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This really doesn't scale to the level of a whole country, or continent, having to contend with low power output for months, as recently happened with wind in Europe. And even if it can in principle scale, it's unproven and requires much more complex ops than a nuclear plant, which has been a well understood solution for decades.

Not to mention, this requires huge over-production, which is a problem in areas with already high land usage, such as Europe. It is probably much less of a problem in the USA, so maybe there the calculations are different.




Nothing can ever happen for the first time. If something hasn't been done now, it can't ever happen.

I just love reactionary conservative nuclear logic.


I'd you're going to be the future of the planet on something, getting on a solution that has worked for over half a century is a lot safer than something that has never been done outside of prototypes.

"Let's just use fusion for all our energy needs. We don't need fission, nor do we need wind and solar. Just because it hasn't been done now, doesn't mean it'll never happen. If you don't support this you're just an anti-fusion conservative reactionary!"


But you see, going with renewables is not betting the future of the planet. We absolutely know that renewables can do it. The technologies all exist now. All that we're doing is quibbling over how much it would cost.

The worst case for renewables would be that costs stop declining. Stack the deck just right and nuclear might end up a bit cheaper. But this is just a financial risk, not a risk of the planet. And if one is looking at financial risks, one must also look at the risk of cost overruns in nuclear. Unlike with renewables, which typically come in within 10% of the contracted cost, nuclear plants are famously subject to enormous cost overruns. Factors of 2, 3, or even more.

Pretending that the promises of nuclear will absolutely come true, but that renewables haven't absolutely demonstrated their cost declines will continue, is a blatant double standard and not how one does proper analysis. That's why utilities and financiers have walked away from new nuclear, especially in markets where they're not allowed to foist overruns off on the ratepayers.


> But you see, going with renewables is not betting the future of the planet. We absolutely know that renewables can do it. The technologies all exist now. All that we're doing is quibbling over how much it would cost.

We have lots of experience with hydroelectricity. So we can just build more dams, it's all just a question of cost right? With more money we can just build more dams until we reach 100% hydroelectric generation right? This is the kind of logic you're using.

Possibility and feasibility are two different things. Lithium ion batteries exist, but we'll never deploy a day's worth of battery storage. The scale just isn't there. No amount of money thrown at the problem is going to make it possible.

Sure things like hydroelectricity and electrolysis exist, but they have significant barriers to feasibility. The likely path for an attempt at solar and wind grid is to build a bunch of solar and wind, try to build storage, fail, and keep using fossil fuels. Nobody, and I mean nobody has ever built grid scale storage for more than an hour's worth of electricity use (let alone total energy use). Energy storage remains an unsolved problem, and it's not just a question of cost. There's no telling if it can be done even with unlimited financial resources.

By comparison we just need to build 4 nuclear plants for every existing one in the US. No massive 10,000x increase in storage capacity required. No reliance on technology that's never been deployed at scale.


No continent currently runs on nuclear power, not even a single country currently runs on nuclear power. Nuclear power is hence unproven at scale by your logic.


France generates over 70% of it's power from nuclear energy. At it's peak it was over 80%, with the remainder fulfilled by preexisting hydroelectricity.


France gets 70% ef its electricity from nuclear. It only gets about a third of its primary power from nuclear. Clearly, the technology can't handle the task if the country can't even run its electric grid on 100% nuclear. /s


By comparison, the largest share of wind and solar in any country is only 43% in Denmark. Germany comes in second only 33%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable...

So if 70% is insufficient to demonstrate feasibility, then solar and wind are even worse off.


In this thread I'm making fun of the assertion that proven technology can't scale. I guess I should've added more sarcasm markers.




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