I'm sorry. It must be my age, but I don't really understand the comment. Was I supposed to be insulted? It may have fallen wide of the mark, if so.
I wasn't railing against anything that "I don't like." I was simply stating that I use MVC, on a regular, daily basis, and it gives me the results that I require.
And, I know, for a fact, that some of these patterns are used for exactly the reason that I stated. I know this, because I have talked to the managers that decided to use them, and that was the motivation. I don't even have an opinion on whether or not that is bad. Many of these teams do great work.
Maybe things are better, done in ways beyond my limited, saurian, comprehension.
All I can say, is that I'm able to churn out a lot of stuff, of extremely high Quality, in a remarkably short time, using these prehistoric patterns. I know that Apple developed the patterns they use, in order to allow very small teams to create high-Quality, high-performance apps, in very short time (again, because I've talked to some of the folks involved in writing UIKit). People like me, working the way I do, were what they had in mind, as they developed their frameworks.
SwiftUI looks pretty cool. I haven't used it much [yet], because I have yet to be convinced that it is suitable for ambitious, shippable projects. I'm waiting for it to develop a bit of momentum. At first glance, it doesn’t seem to be designed for MVC (but it may work great. I don’t know enough about it, yet, to be sure). I’m happy to learn up on whatever methodology works best for it. I learn quickly, and adapt extremely well. Been doing exactly that, for quite some time.
Nope, I just think you're wrong, sorry it came across as something more than that! I don't think this has much to do with the specific qualities of MVC (they're a lot of good things about MVC) or the problems of newer approaches (declarative UI doesn't fit everything, implementations are newer and buggier, etc). The 'made for chumps, not artistes' mindset/explanation ends up being statistically wrong, over the medium-ish+ term, just about all the time (60% of the time!) - a pretty great track record of wrongness which is interesting and useful in itself.
I'm sorry. I must be thick. I still don't really understand. It appears as if I am being told that I'm an "arrogant arteest."
That seems pretty insulting, to me. It might help, if you reached out, personally, instead of deciding my personality, based on a single post on an internet forum. I’m actually a pretty decent chap, and I’m not particularly up for online catfights. BTDT. I’m an old troll, and feel that I have some atonement in store.
> And, I know, for a fact, that some of these patterns are used for exactly the reason that I stated.
You've gone from "I strongly suspect" in previous comment, to "I know, for a fact"...
New methodologies are not necessarily designed for large teams of "unskilled engineers", just like old methodologies were not necessarily designed for "one or two skilled engineers"...
Actually, "I strongly suspect" is a rhetorical device that I use. I deliberately use ambiguous language, because exact language is often taken as confrontational.
As it turns out, I needn't have bothered. This was declared a p****ng match, anyway (I didn't mean it that way).
I guess the difference is who gets upset.
I wasn't talking about how they were designed (I apologize for unclear language in my initial posit that indicated that). I was talking about how they are used.
I wasn't railing against anything that "I don't like." I was simply stating that I use MVC, on a regular, daily basis, and it gives me the results that I require.
And, I know, for a fact, that some of these patterns are used for exactly the reason that I stated. I know this, because I have talked to the managers that decided to use them, and that was the motivation. I don't even have an opinion on whether or not that is bad. Many of these teams do great work.
Maybe things are better, done in ways beyond my limited, saurian, comprehension.
All I can say, is that I'm able to churn out a lot of stuff, of extremely high Quality, in a remarkably short time, using these prehistoric patterns. I know that Apple developed the patterns they use, in order to allow very small teams to create high-Quality, high-performance apps, in very short time (again, because I've talked to some of the folks involved in writing UIKit). People like me, working the way I do, were what they had in mind, as they developed their frameworks.
SwiftUI looks pretty cool. I haven't used it much [yet], because I have yet to be convinced that it is suitable for ambitious, shippable projects. I'm waiting for it to develop a bit of momentum. At first glance, it doesn’t seem to be designed for MVC (but it may work great. I don’t know enough about it, yet, to be sure). I’m happy to learn up on whatever methodology works best for it. I learn quickly, and adapt extremely well. Been doing exactly that, for quite some time.