Slightly tangential, but I am beginning to despise "smart" anything, because the product developers don't seem to care at all.
I just got z-wave locks from a company ultraloq, figured I don't want the integration with the app etc. I will just use z-wave and connect to my local offline hub. But once I get down to set it up, I can only connect to the hub via z-wave from the ultraloq app. I install the app and I need to register an account by providing first name, last name, email and phone number, then the only way to pair my lock with the app is by enabling bluetooth and providing location access to the app with gps enabled. I do that and then I find out that once I install the app and register the lock, I am not allowed to use it in standalone/offline mode (setup/change lock codes directly from the lock) unless I do a factory reset. Funny enough, if I factory reset, I lock is no longer connected to my hub on z-wave.
Basically to use z-wave with my offline hub, I need to provide the company my gps location, first name, last name, email and phone number and stream data of lock usage every time the door is unlocked/locked to the company. How is this not a security risk for the company? If they ever get hacked, all their customer PII data including the gps location of where the locks are installed are compromised.
They do care - it is just what they care about is diametrically opposed to your interests. The post-sales revenue stream from collected data is not only profitable, but in some cases more profitable than the sale itself.
Makes me wonder, if people really cared the market should react to it and have products to cater to those needs. Maybe my interests and people with similar interests are a very small minority, everything now is setup via an app - toasters to routers to vacuums. The sad truth is probably that vast majority of people like the convenience of an app and don't care about privacy or data collection and the products/market is heading there.
> if people really cared the market should react to it and have products to cater to those needs
I think the current incentive has warped the market beyond repair for certain products.
Take TV for example, non-smart TVs cost the same or more than smart TVs because manufacturers can subsidise smart TVs’ cost by selling or utilising data. Not to mention other “benefits” like locking consumers into their ecosystem: a lot of Korean newly weds buy all Samsung or all LG for electronics for this reason. With all these incentives, it makes sense for the companies to only make smart TVs.
We need regulations to offset these incentives. There most be a real tangible cost to collecting data and appliances should be required to use open protocols. Then it will make more sense for manufacturers to make just normal TVs that can compete with smart TV.
The sad truth is probably that vast majority of people like the convenience of an app and don't care about privacy or data collection and the products/market is heading there.
I don't really believe in this theory. Certainly the average HN commenter trends more privacy-aware than the average person in our societies but I know many "normal" people who don't like the intrusion but accept it because they don't see any viable alternative apart from giving up a normal life.
The correct solution when competition in commercial markets doesn't solve a problem like this because it's just too profitable for everyone to carry on the abuse is for governments to regulate in the public interest. Of course that relies on elected representatives to do their jobs and not just pander to whichever industry gives its lobbyists the most funding so the success of the strategy is likely to vary wildly depending on which country you live in.
I only buy stuff that I can reflash (tasmota, esphome, or whatever), because everything else will either be deprecated, the cloud will be discontinued, the app wont work on the newest android, or there will be a huge security breach, that the company won't fix for "legacy" devices.
This makes stuff pretty limited, but you can still find atleast some things that are (eg.) esp8266 based.
That is my plan. Their support is Mon-Fri working hours. I want to call their support and ask them if indeed z-wave is only usable if I register the lock, hook it up with their app and give up functionality of using it in standalone/offline mode. If they confirm there's no other way, I will return and buy something from a competitor instead.
I just got z-wave locks from a company ultraloq, figured I don't want the integration with the app etc. I will just use z-wave and connect to my local offline hub. But once I get down to set it up, I can only connect to the hub via z-wave from the ultraloq app. I install the app and I need to register an account by providing first name, last name, email and phone number, then the only way to pair my lock with the app is by enabling bluetooth and providing location access to the app with gps enabled. I do that and then I find out that once I install the app and register the lock, I am not allowed to use it in standalone/offline mode (setup/change lock codes directly from the lock) unless I do a factory reset. Funny enough, if I factory reset, I lock is no longer connected to my hub on z-wave.
Basically to use z-wave with my offline hub, I need to provide the company my gps location, first name, last name, email and phone number and stream data of lock usage every time the door is unlocked/locked to the company. How is this not a security risk for the company? If they ever get hacked, all their customer PII data including the gps location of where the locks are installed are compromised.