Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Except one of the (standard) services of the bakery was "custom wedding cakes". And he didn't refuse to make some specific art that depicted homosexuality or whatever, he refused to make any custom wedding cake for a gay wedding. As in, they could have requested the exact same cake as a straight couple - let's say white, three tiers, pink icing - and he would have refused.

Just like if your 'service' is making meals to anyone who comes into your restaurant, you can't deny black customers. This seems like the same thing to me.




But it doesn't seem like the same to me. If he refused to sell a cake out of the display, it's an obvious violation. If he refused to take an order for a wedding cake, obvious violation. It looks like to me he refused to meet for a consultation on making a custom cake, which is something different. Maybe I am convoluting the process I went through with something different.

When I got married we could either fill out an order for a cake, and say we wanted white frosting, white cake with raspberry, to serve 200 people, etc by filling out their standard wedding cake form. Or, we could do a custom cake, where we had our own individual tasting of cakes and talked with the person about the details of what we wanted and design the details of the cake. The second option was not their standard service nor a standard cake, the first was. The first can not be denied, the second can (though your still a shitty person/business if you do). It's no different than an artist with a gallery. Anyone can buy their paintings, but anyone can't commission a piece. The artist has, not regency, I can't think of the word, but they have a say on who they take commissions from.

The point is this is why we need the ACLU. Someone who is willing to take the other side in uncomfortable/ugly discussions, so that we keep our rights. It is easy to give up rights. It's hard to get them back. I'm super uncomfortable with this discussion because I don't agree with the baker or what he did. But I think we need to be willing discuss infringements on rights, even when we agree with them.


It certainly is an uncomfortable discussion, although that often means it's an important one. I suppose I'd question whether the ACLU (or whoever) should push for the rights of the baker or the couple, since they seem to be at odds. Generally I think people have a right to run their business how they want, but also that people have a right to be free from discrimination based on their sexuality/race/gender/etc. I also don't agree with the baker, but I think I'd be uncomfortable with the state forcing him to create specific art.

I do see a distinction between denying a particular commision and denying someone even the option to request a commision though. If he refused to make a cake that said 'Jesus loves gay marriage' I probably think that should be allowed. But refusing to make any custom cake at all for a gay couple seems much different.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: