On: All poverty is energy poverty

[WalterBright]

My google doctorate says that energy efficiency of refining is 90%. And you ignored the energy efficiency of mining coal.

> You can play this game all day long

And you should, to be serious about CO2 emissions reduction. Otherwise, we're all just fooling ourselves.

[CraigJPerry → WalterBright]

But only around 30% of the refined fuel’s energy transfers into useful work done with the ICE vehicle.

If the BEV is running with their 2kw heating turned up full blast in addition to running down the road, and there was a heat loss of around 2-5% while charging the car then We’re still at around 3x more efficient in the BEV vs the ICE.

Then there’s the electricity supply which ranges from 0 refinement loss and 50% thermal efficiency (natural gas fired power plant) to NaN% for nuclear, wind and solar.

A BEV charging right this minute in the UK is consuming energy originating from 25% gas, 25% nuclear, 25% wind, 5% solar (its 6:30pm).

It could be more than 5x when you compare with ICE fuel supply / refinement / storage / delivery.

[WalterBright → CraigJPerry]

> But only around 30% of the refined fuel’s energy transfers into useful work done with the ICE vehicle.

Right. Now factor in the losses in thermodynamic electric power generation to fuel the EV.

> We’re still at around 3x more efficient in the BEV vs the ICE.

Don't neglect the losses from generating that electricity, which is about 70%.

[CraigJPerry → WalterBright]

>> Don't neglect the losses from generating that electricity, which is about 70%

What? There’s 70% loss in the process of generating electricity? Where does that occur?

[WalterBright → CraigJPerry]

Thermodynamic efficiency. Google says coal electric power generation is 33% efficient.

[CraigJPerry → WalterBright]

BEV’s run on coal power?

[josephcsible → CraigJPerry]

There's no magical barrier in the electrical grid that prevents charging BEVs from coal-fired power plants.

[CraigJPerry → josephcsible]

Parent is alleging 100% supply from coal since they claim there’s 70% thermal loss in the charging of BEVs

Coal is circa 20% of the supply in the US. About the same as nuclear or renewables.

[onlyrealcuzzo → WalterBright]

It's 10% or less for solar, wind, nuclear, etc...