> It's sad that despite all the warnings, people are so myopic
Which warnings? I ask the question earnestly. As a developer with a clear sense of how the internet is structured, what browsers are and are not capable of doing etc I know the warnings myself. But for the population at large? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything that’s explained the consequences of pervasive advertising infrastructure to non tech inclined folks, much less something placed somewhere that people will actually see it.
Until recently people simply were not aware that personally identifiable location data was gathered on them to the extent that you’d be able to detect a visit to an abortion clinic. Or that period tracking apps are sending data in a way that can be later bought on a free market and tied to personal identification.
This is a failure of regulation, education and a media beholden to tech giants. I think we in the tech industry have some reflection to do as well. We understand the implications better than most yet many of us dutifully completed our work tickets to add tracking pixels to every page of the company site. We can’t do that then turn around and say “what, you mean you didn’t know that a Facebook Like button tracks every web page you look at even if you don’t click on it?!” and expect to be taken seriously.
Placing the blame at the feet of individuals that aren’t equipped to understand is a mistake, IMO.
I recently watched the 1998 Will Smith movie "Enemy of the State" (lawyer targeted by the NSA finds himself entangled in a terrifying web of surveillance). The point of the movie was clearly to emphasize the importance of privacy and the dangers of mass data collection and surveillance.
What is most wild about the movie is that much of the tech (and government policies) seemed a bit far-fetched (Hollywood-style exaggeration) for 1998. However, now, after 20+ years of the Patriot Act and the advancement of global connectivity (read smartphones) it actually came across as pretty tame and unsurprising. The ramifications of society's decent down the rabbit hole have been clear for awhile to anyone willing to pay attention...
In Enemy of the state they could hide from the every present satelites by
1) Not looking up or going in side
2) Throwing away any phones you have
Good luck with that. You might not even have a phone, that person taking a photo you just walked past does, and the facial recognition works just fine. Even if they don't know your name, they can track you. It was sort-of covered in the film - the CCTV in the garage etc, it's just far less manpower intensive now
I spent 20 years talking to friends and familly around me, and they don't care. They won't even try Firefox if they are used to chrome. Not even that small effort.
We had the US mass spying revealed in the press, with the PRISM program exposed. The public mostly carried on as usual.
Snowden got persecuted, giving the issue a lot of publicity. He wrote a very good book explaning why surveillance is dangerous. Again, most people didn't flinch.
A lot of people on HN reported trying to talk to people and get blank stares. "I have nothing to hide". "I don't care if people are collecting my data".
This is not just a failure in regulation: people don't give priority to problem that are not a pain right now. It's too abstract. Not to mention they have other problems that are a pain right now, and are armed with limited time, resources and knowledge.
Same problem with climate change. Their life is fine now. They can't care about the impact of their consumption in x year when they have to think about a loan, their health, the kids getting in trouble at school, their boss being pushy lately and the lattest form they have to fill.
There is also the cost of trying to avoid tracking product at the individual level.
I won't use Apple since it's locked down. So I use android. But I can't sign in into a google account or it will track everything. So I can't use the app store and many app won't work.
I can't use the best app provider like gmap and waze, have to sandbox youtube which mean it's mostly suggesting terrible content as it assumes I'm the average human.
I have a collections of extensions on web browser and several Firefox containers to isolate everything. Something I spent a lot of time to learn, master and configure.
I use Linux because Windows is tracking you, and MacOS is a golden cage. So I can't buy the best laptop CPU out there, which is the M2, and have terrible battery life.
My friends harassed me to have a FB account. Then an insta account. Then a whatsapp account. So I have to accept to miss out on things, and their nagging about it for every communication.
Now I am willing to accept all that because I think there are things more important in life than being part of a group chat or having the latest trendy thing.
But it's a hard sell for a many, espacially since, once again, "their life is fine right now".
>Until recently people simply were not aware that personally identifiable location data was gathered on them to the extent that you’d be able to detect a visit to an abortion clinic. Or that period tracking apps are sending data in a way that can be later bought on a free market and tied to personal identification.
They were aware. It just wasn't until these moments that it affected them personally, and they started to care.
>Until recently people simply were not aware that personally identifiable location data was gathered on them to the extent that you’d be able to detect a visit to an abortion clinic. Or that period tracking apps are sending data in a way that can be later bought on a free market and tied to personal identification.
"People" were utterly certain that their phones and computers were listening to every conversation they had, then big tech was advertising the products that they thought about back at them.
But the location tracking software they have enabled to find their phone/keys/bag/friend couldnt possibly be used to see where their phone/keys/bag/friend is ...
I cannot express how unsurprised I am at this - it's simply too stereotypically American. Americans, as a general rule, seem to distrust their government - instead placing their trust in large corporations. This is true from an individual level, all the way up to societal - though I'll admit it becomes more hit-or-miss the closer we get to the individual level.
This is borne out in everything from private prisons, to the medical industry, to ID cards, to your acquaintances that trust Facebook more than their elected officials.
This all comes from somewhere. It's not like we woke up one day and decided to distrust government. The entire movement to infiltrate government and make it ineffective so people will support dismantling and privatizing it is just the tip of the iceberg. Culture doesn't exist in a vacuum. You can trust your government--your post makes it sound like you're not in the US; if you are, you need to pay more attention--because it's not fully captured by private interests that make it work against the public.
This can be called manufactured ignorance. Those who have been informed sometimes practice willful ignorance. I have also come to accept that perhaps a majority of people want to be watched and controlled just as they want to be ruled by powerful people. It is hard for some of us who are not that way to understand and accept.
> Until recently people simply were not aware that personally identifiable location data was gathered on
Is this right? For a long time now, every time I visit a restaurant I get a notification from Google suggesting that I should write a review. That should be sufficient to raise the alarm bells for even non-tech folks no?
Which warnings? I ask the question earnestly. As a developer with a clear sense of how the internet is structured, what browsers are and are not capable of doing etc I know the warnings myself. But for the population at large? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything that’s explained the consequences of pervasive advertising infrastructure to non tech inclined folks, much less something placed somewhere that people will actually see it.
Until recently people simply were not aware that personally identifiable location data was gathered on them to the extent that you’d be able to detect a visit to an abortion clinic. Or that period tracking apps are sending data in a way that can be later bought on a free market and tied to personal identification.
This is a failure of regulation, education and a media beholden to tech giants. I think we in the tech industry have some reflection to do as well. We understand the implications better than most yet many of us dutifully completed our work tickets to add tracking pixels to every page of the company site. We can’t do that then turn around and say “what, you mean you didn’t know that a Facebook Like button tracks every web page you look at even if you don’t click on it?!” and expect to be taken seriously.
Placing the blame at the feet of individuals that aren’t equipped to understand is a mistake, IMO.