I think Kiwi Farms' users harassed several people in retaliation for their speech until they killed themselves, rather than engaging in rational argument with them, defending their rights to speak their unpopular opinions, or even just leaving them alone. We're not talking about acrimonious ideological debate; we're talking about stalking and SWATting.
No, they didn't. This has been debunked numerous times. The evidence for that is on KF itself. The people who perpetuate this narrative are people actually engaged in harassment against others whose activities are documented on KF using their own words which, oddly enough, they really don't like... leading them to attempt mass deplatforming. Anyone with more than a passing familiarity with this situation knows the score, and no one is fooled.
> Clara Sorrenti, a transgender activist and Twitch streamer under the name "Keffals", was doxxed on Kiwi Farms in a thread dedicated to discussing her. Users on the site posted personal information about her (e.g. addresses, phone numbers) as well as that of her friends and family. Users also leaked sexually explicit photos of her and made death threats.[34][35] She was later swatted, arrested, and detained for over ten hours in August 2022 when someone stole her identity and sent fake emails to local politicians threatening mass violence. She was later cleared of any wrongdoing, and police acknowledged the incident as a swatting attempt. Users also posted the address of an unrelated man who lives in the same city and shares her last name, and police were also sent to his residence. After the swatting incident, Sorrenti said she moved out of her home and into a hotel for her safety.[36][37] After she posted a photograph of her cat on the hotel bed, Kiwi Farms users identified the hotel from the bedsheets in the photograph, and sent multiple pizza orders to the hotel under her deadname. "Obviously, the pizza itself isn't the problem. It's the threat they send by telling me they know where I live and are willing to act on it in the real world," she said in a video after the incident.[36][37][38] Sorrenti later fled the country after her location was identified again, reportedly by someone who hacked her Uber account.[39] The incidents are being investigated as criminal harassment, and Sorrenti stated she intended to pursue legal action.[37][40][41]
I don't want to stand on any side of the argument since I'm not very informed about KiwiFarm incident, but Wikipedia in general is not really a reliable source of truth.
Skimming the references, almost all of them seem to point to news pages created after the CloudFlare ban, none of which seems to provide sources for their claims themselves.
Wikipedia does get things wrong sometimes, but I'm not sure where to find more reliable information. Wikipedia does have a pretty good history of handling controversial topics like the Armenian genocide, the killing of Michael Brown, and lampshades made of Holocaust victims' skin.
I agree that Wikipedia eventually converges to something close to truth. However, that takes time. Since the event in question is fairly recent, I'd still take everything written about it on Wikipedia with a grain of salt.
The hotel where she was doxed by the sheets nothing was delivered, the second hotel was where the uber hack happenned and things were ordered thru ubereats, this was all done by doxbin[0], both the dox and the hack.I'm pretty sure kf was actually down during that whole thing due to a ddos attack but I may be misremembering.
Wikipedia doesnt post the truth(it's impossible, really), they post things backed up by secondary sources, when the secondary sources are knowingly lying[1] at keffals request to not mention doxbin it's pretty hard to trust them.
Chloe Sagal was left alone for 8 months (not a single post in her thread) until she killed herself. If you are interested I recommend reading https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2018/06/woman_who_set_se... It starts with her friends blaming Kiwi Farms but then goes deeper in to the issues.
EDIT: The "sexually explicit photos" are a video she did for a porn website. I'm not sure how this qualifies as "leaked" or "revenge porn".
And yet there is no evidence an American died overseas in Japan during the time he supposedly killed himself. None. Just one guy's assertion and everyone else believing him.
...you mean the encyclopedia that anyone can edit? The one which has been edited to support a viewpoint whose sole source is Keffals herself? That one?
I'm not impressed.
There is no evidence that Keffals was ever contacted by anybody other than her own assertion. Meanwhile, however, there is plenty of evidence that Keffals was part of a group that tried to get troubled teens access to hormones without the knowledge of their parents or physicians. That's all documented at KF. [1]
> Sorrenti later fled the country after her location was identified again
...conveniently omitting the fact that she was raided by the RCMP who seized evidence. It was after that raid she fled the country.
Honestly, you should never cite Wikipedia for anything.
And not one bit of even evidence that the site had anything to do with that.. Keffals wasn't even doxxed on the site, it was on another site. Plus the person in question just got done fighting and de-platforming another internet personality with a huge following and then gloating about taking away their livelihood. They didn't leak photos of Keffals, they found self posted porn from the past.
I saw it with my own eyes as a user of the site. Yes, KF was used to document awful things by awful people, but it was also used to encourage harassment of people who were just existing (well, existing while trans mostly). A few of those people took their own lives and blamed the harassment that KF enabled.
> Yes, KF was used to document awful things by awful people, but it was also used to encourage harassment of people who were just existing (well, existing while trans mostly)
No they didn't. Null and the mods are very, very emphatic that harassment is unacceptable (hence the phrase he loves to hate, "Don't touch the poop"). Further, nobody was ever nominated as a lolcow simply for being trans. There's nothing particularly funny about that. OTOH, people falsely accusing streamers of rape and trying to get hormones to minors all while holding yourself out as some kind of moral person? Yeah, that's pretty funny.
> A few of those people took their own lives and blamed the harassment that KF enabled.
There are exactly three people alleged to have offed themselves, and not one of them ever actually did it because of KF. That too is documented at KF since it's a lie that comes up so often. Since you're familiar with this, though, I'm sure you can name them. I'll wait.
"Stinkditch" is the category for lolcows who happen to be trans. There's also the Beauty Parlor for the beauty-adjacent, or the Internationale Clique for foreign lolcows. In no case is anyone in there simply for being trans, beautiful, or a foreigner. They are, however, there for engaging in horrendously unethical behavior which is documented using their own words.
Oh, and look at that... KF is back on the clearnet... so you can verify all this yourself.
Help me out - your favorite hate site is getting trash talked and doxxed. Please fill out this questionnaire.
Are you:
Upset that people can spread rumors you think are false?
Upset that there are real world consequences to the stuff that's being said about you, independent of the truth of it?
Angry that you are labeled as nazi sympathizer because you hang out on a site that has a lot of nazis?
Embarassed that you subscribe to a belief summarized as "why are you upset? free speech!", and now you find yourself not championing the free speech of those attacking you?
Ah, very good sir. While we're filling out questionnaires, perhaps you could indulge us in answering a few questions yourself:
1. Why are you defending someone who tries to get children access to hormones without the knowledge of their parents or doctors?
2. Can you name one person who demonstrably offed themselves because of what goes on at KF? Please provide evidence.
3. Is it 'hate' to document peoples' horrible activities using their own words?
4. Would you be this snarky if someone was saying these sorts of things about, say, HN?
5. Are you upset that there are people in this world who don't blithely accept the word of Wikipedia and journalists but rather engage in investigative journalism themselves?
I see, afraid or unable to answer.... redirecting in seeming bad faith.
I'll go ahead and mark you down in the "cowardly kiwifool" column - that seems to be most of you. Strange.
Anyway, if you want to engage my questions I'll consider engaging in yours. (I use the same policy with you lot that I use with drug dealers, car salespeople and other unsavory hucksters - show me the goods then I'll give you what you're asking for if it's a reasonable exchange.)
> Help me out - your favorite hate site is getting trash talked and doxxed. Please fill out this questionnaire.
Is TMZ a hate site? Is anything a hate site just because people assert it without proof? Do you believe everything you are told by journalists?
> Upset that people can spread rumors you think are false?
Is it really spreading rumors when they're using your own posts?
> Upset that there are real world consequences to the stuff that's being said about you, independent of the truth of it?
So are you suggesting that nobody should ever say anything at all because someone might take it the wrong way? That sure sounds like giving in the to the Heckler's Veto. Perhaps you mean that there should be some forum for adjudicating disputes of fact about a person's reputation? In that case there is in fact just such a forum: It's called a court of law. If KF posters have said anything defamatory then feel free to try to sue them. Go ahead.
> Angry that you are labeled as nazi sympathizer because you hang out on a site that has a lot of nazis?
OBJECTION! Asserts facts not in evidence. Just because you assert a place has X in it does not mean that it has X in it. I mean, if we're going by that standard, I can point out that anyone who hangs out on Discord must be a furry and a pedophile because of... oh wait.
> Embarassed that you subscribe to a belief summarized as "why are you upset? free speech!", and now you find yourself not championing the free speech of those attacking you?
It is not "free speech" to engage in tortious interference. Do you understand the difference?
This is why I demand to see the goods up front. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's cool, but there's no reason to answer yours then.
I'm sure you are aware of this, but I never said anything about legality, or even talked about it. Looks like you're going with the classic scumbag fallback of "its not illegal" before I even suggested you did anything wrong. Kinda sad that your default position isn't that you're in the right, just that you aren't breaking the law.
I'll leave you to your day with this: it might be worth your time to consider activities that benefit the world rather than just plodding from one technically legal trollfarm to the next - most people find the rewards of being useful quite nice. Cheers and good luck!
> the classic scumbag fallback of "its not illegal"
What's so "scumbag" in trying to rely on the law and law enforcement for getting rid of bad and harmful things? I'm a normal citizen, I'm perfectly happy to leave the judgement to the courts. Am I a scumbag because of this?
...because you want to steer the conversation to predetermined conclusions and are incensed that other people won't play along?
The era of the proletariat blindly believing whatever the petit bourgeoisie tell them is dead and gone, and attempts to silence the proletariat when petit bourgeoisie are caught doing unethical things doubly so. Information wants to be free.
> ...because you want to steer the conversation to predetermined conclusions and are incensed that other people won't play along?
Lol no silly. Because I want to have answers to my questions and an actual conversation, not sit around and play mental patty cake with someone incapable of participating in actual conversion. When your only response is to ask a bunch of nonsense questions that aren't in any way related to what I'm asking or saying, you aren't conversing, it's just some childish game of avoidance.
Dismissing my answers does not make them any less answers. Also, I'm not the one refusing to have an actual conversation. That's you. You said you wouldn't answer my questions until I answered yours... so I did, and now here we are with you continuing to avoid those very uncomfortable questions.
Maybe you should just admit that you just hate KF and don't care if they're silenced or not. That at least would be honest.
"Has a lot of nazis"?? Do you have proof of this? (I mean I don't doubt that there is someone who does since the site has a pretty big user base and doesn't censor speech, let alone speakers for opinions but...)
