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I hope mankind can move beyond building space stations as a handful of modular small cylinders, and start building space stations the way they appear in science fiction: dozens of rooms, cubical exteriors, hallways, human height doors that open and close, stairs, elevators, hangars, a nuclear reactor instead of solar panels, and modules that rotate around an axis to create artificial gravity. And a more diversified color scheme than all white, which is sterile.

I would like to see this:

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/futuristic-architecture...

https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/04/77/75/80/360_F_477758033_1n2FBtz...




That requires a truly astounding amount of material. Unless the cost to place it in orbit gets within an order of magnitude of our current terrestrial freight, it's not happening.

Best bet is to construct these things in orbit, with materials sourced in orbit. But now you have a chicken and egg problem - need to send an incredible amount of material (and people) in order to (potentially!) save in the future.


Beltalowda!


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You’re afraid china will beat the us to aesthetic space stations?


I want a country to make one. Any country. I would gladly pay for a ticket for a week long stay on an aesthetic space station. You have no idea how badly I want to live in the kind of futuristic future depicted in science fiction.


You'd like to live in a world similar to Blade Runner or Neuromancer? That doesn't seem pleasant at all to me.


> I would gladly pay for a ticket for a week long stay on an aesthetic space station.

How much would you pay? Because the capital cost of building it was hand wavey thrown out as $500B and the operating costs of facility would be exorbitant.

What do you imagine doing?


Staring out the observation bay for hours on end with my favorite mood music playing through my headphones. Then going for a spacewalk, before heading back inside and having dinner with my friends in the rotating orbital restaurant. After that, I'll play an online video games with Earth-based players. To conclude my day, I'll return to my luxury pod, lay on the side in bed while looking outside at the planet through the port window, a mere inches from my face, and let my dreams, and the low humm of the station's machinery, take me to sleep.


Your best bet is VR.


> Because the capital cost of building it was hand wavey thrown out as $500B and the operating costs of facility would be exorbitant.

Yeah, estimated using the inflated cost of the ISS and other historic projects... give a tenth of the money to a private company not bound to political pork interest like NASA/ESA and they'll manage it just fine. Alternatively, give NASA/ESA free rein to do things the efficient way.

The problem at the root is that, historically, space access never was a plain "we need task X accomplished" - there always was the political interest of those with decision power to spread R&D and construction far across the country, so that everyone got a little piece (and every politician could claim of having brought jobs to their voters). That caused enormous inefficiencies - stuff needs to be shipped three times across the continent (look at Airbus supply chain, it's insane), there's an enormous amount of red tape and coordination efforts required, and turnaround times are insane. Meanwhile SpaceX has like two manufacturing plants and four launch sites and especially they manufacture a lot of what they need completely on their own so they don't have the typical delays you have with a classic vendor-supplier relationship, and they save on profit margins of all the intermediates as well.


I think you're seriously overestimating Chinese economic capabilities. They are still constrained by the same economic realities as everybody else, and -- much as we wish it were possible -- they cannot afford to just do whatever.


"You can accomplish anything when you have vision, determination and an endless supply of expendable labor"


Presumably the problem there is that even a sea of expendable labour's useless, if what you need is a Von Braun[1]-esque figure and a paddling pool of engineering talent... .

[1] Korolev, Musk, &c.


The type of labour needed to build a space station isn't expendable.


Space stations and exploration can be a difficult proposition to justify to any economic system; democratic, socialist, communist, etc. For China to want to "beat" us, building bigger and better space stations would somehow have to align with the current and future five year plans.

I would rather have China and the US pouring tons of money into space stations and exploration, but it is hard to figure out the rationale for such a massive investment. China seems to make rational decisions, those of which I am not defending. I am trying to figure out how rational a $500 billion dollar investment in a space station would be to Chinese interests.


The space race was motivated by competition with Russia, notably the imperative to establish a tactical nuclear advantage. We could conceivably see another space race between the US and China, but maybe not if "space" doesn't have the same tactical appeal?


I suppose it could lead to a race to build a new generation of heavy lift vehicles or other propulsion systems. Maybe a return to the NERVA[1] engine! That technology was an interesting story point in the "For All Mankind" series alternative timeline.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA


What happened to the US space force? I expected the US to have nukesats in orbit by now. Or maybe they do?


Presumably everyone already has access to enough nukes such that there isn't much of a point in investing in nukes, whether terrestrial or satellite? The arms race might lead toward building more, better interceptors?


you’re so excited to destroy peoples lives and end the existence of species, and yet you think you represent the future…


That will probably require finding an efficient way to extract building materials in space (possibly from the moon), moving those materials to where you want your station (probably a Lagrange point), and building with those materials. These are non-trivial problems.

Also solar is far more efficient in space, without any annoying atmosphere in the way, it makes perfect sense to use it there.


To stay within the protection of Earth's magnetosphere, habitable stations are put in low earth orbit. Low earth orbit entails atmospheric drag, and bigger stations have more drag as well as larger propellent requirements to boost.


Even if the cost to launch would be way cheaper, that weigth allowance would be used for useful stuff like laundry machines, more "sterile" modules as you call them for more research, and potentially for industrial applications like factories to build low-gravity-only components and low gravity biomedical applications.

Your vision is useful for tourism and little else.


While I too look forward to that day, at least for awhile longer due to physics, we are going to continue to have “rounded cylinders”. The main reason for this is very simple: Pressurized vessels. If you look at any type of air tank, and there is a reason they are a certain shape. The moment you do any type of “point” or “edge” it becomes a weak point in the design.

That said… you can always make a really large pressure vessel and put things inside…


A torus shape has no sharp edges and can be pretty useful in space if it rotates.


Absolutely, but now you are talking pretty large structures… which will take time for us to get there.


from a mechanical engineering standpoint, a torus is also easier to construct than a sphere.


How so?


We need a reason to do it first.


More habitable space, more luxurious accommodations, more energy generating capacity, more space for laboratory equipment and experiments.


More habitable space than the ground? Maybe some day but that would be a grim future indeed.


It sounds like you're saying that a bigger space station would enable more experimentation quantity and quality. I would still say that the benefits need to justify the costs. We've gotten better at being frugal/scrappy with how we use space resources, whether that's small experiments on the ISS or cubesats.


Here in SF, we have cars with bumper stickers that say "Leave space alone".

So it starts, the birth of space environmentalists.


You should check out videos from inside Skylab if you haven't[1]. You can see people jogging around the perimeter like in 2001. It was so big that they worried that people who ended up in the middle would get stuck and have a hard time getting back to the walls.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZNKVnDvQY4&t=250s


Zero g tends to expand living spaces in general due to them becoming truly 3-dimensional. The volume of a tiny room on Earth can easily accomodate several people in orbit. Large spaces don't make much sense in these conditions, not just because of inefficiency, but because of the inconvenience of being stranded in the middle. You need some kind of handles or separators within the immediate reach - why not have actual walls then.


Some more recent launch providers are focusing on greatly lowering $/kg to orbit, which is an absolutely necessary step for such visions.


I think this company is highly optimistic, but this might fit the bill:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/space-hotel-orbital-assem...


It’s a scam ran by an ex airline pilot with no engineering experience whatsoever. https://youtu.be/lue35X4DFeQ


Unfortunately it’s about $2,720 per 2.2 lbs in even the best case scenario.


You are allowed to say kilogram on the internet.


You're also allowed to say 2.2 pounds, and many (though not most) will understand.

You're even allowed to be a pedant, as I am often accused! :)


SpaceX aims to reduce that by two orders of magnitude with Starship. It will be a big deal if they can achieve it.


TIL for about ~$3,090, I could send a 40oz of Old English to space.


As long as it's set on a collision course with the Sun. Although I'm not sure the latter would survive.


Translation: 2.2 lbs is around 1kg


How have you come up with this number?


>For a SpaceX Falcon 9, the rocket used to access the ISS, the cost is just $2,720 per kilogram.

https://theconversation.com/how-spacex-lowered-costs-and-red...


Floors and ceilings are concepts that only make sense in the context of gravity. The reason that science fiction movie space stations look like that is because they were filmed on earth.


Why, there is already barely anything useful to do with the current crop of space stations.


Uhmmm...at least we get to find out how spiders spin a web in zero-g.


If only we could put down our differences and use the Flat UI color scheme.


Hopefully they solve more important problems first though.


Isn't this a logical fallacy? Rocket scientists and engineers are going to best suited to getting stuff into orbit, they aren't simply going to be able to go a solve a "more important problem". Other people are already working on those things and are likely specialists.


It's hard to make items that achieve their function and can be transported into space. There are still improvements to be made with functionality and launch-ability. It's more important to focus on those - if you can make something fit a subjective standard of beauty at the same great. Except that's only 1 person's ideal so who cares.


It's true in a way but just pushes things back a level of causality: if we train more people as aerospace engineers, then we will have fewer trained people in other specialties. We have a finite supply of enthusiastic, smart young people to drive change. The best answer of course is "do both" and make sure more of our young people are happy, enthusiastic, and able to access necessary training and education.

There are also skills that overlap: every welder that SpaceX or Lockheed employs is one less welder able to help install a water treatment plant somewhere. Here again, the solution is to train more welders.


> We have a finite supply of enthusiastic, smart young people to drive change

And currently most of them go into trading, which is a zero-sum game, or into building another social network that causes depression.

Look at top-ten list of high paying jobs, and ask youself how much crucial work for society they do


Trading is not exactly zero sum. Trading is price discovery + arbitrage, both of which are useful even if imperfect.


> if we train

People choose those paths on their own, not because some human industrial policy plucked them out of middle school and put them on that path.


Nonetheless, if they choose to be an aerospace engineer, they've chosen not to be, for example, a surgeon, or whatever else.


Yes, that is how choice and specialization work, we don't live in a feudal or autocratic system where heredity or fiat determine your life path.


I didn't say any of that?


You don't have a finite supply of people. Because people get to choose what they do. Even the dictatorships can't order people to become a good X if they don't have the interest.

It's the height of entitlement to think you're able to demand more of some profession come into existence. The worst regimes on earth can't manage it. The most you get to do is incentivize and make available the training and access and process to maybe get more of that. That's it.


We absolutely can do it, and have. Post-sputnik, government funding poured into STEM, and we convinced huge amounts of young people that they wanted to be scientists and engineers, and nobody was coerced into anything. We trained enough engineers in that short time to staff a literal moonshot program plus every half-baked weapons system idea that crossed a desk anywhere in the Pentagon plus tons of other more speculative stuff like packet switching networks (aka ethernet, the internet, etc.).

It's not necessary to dictate any individual person's career in order to shift the numbers in aggregate.


form follows function though.


It will happen after AGI singularity.


It's extremely hard to join large structures airtight, with joints being stronger than the material itself.

Soviet, and Russian spacecraft, and modules were traditionally made with extremely uneconomical method of machining the vessel from a single giant piece of aluminium to not to worry about joints, and their strength under space conditions.


The difficulty is not about joining large structures airtight. otherwise we would have trouble with building commercial aircraft.

the problem is when you want to make something out from the absolute minimim weight possible due to economy of putting things into space, then you can't do with any connections whatsoever.

The pressure of -1 bar isn't particularly challenging engineering wise.


Jet airliners are not airtight, nor they deal with 1 bar of pressure difference.

In space, you have to make it airtight with most rubbers drying our, and constant intense thermal cycling.




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