.ca)
44 points by pfoof on Nov 23, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 54 comments



People are asking if this kind of information is useful at all, because it does seem to be stating the obvious. However, as a coach, I’ve found that a lot of kids don’t move well.

Probably a third to half of twelve year olds have very easily correctable errors in “obvious” movement patterns. But you have to know what to look for and you have to know the right movement. Even adults make movements that are “wrong” and can be corrected with just a little coaching.

I’ve also seen videos (that were very useful) on how to teach young people how to run, or how to go from stop to sprint. This is one of those things where having the mechanics broken down to small steps is very helpful for an amateur coach so that we can help children improve their movements. With that said it’s also hard for an amateur to be able to distinguish between good advice and bad.


Once in a while one of the FAANG is sending out AI agents to learn "the internet". Eventually they will find this website, learn how to turn and will never act like a human being. My question is now: is that a honeypot for AI?


It is to make sure they will never pass the turning test.


I always think about what content could be about when the title is vague - improve your wood turning? Your car turning? Bike turning?

But I never imagined it to be merely about turning as you walk.

Wouldn't it just be better to play a sport or do an activity that required turning? Cutting in basketball, soccer, or ultimate. Chasing a hit in tennis or other racquet sports. Etc.


> Wouldn't it just be better to play a sport or do an activity that required turning?

I would suggest Tag. Maybe is not good for learning, but if you survive, you're definitively good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-YwTh7ZWgE&ab_channel=Vocat...


"just be better" -- no, that's improving a skill that you already have.

This is a formal lesson in a skill that most people have never been taught.

Nearly every human behavior needs to be learned. Not every behavior is taught.


It's not "just be better". It's putting yourself into an environment where you can learn intuitively, instead of doing some kind of academic exercise on the matter.


Help!! I watched the video, thought about it too much and now I can't remember how to walk


That will be $200 the minute. :p


You all can laugh, but this has been a standard beginner running back drill since football was a thing [1].

I am not a biomechanics expert, or a football coach. But I still remember this explanation from when I played as a kid, and this drill. I'm 41 now, and still use the cut turn when I play pickup soccer occasionally (though not as well as I did as a young man).

Planting with the outside foot allows for more lateral movement at higher speeds, less risk of slippage, and requires less balance than planting with your inside foot. It also allows you to fake the turn via a fake plant (deadleg) and execute a more advanced jump cut (instead of pushing to land, you plant the other foot beside the lead leg, shift your weight to your toes, transfer weight to one foot, and push off that foot for even faster forward deceleration and more lateral acceleration in the chosen direction).

The natural way to make a turn at high speed involves many short choppy steps to slow enough to make the turn. This is inefficient, and alerts a defender the turn is imminent.

Turning this way is a basic fundamental that leads to more advanced concepts. We drilled with a coach, cones marking a space one to two yards in front of and a half yard on either side of a tackling dummy. It's also drilled as a series of alternating cones or bags in a stairstep pattern in a particular direction.

In our old drill, the player sprints directly at the dummy and the coach indicates left or right once the player reaches the cones. The player must plant with the correct foot, miss the dummy, and move at least as far laterally as the cone is from the dummy with enough balance to accelerate upfield after the turn is complete. Usually, it's accompanied by changing hands with the ball away from the dummy to prevent fumbles.

It is not an innate talent that cannot be taught. It is not natural to change direction in a full sprint in this manner. It does require great lower body strength, balance, and reaction time. And drilling this at a young age helps to develop the necessary skills and strength until it seems innate.

1: https://youtu.be/g9V6Rf6xPNg


I actually find this post inspiring. I've spend my whole life walking without thinking about it. And it wasn't obvious to me at all that I can turn right by pivoting with right leg at all. I mean I intellectual understand I could, but I don't consciously remember myself doing it. How many things are there that are "obvious" without us knowing? How can I identify if my children are walking properly, for instance, if I don't have a mental model of what "correct walking" looks like.

Similar can be said about breathing. Breathing with chest or abdomen can make quite a difference.


As an offensive lineman, hours of my life have been devoted to proper footwork for pulling (when a lineman doesn’t block straight ahead, but turns to the side.) Old school coaches love fundamentals.


I'm just imagining some of these comments when said to some of my old coaches and the wind sprints that would follow.


Can confirm, I have seen kids show up to first football practice at age 6 who don't seem to have run a full meter up to that point. Conversations like this happen a lot:

"So, Alice, can we try this one more time? Only now try to kind of jump forward the same distance with both legs, but one leg at the time. And the feet should be roughly in the direction you want to go to. Ok, go!"


If you've had serious knee injury, turning like in the first video is a guaranteed pain for the rest of your day in your knee. It puts compression and torsion in your knee at the same time, like grinding up herbs on a cooking show.


Snowboarding is apparently great at doing that, with your feet facing one way and your upper body in another, with some compression thrown in. Less risk breaking something, there Skiing is much worse, but good to cause general wear and tear.

Torsion and compression are a great way to ruin joints so.


You mean torsion and compression at the same time? Because compression on its own doesn't ruin joints afaik (it was long claimed it did).


Both at the same time, long term compression wears down the nodules (the stuff covering the bones to prevent bone on bone contact in joints) so.

Source: My Orthodontist after looking at my right knee (nodules) and left one (ligaments and torsion / compression at the same time)

Edit: Orthopedist, not dentist! What was I thinking!


> "the stuff covering the bones to prevent bone on bone contact in joints"

that's a meniscus, and coats the articulating surfaces (called condyles). synovial fluid in the joint capsule acts as a lubricant for the menisci.

a nodule is a lump.


I'm curious why your orthodontist was looking at your knees in the first place...


Back when I had one of those -dontists, my knees were still good!


> If you've had serious knee injury, turning like in the first video is a guaranteed pain for the rest of your day in your knee. It puts compression and torsion in your knee at the same time,

Yes, yes, totally agree…

> like grinding up herbs on a cooking show.

Wut???


Is this even turning-complete?


I've come to appreciate body-awareness as I've gotten older. I suppose it's a bit of a chicken-egg scenario for "nerds" (humor me here), where somewhat poorer motor skills turns into a dismissal of development in that area in general. I guess nothing beats the natural wirings but I think even the more reflexive kind of body-awareness can serve one well, in terms of health but also just the simple well-being of grace and aesthetics.


These instructional videos seem very "academic".

Why not just show the move at full speed and then slow it down for explanations. From what I know, the human brain in very good at visually understanding motion.

Also: As long as it's not shown in full action, I don't quite buy it. Is it really an improvement?

This reminds me of me as a little kid, trying to win soccer games by incorporating "ninja kicks".

So in short: Not sure if this is legit...


I am not a car. The way I am facing is not necessarily the same way I am moving (not striclty the case for cars either, but that leaves parts of the tires on the road).

For example, for multiple flights of stairs, where the path would suggest repeated 180 degree turns in the same direction, I like to replace every second one with a turn in the other direction combined with some sideways movement component.


Why?


Why not?

It reduces the risk for RSI, prevents the inner ear from adjusting to the rotation, and advoids twisting the ivisible chain I'm pulling.

And because it's fun.


> Move safely around objects in your house without hitting or walking into them

Especially important benefit


Who is the target audience for this? Aliens?


Young humans. Older humans with physical disabilities. Older humans recovering from injuries.


Yes, but more specifically aliens wearing human suits.


The video left out to coninue to breathe. If someone makes a long turn, they might suffocate. I better email them to include that part in the video as well.


I did some barefoot running, when I lived on a dirt road. With having to avoid stepping on sharp rocks you figure these moves out quickly. You also figure out how to step lightly, and to keep your steps short, and to land on the ball of your foot rather than heel. It took a while to learn and get used to the different gait. Since then I've done some trail running and those same skills apply.


I'm sure there's an experiment involved somewhere in how this ended up on HN front page.

Having seen how bots and spam taken over things with time, I think it'll be a struggle for HN to stay on topic.

HN a few years ago was amazing. Today it's still good, but I feel like I'm at a party and a lot of loud people that weren't invited have showed up.


people seem to be making fun of this, but you actually use tricks like this when dancing, to move more smoothly or faster


This definitely falls under the "questions I've never thought to ask" category.


"questions I've never needed to ask"*


"questions I was never aware I needed to ask"


Honestly I've been turning just fine for years...


This almost looks like they are giving a wrong answer to attract the right one. In order to turn say right you have to step further forward and out to the left to create a right-backward lean, otherwise you'll just stumble over your own foot.


I'm not sure I quite understand what is different about this from "normal" turning. How do people turn if they aren't turning like this?


Is this one of these cases where tax-payer money could have been prioritized better or is there a legitimate case for this type of content?


As someone who coaches a local amateur sports club: at our level, the main reason to learn proper biomechanics is to reduce risk of injury. (At a higher level, it's also useful for getting those small advantages in effective reaction speed and positioning.)

Changes in direction are a really, really, really common cause of knee, ankle, and foot injuries. There's a _lot_ of force on fragile joints when you turn, dodge, fake out, etc. at speed - and especially for occasional / amateur athletes, who often don't have a high base level of strength and mobility.

It looks silly, but I'd rather our players look silly than tear ACLs or rupture Achilles tendons. (Plus in Canada, those tears and ruptures also cost taxpayer money - a whole lot more of it than making a quick video!)


Yup, waiting list in Southern Alberta for adolescent knee surgery is 18 months at the moment. Even for kids that can't walk.


Probably good for rehab after injuries.


How could this be used for rehab? Just curious what you have in mind.


I highly doubt this has any benefit. I'm leaning towards enriching themselfes on tax money as well.


You guys know why they call it the Xbox 360?


How best to turn 180?


Have you ever done shuttle runs? You put your leg forward, foot turned slightly inwards, use it to absorb your kinetic energy by pivoting on the ball and bending the knee and hip joints and when you have completed your turn, push with it to propel yourself in the opposite direction.


No but I will give it a try for fun, thanks!


Do half a back flip and land on your head.


Done that. On a trampoline




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