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Tell HN: Turned 44 today and I'm lost
332 points by 0414throwaway on April 14, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 436 comments
Been professionally developing since my teens. Was the first person in the history of my university who was both a fulltime student and full time employee. Exceeded in all expectations at every job. Became the founding CTO of a start-up, put my heart and soul into it, and we sold for low 8 figures. Started a second company with some of the same people but directions started to diverge and I left. I moved to a different state for another job. Became a freelancer for a while. One of the guys who was at both start-ups recruited me into his current company with a total comp far exceeding what I asked for. All mortgages, car notes, and credit cards are paid off and our investments are enough for our day-to-day. I’m really only working for the health insurance.

But I've never been more unhappy and lost.

I used to joke that I would be dead by the time I was 40 though stopped because The Wife hated hearing it but I do feel like I have no plan past this point. Being in pandemic lock down during this time hasn't helped. I told my therapist that I feel like I've hit my mid-life crisis, though not your typical one as I'm not going out and buying a muscle car to cruise high schools. I know I'm depressed and have been for the majority of my life. Been in therapy for a while and tried various pills (didn't help), TMS (somewhat helped), and thinking about trying Ketamine.

I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out. I’ve been dreading this day because it’s a sad reminder of that.




A lot of comments have said "stay in therapy" or "quit therapy", but my immediate reaction is that maybe you have the wrong (ineffective) therapist and need to switch.

My spidey sense went up when you mentioned what "you told your therapist", full stop. I was at least expecting "what my therapist responded" or "what my therapist told me that didn't work". That really (spidey sense, no evidence really) implies that your therapist is having low impact.

I've had half a dozen therapists in my life. What I realized is there's a huge difference between most therapists and good ones. With a typical therapist, not much happens, you phone it in and they don't notice or call you on it. A good therapist somehow has a way of listening and then catching you properly off guard at least once or twice a session. They can stare into your soul and see through your bullshit, even when you don't notice the bullshit you're saying. If you don't feel that incisiveness, perhaps it's time to start shopping for a new therapist.

Therapy really is a 100x profession.


This is not a problem of therapy, but a question of meaning.

We need meaning in live. And for a long time religion gave that. But we threw that out. We now try to get "profesional therapy help". But it hardly has any scientific backing, and no one but religion has been able (even though it fails often) been offer te give any deeper answer to the question to "whats the meaning of it all".

The best solutions people like Robbins or J. Peterson offer are: just keep running so you don't think about it.


I used to think this, but I no longer do. I'm also mid 40s. People say that religion gives them meaning, but I think what it really gives them is community. Especially with the pandemic, all of the "automatic" ways that we used to run into friends and acquaintances have dried up. It takes much more active effort now.

While I'm surely projecting on to OP, I think it is very common for very career or goal-focused folks to have good but perhaps not overwhelming success, then hit their mid-40s and think "Umm, what do I do now?" This can be especially common for folks that perhaps sacrificed some of their personal relationships in pursuit of their goals.

I was very lucky in that I had a fantastic therapist who really helped me understand the roots of my depression. Even then, though, after a while insight can only go so far. It's very clear to me that I've neglected nurturing my friendships and relationships, and I think there are likely others out there in a similar predicament, especially on a place like HN. I've actually started to search for a life coach that can really assist with the tactical side of nurturing friendships. That was a big missing piece from my therapy, which was otherwise great.

On one hand it's kind of embarrassing to feel like I need to pay someone to say "Yes, it's been a while, you should call Jane", and "Did you mail your Christmas cards?", and "Did you send a thank you note to Bob?", and "Why don't you invite the Jones over for dinner?", but I've come to see it like a personal trainer. Most people know the basics of working out, but they need to pay someone to actually get them to exercise. On the friendship topic, for some folks this sort of "social knowledge" comes naturally - I've come to easily accept it's not natural for me and I need some assistance.

As far as I've seen from studies of happiness, basically it all comes down to "love", it all its different forms. Modern society makes it much more difficult to build a true sense of community and friendships. I think we all just need to spend the effort to find it without some of the "default" structures that used to exist in the past.


You might enjoy the book Tribe by Sebastian Junger. I think it underscores why people sometimes pine for the days that, on the surface, seem the roughest. Living in a poor community, or being in the military, or being in a conflict zone: they hyper-focus one's mind on the importance of community.


>We need meaning in live. And for a long time religion gave that. But we threw that out.

This is pretty much what Nietzsche was getting at in his often misunderstood quote about 'God is dead', which is actually part of a larger 'Parable of the Madman' - see here if you've never read it, it's pretty insightful IMO: http://www.historyguide.org/europe/madman.html


My understanding is that Nietzsche meant ‘truth’ was dead. Atheism and downfall of religion was not controversial at his time - he meant something else and was misunderstood because his message has become obvious only recently.

https://youtu.be/CkkgjxFcA5Y


So then a religious therapist. I think the takeaway is to seek professional help.


+1 for religion.

Do you have any religious affinity, @0414throwaway? What's your story there?


Jordan Peterson doesn’t say anything of the sort. “Work on something truly meaningful and hard.” Is a direct quote.


This begs the question, what is "truly meaningful"?

Does JP have a solid answer? Not that I've seen, though the last thing I saw was a year ago now, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rAqVmZwqZM. Other JP has a pretty good answer IMO. ;)


It is subjective to the creator.

What is meaningful ...to you?


The problem with religion is that the vices of hypocrisy and selfishness are rampant in the people who claim to understand it. The problem with the people without religion is that they don't understand anything and are usually just trying to grift people. Both are bad for humanity, the former actually worse because they pervert the meaning of this beautiful universe and what this life could be, if only people would go within and find the help to get beyond their selfishness.

The meaning of life is to simply be happy, but we cannot be happy when others are so unhappy, therefore we must live our lives for others' happiness. Every act of compassionate service to those around us causes an upwelling of happiness within our hearts. Only by living in a service-oriented society where we look after each other compassionately can we hope to find peace and happiness.

This world teaches us that selfish greed with a callous, willful ignorance of the suffering of others, is the goal of life, but that will always -- I mean always -- lead to a miserable, empty life, especially in this world full of woe.

The journey of religion is to go within one's self and seek God's Will for our lives, to ask in humility to become an agent of others' happiness. Then you will be guided to the path that will take you there. Ask every day and every night and be thankful for what you have such that you become a kind, generous person.

And remember that that selfish, ignorant Peterson guy perverted the teachings of religion for his own selfish enrichment and power, and that he has no peace (not without benzos that is). You don't want that fate. We must cultivate our compassion and sense of worldwide community. It is not only essential for our species' survival (via global warming and the brutal fascists all over the Earth), but for our own personal happiness and peace.

"The Way goes in." --Rumi


> The problem with the people without religion is that they don't understand anything and are usually just trying to grift people.

It is definitely possible to be a wise, insightful, compassionate and moral human being without religion.


This comment is extremely well written and on point.

In fact, I feel like I'm having the opposite of the "HN is turning into Reddit" illusion, where I feel that over the last year or two the quality of discourse on HN has improved (!): more and more, well-reasoned life advice floats to the top of comment threads. The thread about marriage and divorce had similarly good insights yesterday.

Either that, or I've just matured and I can appreciate it all more :)


I think an important part about therapy is the fact that you really do have to be willing to jump around a bit before you find a therapist who you are comfortable with.

All the therapists I've come across have been excellent at what they do. Yet, therapy is a 2 way process, and if anything, demands more of the patient than it does of the therapist. So if things are not working out definitely try someone else.


Absolutely. And even among good therapists, good fit is critical. Just because someone comes highly recommended by others doesn't mean they'll be right for you.


Add to the "choose your therapist" idea, the idea that maybe talky therapy alone might not work. Practical activities as a means of therapy recently helped me with my mental illness; specifically, doing outdoor crafts alongside other mental health sufferers, with day-long sessions led by professionals. I learned to whittle and to prune trees, and met new people, and conformed my life to a weekly routine. I felt a great sense of community, and satisfaction from the immediacy of working with wood. The therapy lasted eight weeks, with promise to do more in the future. It was very informal, with a little structured discussion at the start and end of each day, but no pressure to talk in depth about problems. The course has helped me more than talking with a doctor or trying CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy). It was a proper, medically referred course of therapy. I was told it's quite new. I'm in my late 30s, in case you're wondering. I live in the UK. I had been suffering depressive symptoms on top of my existing schizophrenia, feeling very lonely and like life had ended for me. The course reversed that. I recommend trying something practical and creative, with an immediately perceptible result (like whittling), and joining that community; if you haven't already tried. If you can access this through your doctor, then great.


He could also try Internal Family Systems (IFS). It's way better than cognitive behavioral therapy, IMHO, because it's about understanding the parts of the psyche. This includes the helpful, not so helpful, and parts that make us do negative behaviors and coming to terms with them instead of suppressing them.

I feel like my IFS trained therapist is actually a professional doing skilled work helping me explore and understand my personality instead of just being a rent-a-friend like my previous therapists.


I'm starting to have success with IFS. It's a bit weird at first. But I like how it actually listens to and tries to understand the various parts that make up your psyche, rather than just convincing them that they're wrong, like in CBT. I find CBT exercises helpful, but at some point we need more than just pointing out cognitive distortions.


Agreed wholeheartedly. I was recently listening to the podcast You Are Not So Smart with an interview from an author named Britt Frank [0]. She discusses exactly the problem with low value therapists and how they can actually be really harmful as part of a broader conversation about feeling “stuck”. I really recommend the episode. After listening, I ordered the book, but haven’t yet read it, so I cannot recommend the book just yet.

[0]: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/04/05/yanss-229-britt-fran...


Amen, important to try out different therapists and see whose style is the best for you.

With that said, I think it also helps to diversify your portfolio of meaning. Sounds like you identify "summit" and "zenith" as the latest happenings in your career, but depending on the season of your life, there will always be different ups and downs.

Found this article useful: https://every.to/superorganizers/against-ikigai


also has OP explored pharmaceuticals? I did a year of prozac, am off now, and it completely reset me. The hole I was in and was incapable of climbing out of by myself is now in the rear view mirror.

edit - I missed it in OP - but perhaps the same feedback, try something else? good luck OP.


My 2c: not all therapies are the same...

I recommend you start with a professional that works with `Cognitive Therapy` (from what I've heard it's one of the more recent therapies and its practices are based on evidences -- that's not the case for all therapies out there).


The problem with therapists is that they never say what they are doing, what approach they are taking or what techniques they are applying. This makes them less trustworthy, imho.


I wonder if any of that matters? Optimizing for the things you mentioned feels a bit like overkill. As a non-therapist, I don’t know whether one way of executing therapy is better than another.

I really think it’s simpler than that: find the closest therapist, do an eval session, and see if it fits. If not, try again with next closest. Personal referrals are good too.


You can likely just ask them, but either way I saw their methods plainly advertised when I went looking for an online therapist in early 2021.


Ask them, it's common now for them to advertise their approach (CBT, DBT, psychoanalysis, ect)


psychologytoday's actually a really great place to find these details for local therapists. specialties (trauma, relationships, kids, etc) and likewise training techniques (IFS, CBT, so on). It may have been harder pre-covid but I think covid's shaken up that industry quite a bit.


Absolutely agree, had this one therapist for my son who has ADHD, she would listen to all our concerns and not offer a single suggestion. She would just have this blank stare.


This is so true. It's not easy but the quality of the therapist makes all the difference


On average, people go through 4 therapists before they find one that works for them.


I'm in my late 20s, but I noticed that people live as if they are forever.

They spend half of their life working for survival, preparing and planning for their (!) future.

Some people die in the process and never live to see that future, but some people reach that point and become aware of the finite time that just elapsed.

Having physical needs met is trivial in our society. Everything beyond is self imposed suffering by comparing oneself to others.

But for what purpose? Just to have more than someone else? Just to be better than someone else?

Nobody truly cares. Nobody cares about how fancy the technology is that someone built to make people click more ads online - even if that someone thinks he is doing god's work.

We came to this earth naked and we will leave naked. Just like my parents did. Any material possessions and people will be left behind. Most of us will be forgotten 2 generations ahead or end up as UTF-8 characters on wikipedia.

I can at least walk joyfully in the present and not suffer my imagination about the future. I can also make a conscious choice to not indulge in activities that destroy the planet for others. I don't think the older generations see it the way I do.


"I sit in my cubicle, here on the motherworld. When I die, they will put my body in a box and dispose of it in the cold ground. And in the million ages to come, I will never breathe, or laugh, or twitch again. So won't you run and play with me here among the teeming mass of humanity? The universe has spared us this moment."

-Anonymous; Datalinks, SMAC

OP's piece and the SMAC quote really remind me of this art at the Met:

The Angel of Death and the Sculptor from the Milmore Memorial

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/10909

If you get a chance to see it in person, the faces, man, the faces. They are perfect for that piece.


> Having physical needs met is trivial in our society. Everything beyond is self imposed suffering by comparing oneself to others

Sometimes we have dependants that cannot ensure their own wellbeing (e.g. children). Sometimes we have good reasons to believe that we will not be able to work in the future (e.g. health issues).

Ensuring that you and your loved ones will have a decent quality of life regardless of your ability to work in the future can be a strong motivator to push your own boundaries today.


I will add something to it - many people want are afraid that they will regret somethings in the future. But at the end you won't regret a thing because you will not feel a thing. You are going to be dead and as hard as it is to imagine it - you won't think or feel. If you are religious you may have more thoughts about what is the next stage in your after life, but in any case it won't be thoughts about your current life. Just live each day to it's fullest and that's it.


What really is important is to find a balance between being in the moment and preparing for the future. If you don't prepare for your future, in the future you won't be able to enjoy your current present. However, if you only prepare for your future, you'll never enjoy what you prepared beforehand.


I am glad that you are in your early 20s and understand this fundamental life truth - I am in my mid-40s, met some friends this past weekend, friends since elementary school, some more successful than others, in the capitalist sense of the word, although all of us are pretty well grounded. One of my buddies, who had more fun than the rest of us was complaining how his 20's and early 30's were all about experiencing life - and he wished he had focussed on his career and saved more. But at the end of the day, he has more stories to tell that anyone else. At the tail end of life, those stories are all we have..


"The grass is always greener" seems to be a fundamental human condition.

Your friend wished he had focused on his career while the people who focused on their careers wished to have lived more experiences.

Married people wished they were single to enjoy the freedom and live a simpler life. While single people wished they met a SO to be less lonely.

People with stable high paying jobs like many developers, daydream about financial independence and quitting their jobs. While most other people dream of just finding a stable high paying job.

People from 1st world countries complain a lot about their own countries while most people in the rest of the world would literally die crossing the border to get there.

Young people wish they were rich. Rich people wish they were young.

And the list goes on and on. This seems to be something very human... Why do we think so much of the things we lack/didn't do but seem to forget what we have/have done?


Just to refute one of these as it’s a bit of a misconception.

> Married people wished they were single to enjoy the freedom and live a simpler life. While single people wished they met a SO to be less lonely.

What single people want is the option to not be single and to not be lonely. When people are married and wish to be single - it’s not that they wish to be lonely, it’s that they wish they could have more freedom. (This has little to do with marriage and more to do with other life choices. I know married people with more freedom than single people)

I think you’re oversimplifying things by ignoring the fact that people want both and not either/or. They want to be young and rich. They want to have their health and their wealth. They want to be single but not fucking lonely.

It’s really not that hard to understand when you don’t make false equivalencies and bullshit narratives.


You have summed me up pretty well. Have spent years trying to figure out how to just be content and happy.


I love this take. Refreshing to read. Thanks for your words. It has helped me slow down and enjoy my day.


This is just hedonistic nihilism. Works for some folks. Doesn’t for others. Let’s not write it down like it’s the end all be all for everyone.


There's definitely nihilism, but where is the hedonism in the comment?


Yes, you have reached the zenith of your career. Congratulations. You are self-sufficient and able to provide for the financial needs of your family. This is a true victory.

Now, it is time to focus on people other than yourself. Most other advice on here is awful; it amounts to different directions to run on the hedonic treadmill.

Instead, you have to give back now. What good is there to be done, that only you could do? What will be worse off if you don't lend a hand? This can range from finding better ways to support and mentor your children, to donating time to tutor students in programming, to building a well in Africa. Think hard about what you really care about, and then work hard to bring that into being.


I 100% agree with this, and it’s why we see a lot of lucky billionaires looking to give back to society. What do you do when you’ve reached the pinnacle of achievement? How can you make yourself happier when you no longer have unmet needs?

You start looking for ways to improve life for everyone else, and focusing on what kind of impact you want to have on the world. What’s something that has caused you or someone you care about a lot of pain? Could you help prevent someone else from going through that, or make it easier somehow? Maybe you can’t achieve something grand like world peace, but you can use your skills to improve education in war torn areas to provide new options, etc.

Start to think of the world as an extension of yourself. After you’ve honed yourself, hone the world.


This is exactly it. Being a part of a community brings joy, and having a positive effect on that community brings happiness.


100%. This dude has hit the endgame and has the freedom of financial independence. Time to open the alpaca farm, or the breakfast cafe.


Thank you for such a lovely and kind response.


There is no zenith. Own your life. Get out of your head.

Everything you've done up to this point has only been a prelude to whatever you choose to do next. If you choose to see those years as your zenith and stop doing anything, that's on you, it's not because you've supposedly reached some mythical temporal horizon. You've accrued experiences, skills, wisdom, perspective, understanding, relationships, and resources. If you can't see a way to turn those into meaningful next pursuits, then (again) that's on you. Don't make excuses for yourself.

Our culture unfortunately worships youth. We seem to think that life after 40 is downhill, but this just isn't true. From 40 to 70 or even 80 is a PRIME period of life. You have the things you need to do world-changing work, the confidence that comes from hard-won experience, and the tangible life experience to appreciate the meaningfulness and beauty of every single moment.

So-called "zeniths" are whatever you decide they are. If you reached your absolute best in one skillset, pick up a new one. Reinvent yourself and kick off a whole new career. Serve the people around you. Try to make the world better somehow for your having been here. There's no end of things you could do. Don't waste any more time with this angsty self-pity. Life is too fleeting and too wonderful to be so self-absorbed.


  >  Our culture unfortunately worships youth
Yes. This cult burns everything around it. The word 'wisdom' is rarely uttered, and even sounds ancient.


I'm not sure if this is not just an illusion. Young people are maybe a little more visible in meaningless parts of our society but almost all truly powerful and rich people are old. Don't fall into trap reading Forbes list and thinking that it shows any reminiscence of the actual power structure - most people is there only because they are in the business of self promotion. The real ones are those that are literally paying to stay out of the spotlight.


Well said. Just adding https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/jones-ben/htm/A... and https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-succes... for examples and specifics.


Just a cherry picked highlight to illustrate the point I think you're making

> The mean age atfounding for the 1-in-1,000 fastest growing new ventures is 45.0. [1]


Agree. The way I see it, not being in my 20s is an edge, not a liability. I don't have to suffer all the things young people are about to because I've already been through that part of my life. There's a lot you don't have to worry about any more once you get to the other side of it. Plus, I've had plenty of years to make mistakes and have a better sense of who I am (and who I'm not) and what I want (and what I emphatically don't) than ever. In my 20's everything was about screwing and appearances and destroying the old; now it's all about Love, Beauty, and Creation.

There's just no question to me—life really doesn't even begin to be amazing until all the noise quiets down sometime in the 30s–40s. That stage is important, we NEED to burn hot through that period and it's important, but it's by absolutely no means whatsoever some kind of "peak"—that idea is so much bullshit.

If there is such a thing as a "peak", I feel like it's probably more accurately something like the 50s, with a long tail through the 60s and beyond. Those decades make up (imo) the window where you can bring all the things you've lived to bear and live the culmination of all your insights—powerful stuff.


You're saying there are no TikToks dedicated to wisdom?! Impossible.


You have to re-evaluate how you measure your self-worth. When all you have done in your life is climbing some imaginary „ladders“ to „success“, then suddenly you will feel empty, if you have no other ladder to climb on.

And why do you think you have hit your zenith? Because you will not be able to redo the success that you have had and climb another ladder? But who have said that you should?

Beware, NO wonder pill or wonder drug will suddenly make your life easier, because (I suppose!) the issue lies with the purpose of life, not with some other biological reason. What is the purpose then? Well, there were a lot of smart people trying to think about this topic, you can start by studying them.


OP is in therapy, where you learn various techniques to manage whatever specific issues you're encountering.

What the meds do is make it easier to employ those techniques.

So while there is no wonder pill that will solve your issues, in certain cases if used properly they will definitely help.

I say this so that OP isn't discouraged from taking drugs because of comments of this variety that say true happiness comes from within - while it does, there are certainly things (like therapy and medication) that can at least put you on the right path. Like everything else, there can be a lot of trial and error to find the right ones.


I see this as a pure existential crisis and for that you don't need medication (IMHO). A lot of personalities tie their self-worth to an external measure (like some sort of "success" or whatever) and that could work for almost your whole goddamn life, heck, people can become aggressively successful, feeding that trait, BUT until this external measure dissipates. In case of OP they have admitted that they won't be able to repeat this mode of success: maybe too old, too tired, whatever. Suddenly, this uncovers the original issue of tying your self-worth or finding your existential purpose in this process of having/doing X. If you are measuring some X, and, objectively X is good, but you measure shit and are unhappy, clearly, the problem lies within the measurement system :)


Fair enough, but by the same token OP mentioned that he is sure he is depressed.

Depression can get in the way of finding joy in things, even things you once found joy in. This on top of other symptoms that can contribute to OPs feeling of dread so to speak, such as a lack of energy.

In therapy, you learn techniques to learn to manage this, and meds can help with this. They can have a number of different effects, and some can definitely have a positive effect.

Successfully managing symptoms can free up mind space to actually take action to alleviate the issue, such as your proposal to take inventory of what's actually important and carefully reanalyze and reassess how you're measuring success in life.

I'll end this by making sure it's understood that I'm not saying you can find a magic potion that will cure all your woes. Rather, medication is one weapon in the arsenal that can sometimes work successfully.

Anyway, this is all complicated and evaluated on a case by case basis, so I'm glad OP is actually in therapy.


I completely agree with you on all points you've said, especially the last one.


I think you hit the nail on the head. A good therapist will point this out as well.

The OP's entire self identity is wrapped up in their career - which explains, also, their great success. It's a common ailment in high pressure, high money industries, and especially common in tech. And now, the inevitable existential crisis when that is over - what now? They spent 20-30 years doing nothing but focusing on their job, and tying their self-worth to external validation.

I think what a therapist would say is to focus on yourself rather than extrinsic rewards. You need to learn to be happy with yourself and not rely on validation of others or society to do that for you. Finding a hobby that gives you a lot of personal satisfaction is one approach.


Wow, we're about the same age, but by most metrics, you've been so much more successful than I have.

FWIW I've long believed that many people should progress into a mentoring role at some point in their life. I've had that role several times in several different niches, and I love it, and it's extremely fulfilling. You could easily spend 20 years helping to raise and influence future generations.

If you aren't finding a suitable mentoring opportunity at your current role, I'd recommend looking at volunteer organizations. It can take a while to find a good fit, so don't give up if the first one doesn't work out for whatever reason. But, in general, I've found volunteer organizations to be full of passionate, youthful (if not young) people who are really energizing to be around. I ended up volunteering a lot with search and rescue because it fit well with my other interests, but there are myriad volunteer organizations looking for good people from all kinds of backgrounds.


You probably won't like this answer, but most people are lost in one way or another, they just put a brave face on it and pretend that they know what they are doing and why they are doing it. Find some older people to talk to and see how they managed getting through this phase, that will get you a lot further than talking to peers or younger people.


> You probably won't like this answer, but most people are lost in one way or another

The alternative is having lots of problems and being in an objectively bad situation. If you're just feeling lost, it means you have solved most of your problems - congrats! I find it never really gets much easier, or much harder.


I spent too many years ruthlessly perusing my career and passion for coding. Sure, I have a bunch of a money and my dream job but now what? I spent the last 8 years with a girl that I was certain I was going to marry. She cheated on me last month and I hit rock bottom. I didn't want to code anymore, I didn't even want to play games or get out of bed. I started working out, eating healthy, and improving myself however I could. I'm still not happy but I feel more alive than I have in years. I take chances, try to meet new people, say yes to things. Try taking a step back from your work and make yourself uncomfortable. Go try new things, meet new people, and put yourself into those weird and awkward positions. Your zenith doesn't stop at your career and wealth. Travel, try new hobbies, buy a fast car, start a project. Life has ups and downs. Stay strong bro.

EDIT: Ketamine might be totally fine... I just have negative feelings about it.


> Oh and I wouldn't touch Ketamine... Go trip on acid or do some ecstasy...

Uhh, I wouldn't recommend any of those substances that casually, especially if someone's not mentally at a good state. ESPECIALLY ecstasy - it can easily be neurotoxic if you don't know what you're doing, and leave you with permanent brain damage or death.

Also quick addendum - I'm not at all saying that these substances can't be amazing and helpful in the right situation... That last part is key. If you are well aware of the various risks (hyperthermia leading to death, serotonin syndrome due to interactions with SSRIs/MAOIs, "Suicide Tuesdays") etc then you may be better read and aware, but if these terms are foreign then please don't try such "hard" substances (MDMA is a stimulant after all).

Oh, and all this is not accounting for the risk of getting car/fentanyl cut in your tablet.


I have always been negative about Ketamine but I likely misunderstand it. After some research, it sounds okay. I'm not a big fan of using any substance as a solution to a problem but I understand why people do. I am not an expert and you can forget I said anything


I'm terribly sorry to hear how she treated you. It's a cliche, but as someone who has spent years recovering from such an experience, it's about her not you. It's amazing how hard things make us stronger, we'd never ask for them, but they also bring us places we may never have gotten to without the adversity.

It sounds like you're on a good path though, Stay strong bro.


Are you saying that having tried Ketamine as a cure for depression yourself or do you just have a bad image of the drug in your mind? Just curious because I would absolutely not suggest someone who is depressed take LSD, but there is growing evidence that ketamine can help specifically with depression.


If you waited 8 years to marry her, I'm not surprised she moved on...


cheating isnt moving on, its cheating.


>Oh and I wouldn't touch Ketamine...

I'm curious: why not?

Nice to hear you were able to get over it -or at least take the steps to eventually do. Inspiring honestly, keep at it.


Just a guess but probably saw lots of friends abuse special-k ( as did I ) and saw what it did to them while they were on it.

I think therapeutic ketamine is a different beast.

This is all speculation.


Selfish question to sharing such intimately: what are you doing to meet new people?


I started by reconnecting with anyone I could. Many of them are not people that I would previously consider being friends with (hence why we stopped talking). This isn't a great solution but it might put you in good situations.

Try going to social settings like downtown and not think too much about how "These are not my type of people" or "I don't want to be out partying all the time". You have to go out and approach people to meet new friends. It's uncomfortable and awkward. You'll get rejected and need to brush it off. I've even considered going out solo and just walking around and enjoying myself.


Caveat: this here website has about as much chance as giving you good advice as a post on a motorcycle or knitting forum. Maybe even less likely as people here are likely to share your pathologies. If you want above-average advice, you should be talking to qualified therapists.

I do note some interesting things about how you present your problem. You devoted an entire paragraph to your success and comfort. And in passing you mention that for a long time you've been rather morbid about your personal prospects past middle age. For someone who wants to talk about their depression, you'd think the emphasis there should be reversed.

I'm not saying you're bragging, I just think this indicates some potentially distorted thinking. Which is a huge opportunity for getting you out of this mess.

Some questions you might want to raise with a therapist: why did you think you'd be dead past 40 and why did you embrace that idea? Why do you present "the Wife" as the only opposition to that? You use a trope almost like your wife disapproves of you indulging in a vice, like trips to Vegas, but we're talking about the literal end of your existence.

I guarantee you'll discover interesting things, especially if your therapist uses processes like CBT and ACT, which are all about debugging your thoughts and assumptions. Also, some advice: lots of people call themnselves therapists or counselors, but I've found that those with advanced degrees are much better than not.


It seems like you have accomplished a lot and now you are in mid life crisis of what to do next. I would say if you have financial freedom already, why not do some things where you help others like volunteer etc ? I mean serious work and not just a weekend thing. We tend to live for ourselves so much that we sometimes forget we could give back to this world in our own ways. May be that will give your life some meaning ?

I say this because I am myself sometimes feeling lost even though I haven't accomplished as much as you and one thing that puts a smile on my face is when I help someone else, someone who is less privileged than me. I am now trying to find ways to really help others directly (not just donating etc but doing actual work).


I may be barking completely up the wrong tree here, but the first thing that came to my mind here was the situation described by Alain de Botton in Status Anxiety: namely spending a lifetime pursuing goals and values belonging to OTHER people (e.g. parents, society, etc), rather than your own. Then you achieve all these goals only to realise, what now.

Great book, well worth a read.

As an aside (same caveat about barking and trees), perhaps you just need a sabbatical. If you can afford it financially, there's nothing wrong with it, and can help you refocus.


Excellent book indeed. Was monumentally influential in changing my perspective on the world.


That is high praise. Could you elaborate a bit?


the book was made into a documentary as well, if you want something easier, though the book itself is highly recommended.

the main thing I remember changing my way of thinking was the notion that many of our goals in life are simply conventions passed down uncritically (e.g. by parents , society, etc), which if you examine you might realise you are trying to conform to, but don't actually align with your core values, and may even be making you unhappy for no good reason.

e.g. in some cultures it's the whole "you should be a doctor or a lawyer", which has led to people who would have been happy artists becoming miserable doctors and lawyers instead.


Maybe you have hit your zenith for that stuff in particular.

Things are exciting while you're getting all the wins of the low-hanging fruit. But then the wins get harder and farther between, and familiarity breeds contempt, and after a while I don't want to put in the effort for the next win. In that field.

So I switched fields. Now I'm an educator. And holy shit, it's something to step out of a decades-long developer career where you have a pretty good handle on it into a field that's radically different and you know nothing.

For me, it was a fresh start. I proudly look back on my time in a megacorp, my time in a dot-com startup, my time working in a AAA game studio, my time as an independent contractor, my time in the business I cofounded... Good times. Worth it. But now, tiresome to think about continuing.

Luckily I've entered the new world of education, with so much to learn, and so much to explore, and so many new ideas that are with pursuing, and so many challenges. I'll probably never write software for hire again, and that's fine with me. I got my own stuff to work on, and it keeps me plenty busy.

Two more things:

For me, 50 was the hard birthday. Can't pretend you're 39 anymore. But on the plus side, some liberation comes with that. You don't need to pretend you're 39 anymore. Let that wisdom show through.

Anecdotally, some people have had success with shrooms for finding their way. Not saying that would be you, and I'm no expert, and everybody's different, but it might be worth some investigation.


Heartedly agree. Started teaching and there is something magical about interacting on a different level completely than with work colleagues. I'm learning as much as I teach, the result will be a simple book based on my lectures as over time they start to coalesce with a clear idea of who I am and what I want to leave behind in the world.

I teach in a way that doesn't interrupt much my 'day job', so it leaves a lot of opportunity to weave the energy back into my work.


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31030254

We should connect. ;)


Actually, that is typical. Most people don't go out and buy muscle cars. They suffer quietly.

That being said, welcome to mid life where you realize nothing matters and the points are meaningless. Have to figure the meaning out for yourself. There's no way around it. Best of luck.


I'm 43. Did the startup thing, to differing levels of success. Freelanced on projects I found interesting.

I'm probably not going to do anything too interesting on the grand stage again. Kids have slowed me down. I'm still sharp, but not as sharp or hungry. Yes, I'm a little sad to say goodbye to all of this, and a bit sad to see time slowly running out. All of the past situations, people, cultures, etc that I can no longer return to are a source of profound nostalgia and wistfulness, too.

I became a teacher (nominally half-time, but I end up dumping a lot more effort into my programs). I run robotics teams and engineering programs at a private school. The job contains all I like about working on engineering teams: fun problems, coaching "junior engineers", etc. I get to be ambitious-- teaching middle school students computer architecture from transistors to gates to combinatorial & sequential logic to ALUs and register files all the way up to machine code.

Um... it's super rewarding sometimes, and sometimes super not. But it is, definitively not just meh and empty. That's what's important to me right now.


Stop complaining. I am the same age as you, plus or minus a year. I am homeless, destitute, and broke. No assets at all, no retirement at all. Not even a car, or even a bicycle. I don't have a bank account. I was top of my class in (engineering major at a t{1,2} uni). Failed startup, sabotaged startup, victim of crimes and false criminal accusations. Now, no wife, no future. I fight suicidal urges constantly and keep a method handy in case things get bad enough. My means to survive are limited to none, and my future is bleak.

I write this comment to you from a public library with no clean clothes, food stamps that will run out well before they refill, a disability that cannot be properly treated, and a totally ruined career trajectory.

Stop fucking complaining. Cherish what you have. Focus on your physical health. Go walk 10 miles a day -- EVERY DAY -- for a year. Yes, that is over 3,500 miles. Get good shoes and stretch often; eat clean. Flush those damn meds in the process. Then report back.


I'm a lot closer to your situation than the OP, and you're right, it sucks. But don't be so harsh, I'm pretty sure that if I was in the OP's shoes I'd have to deal with similar challenges.

Scrabbling after the means for survival isn't any more or less noble than scrabbling after meaning in one's life. One is merely a prerequisite for the other.


This is the wrong way to approach mental health and privilege. All suffering/experience is relative to the individual. Your using the same "starving kids in Africa" argument and it is irrelevant.


> I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out. I’ve been dreading this day because it’s a sad reminder of that.

Sounds like you need to take some serious time to consider who you are. Not the person who accomplished these things in life, but the reason you were given a body and put on this planet to do something.

I had a similar moment after I read "Man's search for meaning" by Frankl. That led me down a 5 year journey to better understand what life is all about. I explored many philosophies, practices, and texts to get closer to an answer. I found my "Ikigai" along the way as well through writing.

Nobody knows what they're doing in life, but I do believe I have a much better understanding of what I'm doing in life because I put the time in to better figure out who I am.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai


I’ve read Man’s search for meaning by Frankle although it was moving, his personal motivation / source of meaning (religion) doesn’t work for those who aren’t religious.


"We can discover the meaning of life in three different ways: (1) by creating a work or doing a deed; (2) by experiencing something or encountering someone; and (3) by the attitude we take toward unavoidable suffering."

This is the key takeaway from that book for me, no religion needed.


Great book! Frankl can really put things into perspective. I can second reading this.


Find God...

I'm going out on a limb and will guess you don't have kids and your not religious... tell me if I'm wrong.

You need purpose. you're the first year pro quarterback who wins the Super Bowl. You peaked too soon. What's left?

We're not designed to be fulfilled through material riches. Your satisfaction in your work has run its course and you still have an emptiness inside you can't fill.

Having children gives you a natural purpose and a connection to the future. You have the means, ability, and education to be able to raise them well. It's not too late. Do it.

And... Find God. This life is more than success in a career. You're feeling that now... No amount of therapy or pills will fill that void...


What does find God really mean? Just start believing in something I don't believe in? How does having found God fill your life with purpose or drive?


No one seems to be talking about this being a normal part of the stage of life you're in. The 40's are typically the most miserable decade in a person's life, and this is well documented. The major caveat to that is "I know I'm depressed and have been for the majority of my life" - which adds a different wrinkle. But that it's getting worse now is to be expected.

Some readings, which have been helpful for me (I'm also in my 40's):

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-rauch-happiness-...

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2F...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327097311_You_Only_... (particularly starting at pg. 37)

Bottom line: this is a natural transitionary period. To make it successful requires embracing that.


At the end of the day we're all monkeys who have been biologically incentivized, since the first cell to ever exist, to survive long enough to pass on our genes.

As Dawkins covers in The Selfish Gene, sometimes this can manifest in abstract ways, like helping pass your genes by supporting your nieces age nephews (or even more abstractly, helping humans in general live on). You haven't mentioned anything in your life that is involved in helping create the next generation of humans.

In fact, you've mainly mentioned your journey has been materialistic, and even your solutions seem related to chemicals. Maybe the game you're even trying to play is what's inherently depressing.

My advice would be to a part of the world where people are suffering and try to help them, that'd likely give you the fulfilment and perspective you need.


There are people suffering everywhere, no matter where you are in the world, you never need to travel far to find people who are way worse off than you.


I started my forties with a major health crisis and I can relate. If you want to talk to someone, my email is in my profile.

Ultimately though, I had to find other things and live a more balanced life. In my case, my health scare was such that fitness and nutrition became passions. I hope you can find a passion that works for you. It's okay to discover new things, rekindle old hobbies and do things that don't make sense from the outside.

Good luck friend and I'm sorry you're going through this. I can completely relate, it sucks and there is quite literally nothing I can say. :(


Did you go through it alone?


None of us live forever but I think for many people, the ultimate hope is to make a difference, to leave the world slightly better than we found it, to invest our skills into progress and removing some of the evil we find around us.

If you can find what you really enjoy doing and turn that into an investment into the planet and its population then you get to arrive at your death bed really believing you did something valuable with your life.

As they say, few people wish to have earned more money or spent more time at work, they wish they invested in people, in communities, into the less fortunate etc.

Good luck. I'm two years older than you and still feeling like some of my best is yet to come!


The world can't satisfy the human soul. You're having an Ecclesiastes moment. Therapists are secular pseudo-preists and can't solve a problem of meaning when they can only work within an a-teleological paradigm. I'd recommend the book "Nihilism, the Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age" by Fr. Seraphim Rose, an Eastern Orthodox convert who went on to co-found a monastery in California. There are pdfs and epubs available online, as well as an audiobook on YouTube.

If you look for meaning you'll find what you're looking for, and not in an arbitrary intellectually dishonest way either like the evangelicals etc do


Allow me to tell you what I would consider doing if I were, as you are, pretty much set financially. Maybe this will be of use to you.

- buy and renovate a house in my town for my mother to live in as often as she is able to (she lives far away, with a separate family)

- take my mother to the country her family emigrated from, for a nice long trip

- spend a year in the country my wife is from, getting to know her extended family far better than I do

- run for local office in my rural community in order to fight for safer bike and pedestrian access to roadways

- spend a year or so studying to homeschool my daughter (if you want to learn something, try to teach it)

- get involved with a really cool local youth outdoor adventure group, perhaps even find a way to get hired (insurance!)

- identify the most effective means to tackle voter suppression tactics and fund it and otherwise help implement it

- build a wooden boat

- take my hobby fermentation hobby to a retail level, if not a distribution level

- go deep, in one way or another, on any one of the open source projects I am super interested in

- learn to play one of the instruments I put down as a kid (long list!)

- build or/and run a parenting community site that doesn't exist where I live

The grass is always greener, but boy would I love the ability to drop my busywork that pays the mortgage and do some of the above. Maybe, if you imagine yourself in my shoes, you can come up with some ideas that get you excited.

> I feel like I've hit my zenith already

I peaked in high school, and I realized that long ago. The company of a group that cares if you are on your way up is probably not going to give you much solace.


Midlife crises stereotypically result in a a sports car or a mistress. These days they might take a whole other form: Belatedly having kids! Talk about distraction from life going downhill from here. It still sucks, you just don't have to dwell on it.

Getting fit really helps, especially if you've never been athletic. I love cycling and have always done a lot of it, but COVID and WFH changed the nature of it. Instead of a "baseline" of bike commutes and extra sporty rides on top of that, it was all sporty rides. And while Strava reminds me that elite athletes can climb a hill over twice as fast as I can, and naturally athletic people in my age group are still 5-10% faster, it's still fun to try to beat my segment time up that hill and then it has knock-on benefits like better sleep, and even motivation to shed a few pounds because that too will help the hill climb time.

Markus


I hear you friend, you've been to the highest of highs and lowest of lows and now are like a surfer back on dry land thinking of the last big wave, or a soldier back from war wandering around a flower garden. The cognitive dissonance of your otherwise great life with the life you thought you would be living makes every moment unenjoyable and meaningless.

As someone in healthcare who takes care of depression, the pills, TMS, and ketamine are not meant to cure depression. They are meant to decrease the risk of impulsivity, improve function, and decrease suicide.

To get out of depression, you have to find meaning again in the life you were given, and then faithfully follow that which gives you meaning so that you do not become lost again.

Religion is perhaps mankinds best answer because many philosophers who thought about these very questions of meaning were religious thinkers. Ecclesiastes is a great book to read.


24 ¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Lookup a mystic by the name of "Sadhguru" on youtube and watch his videos, also check out jason gregory. It's totally eye opening and life changing. You NEED this.

I can't possibly explain it all in one post. but, to give you a hint: everything we strive for in the outside world is all for naught. At the end of the day, what matters is your internal state of mind, how you process inputs. we keep trying to rearrange the outside world, as if the outside world was a representation of our minds.


Oh, please. Sadhguru is a politician who talk pseudoscience and a tool of current Indian Government.

https://scroll.in/article/927625/opinion-the-disturbing-irra...


Look, I'm not saying everyone will agree with everything he says/teaches and you don't have to. He's asked about literally everything and he's no expert on Everything nor does he claim to be.

But, his core teachings are truly fundamental to all human beings. His core teachings are not about pseudoscience/politics, it's about how we maintain our state of mind and how we see the world around us, something the author of the post is severely struggling with.


Sadhguru is literally a fraud who swindles people in the name of religion. If he really cared about spreading his teachings, he wouldn't be taking thousands of rupees for his isha yoga courses. Ironically he's right now biking across two continents to spread awareness about pollution.


I disagree. I follow him for years now. He has done nothing but good for humanity.

dude, so you want a free yoga course, and so he is a fraud!

I’ve attended inner engineering course by paying $375, and it has worked like a charm - priceless.


I dunno if Sadhguru is the best guide when it comes to depression: https://www.altnews.in/depression-the-myths-falseness-of-sad...


Sadhguru, has helped me.


+1 for Sadhguru. He is awesome. Search him up on YouTube.


What I see is about the metrics of professional success. I'm not sure if its just the venue you are posting on (a career developer/startup forum) or if you truly encapsulate your life to these old events.

> Was the first person in the history of my university who was both a fulltime student and full time employee.

Okay? Why is that something to brag about. Like when you deconstruct that, is it really something to brag about? Its fine that you wound up having the capacity to excel in that situation, and have external validation that you did, but is the environment that pushed you into that really useful... for you? Congratulations on being able to provide for yourself and others. What are you actually interested in? What would be a better use of that bandwidth if a degree and professional attainment wasn't your goal?

> I’m really only working for the health insurance.

Come on. So half to 100% of the premium is paid by your employer. Okay. Is that really making a difference? You can likely keep the exact same plan without that employer and your investments should be able to cover that as well, if your past successes were really worth it (literally in this case) as described above, deep down you knew that right?

> But I've never been more unhappy and lost.

Back to my original point. Are these really the highlights of your life? That seems to be the primary point. You won the career-necessity game. You beat the wage-slave level.

Do you have other interests? Are you interested in having other interests? Sounds like you need serotonin and dopamine kickstarts.

> I told my therapist that I feel like I've hit my mid-life crisis, though not your typical one as I'm not going out and buying a muscle car to cruise high schools.

Not like other guys(tm). You're not special and your prior professional accomplishments have delayed you from accepting this earlier in life. Maybe you do need to buy the muscle car and see what you were missing. You might find that you like it.


I had a major crash and burn a year or so into my 40s. According to my post-collapse thereapist this was a really predictable thing among single, male academics, and not all that uncommon amongst other academics entering their 40s as well as non-academics of the same age. The blind rushing forward for the sake of not much more than blindly rushing forward tends to start to get frayed at the edges due to a number of things, not the least of which is the inevitable ravages of age starting to invade your psyche. I got out of the funk via self-administered cognitive therapy. You just have to keep asking yourself questions about why you're anxious, afraid, upset, etc. about various things, find reasonable answers, and keep telling yourself those answers until you've changed how you internalize and react to such things. Staying busy with things you enjoy - i.e. typically NOT work - also helps given how busy hands and attendant busy minds have less time to attack themselves. Such phrases as "don't worry, be happy", "live for the day", "gain the wisdom to know what you can and can't change", etc. have become hoary, cringeworthy cliches, but like all cliches they do contain a kernel of substance. We live in accelerated times where we're in a mad rush to get somewhere, although we typically don't have a really good idea just where. The last stop on the train route is the same for everybody. Those who reach the end are differentiated by how much they enjoyed the ride, and if you're not enjoying the ride you really, really need to ask that mirror why and get some honest answers.


I'm 41 and I can understand the existential ennui of being capable and not finding satisfaction in it, or life. I hate each passing birthday as it seems to mark yet another failed year of finding content; hopefully, you can intellectually see that, when I say it, it isn't true and worth trying - what else can one do?

I've also been medicated on SSRIs (in my opinion, they were only worth it when I was going to kill myself), had therapy (good, up to a point for me, but worth pursuing with an open mind, especially when you are in a mental health crisis; sounds like you are), and tried some alternatives (shrooms have worked well to shift me out of prolonged depression when the standard meds and therapy were not helping; have a look at https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-022-01744-z, also a great interview with David Nutt on MedLifeCrisis)

Perhaps you might find Healthly Gamer useful as well (https://www.healthygamer.gg/, interviews on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClHVl2N3jPEbkNJVx-ItQIQ). It has been useful for me. The interviews have helped me over the last 6 months not to feel as isolated. They also gave me insight into my therapy and the workings on my mind.

Good luck and I genuinely hope you are able to find a more content existence.


With ref to the shrooms, be cautious if you have a family history of psychosis/personal psychotic episodes


Learn to complain better.

Seriously. There's a theory about learning and creating addictive games created by Jean Piaget [long story goes here]. Basically, if you don't feel the need for a change, the gut feeling that the universe is out of balance, you won't change.

It's perfectly fine to accomplish a lot and feel at ease. Being lost, however, means that there is somewhere you want to be but can't get there. Work on where that is, then you'll know more about why you're lost.

Apologies for sounding like Yoda. At some point, most all of us are happy, accomplish meaningful things, maybe take a victory lap. Yay. Contentment is the secret to happiness. You can have a happy life or a meaningful one. They're not the same thing.


I have found that when I feel lost, it's usually an indicator that I'm missing one leg of a three-legged stool:

1) Mastery: I need some skill that I feel like I can work at and improve; ideally at a level just at the edge of my competence to continually stretch myself

2) Autonomy: I need to feel like I have the ability to direct my efforts to a certain degree. With your financial resources, I would think you have this one covered.

3) Purpose: The work needs to provide meaning and align with my personal values.

Note that these don't need to be defined by a vocation. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with using a vocation to fund whatever activity/activities meet the above. Ironically, that helps give even a dead-end job some purpose.


Woah, this hit hard. I'm trying to figure out why I'm unsatisfied by a wonderful job, and it's missing #2, around my time.


Do you find that all these need to come from the same activity? Is it ok if you for example have autonomy at work and are pushing your mastery on wood carving in the evenings and are getting purpose from feeding the poor on the weekends?


I think it is okay to get ones needs from different places. It is ideal when one can find a perfect fit where they all align but it’s not necessary to strive for that.


Seems like you need to find some higher meaning in your life.

Ultimately at some point do you live for yourself or do you live for someone/something else?

King Solomon was the richest wisest man alive and yet in Ecclesiastes he seems to despair and says everything is meaningless.


You don't have to work anymore. You won the game. You don't have to play anymore. Or, you can play the unstructured bonus content.

I never got the appeal of open-world sandbox type games either.

If I had what you had, I would just: 1) raise my kid 2) build stuff 3) write fiction 4) consume without guilt (media, restaurants, hobbies and gadgets, etc)


I think in any rate there's something to be said for just taking a proper break for an entire year if needed. Why not take a year to just focus on raising the kids, sleeping in if you can, taking it slow and easy. The energy should come back if you give yourself time.

I also agree that lifting weights is a very good idea, but don't stop seeing your therapist.


It’s just a burnout, happens to everyone with the same career.

You need to take time off (just pay for health insurance) and concentrate on health and sport, sleep, hobbies and other not-work-related projects that were lucking due to demand of work. You will fill better very quickly, and maybe will have desire to work again in two-three years. You will know when it comes - you will be excited about some new project. For now concentrate on essentials ^^^.

(I’m at the end of my burnout cycle, so it gets way better eventually)


This might be an un-popular opinion, but:

You've been playing a young man's game, seem to have done well, but are no longer young. You sound like a retired footballer.

So, start playing a game where you continue to get better as you get older. Then it's all up rather than down. Business is such a game. Invest, buy, build, whatever.


If it helps at all, my 40s were my favorite decade so far. You sound like a person who really has a tremendous amount to offer. You just need to figure out what you want to do and what gives you joy. I am not a magical genius who can figure that out for you, but since you can definitely afford it, I'd agree with the folks who are suggesting a vacation or some kind of volunteer work.

You mention how much of your life you have devoted to your professional development. Perhaps it's time to be selfish and think just about you and your personal development.

I also don't think ketamine, or psilocybin, would be a bad idea. Many people have gotten lasting benefit, and relief from depression, out of those substances. If you do try one of them, do so in a peaceful, controlled setting, with a very trusted person around. And a lot of art materials! ;)


40s were the worst for me. Marriage fell apart when I was 39, and my 40s are sort of a blur of just getting from one day to the next.


Sorry to be nosey but what was the cause for your marriage falling apart? Just interested, thanks


My midlife crisis vanished once I bought a Mach-E. Not even kidding :)

Just keep in mind that you are extremely lucky and privileged. Hundreds of millions of Americans would kill if they could say:

"All mortgages, car notes, and credit cards are paid off and our investments are enough for our day-to-day. I’m really only working for the health insurance."

Maybe you want to explore charity work or helping others achieve what you have achieved.

And, yes, the amount of energy you can pour into things will become lower as you age. I feel it every day having gone back to coding (from a CTO job) but I'm trying not to focus on it too much.

I recently discovered Stoicism which is very helpful.


Are you wealthy enough to not work now?

I ask because there is a lot more to life than working and it sounds like there might be a few work related things going on:

1) You don't need to work anymore for money

2) You've wildly succeeded in your career and may never top those experiences

3) Given your work success, I wonder if maybe you're a workaholic or that work is too large a part of your life

Any of those ring a bell?


Wife and I decided to have a kid a when I was around 40 (she's younger) as our daily life seemed to lack real purpose. We never had a strong desire to be parents but another several decades of work, netflix, sleep with a few vacations and nice restaurants sprinkled in to break up the tedium just didn't sound fulfilling after having done exactly that the previous ~15 years. It also coincided with some other health related stuff that made us really have to evaluate a now or never type decision on kids. We decided we'd probably regret it if we didn't.

I'm still somewhat aware that I'm having a mid life crisis but it's more of a feeling of wanting to enjoy my kid being a kid before he outgrows me and nothing else really matters. I don't chase money or work accomplishments, never really have, but they do pull at me and now I push back a lot more. So a massive shift of prioritization is in place where I prioritize my social calendar (or kids) over my work calendar at all cost. I really have no relationship with my dad (by choice, but with reasons) so I now often think that is my primary objective to make sure my son wants to keep me in his life as an adult. So in a large part I'm just trying to not repeat the mistakes my dad made with me... but I also really enjoy my kid and want to spend time with him, so it helps.

Anyways, good luck with finding yourself on the other side of the hill. Maybe my story will help you in some way.


Great response!


You're in an excellent position today. Here's my recommendation as a random HNer whose found success with this (We differ somewhat... my joke was dead by 60 :P ).

1. Spend a month visiting national parks. It's almost May which means Utah is PERFECT! Go to Bryce Canyon and Zion (make sure you cycle in the valley at Zion). Check out the eastern Utah parks too. Swerve down to Arizona and check out the Grand Canyon. Don't bring any access to work... none whatsoever.

2. You might love this so much that you want to go to Europe next. Assuming you're not off exploring the planet...

3. Work on software that is in a completely different business domain. Even contributing to open source instead of a for profit is a great idea but I recognize health insurance may be a problem for you then. Have some interest in finance? Work on investment tech. Have some interest in robotics? Work on drones. Do something tech that is nothing like you've ever done before.

4. Do you cook? If not, start cooking. I recommend highly rated asian stir fry sauces to start. It's just fun working a wok :) . Maybe give Hello Fresh or one of the other delivery services a try for the variety. A surprising number of people find intense inner happiness while getting good at cooking.

5. Report back.


Meaning comes from narrative.

The most powerful narratives are the biggest narratives.

Most big narratives are non-verifiable or non-empirical narratives, e.g. "the creator of the universe died for your sins out of love for you".

Find the biggest narrative that satisfies your epistemological standards and you will also find the most meaning for yourself.

Your narrative need not change how you live your life, it simply provides context—a bigger picture for every action you take.

For me, this is darwinism.


Man you should enjoy your life. You have no idea how fortunate you are, and here you are feeling unhappy. I don't get it. People out there really struggle to get by day-by-day. I am sorry, but I can't feel sorry for you.


Because everybody suffers. Everybody.

It sounds like he's had the idea that if he flogs himself working hard, then there will be a payoff, and having done that for 25+ years, the result of his hard work is that it's brought him to a point that logistically and financially has left him secure and settled, but nevertheless has not delivered the expectation that the end point of hard work would be contentment. Now his complete lack of deep and meaningful contentment has left him feeling empty and he's now suffering because of that.


I am close to be financially independent. But I wish I was already. I have so much stuff to do, traveling, spending time with my family. Not having to worry about your day-to-day will lift so much burden and bs. I just can't understand how people who have already made it, struggle with finding purpose in life.

As we type on this keyboard, children out there in world are dying starving, or because of some war .. and here we are wining.

My grand father spent his youth fighting in a fck war! And after that he spent years working in a foreign country, to provide the means for his family to survive.

I can't possible empathize with this guy, I am sorry.

Get your s*t together and be grateful for what you have.


Report back to us once you're independent and secure.

You're right - it doesn't seem to make sense that we suffer with all kinds of problems when there are more important things happening. But nevertheless, we still suffer all the time, and a lack of contentment at our core at a time of peace can be such a reason for suffering. In the midst of a war, life is heightened, and so there's no time for this more superficial level of dissatisfaction to emerge. But nevertheless, I can't imagine that you'd suggest to OP to go and fight as a mercenary in Ukraine as a way of relieving what he's finding difficult.


I'm sorry you have to go through this. The human psyche is truly marvelous at generating unhappiness. If you are don't have anything and haven't reached your potential you are unhappy because you feel like a loser. If you are on the upswing and growing you might feel unhappy because you didn't make it yet. And when you made it, well, that's when you are unhappy because you are past your zenith. Why is it like this? Who knows, but the Buddhist have some good ideas about it, I find.

From personal experience (I used to lie on the couch wishing I'd die every day for weeks) I can recommend the following three things:

* Move your body in sunlight. I'm not talking about becoming ripped or doing and Ironman or something crazy, I am simply talking about doing an amount and intensity of exercise you can sustain a couple of times a week every week outside when the sun is out. Once I did this for three weeks or so I found that this dreadful feeling of emptiness faded and that I hardly felt discontent anymore. These feelings return when I stop doing that which usually is my trigger to start again.

* Read & follow the book "The Happiness Trap" <https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Trap-Struggling-Start-Livin...> I'd credit this book with the single biggest impact on my life. I remember crying from relief after doing one of the exercises.

* When you got yourself together somewhat I'd recommend having a child. It's the most fun and satisfaction I ever had in my whole life and it makes everything else so much better.

I hope this is useful to you and that you get better soon.


All you've listed is the things you did for yourself. If that's all you did - do for the others. It might be more fulfilling than you think.


One of the hardest lessons I've been learning is that I need to "choose" what I want to be and then do it. When the responsibility fades a bit after hectic decades, it can feel pretty empty. Do you want to become really awesome at DnD, woodcrafting, body building, church service, etc?

Pick 1 or 2 and double down. Choose what you want to become and give yourself a goal rather than inheriting one.


Have you read How to fail at everything and still win big?

His advice is essentially everyone needs: 1. Good food 2. Exercise 3. Friends 4. Something to look forward to (working towards some goal)

How are you doing in these 4 areas? Tackling the first 3 gives you good energy and general vibe. For #4 there is no end to what can be achieved, so always possible to select a goal. Just need to find something that excites you.


yes, I feel like this is exactly what the OP needs right now. If I may add something, starts small, don't aim too big, maybe looking into how you're going to improve yourself physically or doing a x numbers of voluntary work for y community, just keep it simple then you'll builds your next goal naturally. At the end of the day, I believe life is meaningless and you are the one who is defining the meaning of your life.


Generally speaking, if you don't know how to solve your own immediate problem, and you have the means, it can be helpful to solve someone else's problem. A lot of people are suggesting volunteering, etc, and that's what I'm getting at too.

Specifically, when people use capital letters and an indefinite article to refer to "The Wife" it is also usually time to get a divorce.


+1 on both points. And you don't have to solve anyone else's problems for volunteering to be very helpful. Just dishing up the mashed potatoes and peas on a good soup kitchen serving line can do wonders to expand your mental and social frameworks.


I found myself in a similar spot recently. I'm making more money than I need as an exec of a VC-backed startup, and the work needed from me in the current company doesn't fill my time.

I've started pouring myself into charity work and mentoring younger executives, engineers, and data scientists. It's different, but I love it. It's really fulfilling.


I have a similar story. Although not quite as old, accomplished or rich, i started as a teenager and could retire comfortably at 50. One thing I don't see mentioned by others is that ultimately, helping and giving to others can bring huge meaning to life. One does not have to go far on this planet to see hardship, suffering and injustice. You could choose to work for a company that has a more direct impact on people's lives. Or you could volunteer in your spare time. When I retire I intend to work on software and IT support for community groups, non profits. Give free consultation to human rights organizations. Volunteer at local repair cafes, teach children how to hack on Raspberry PIs... Invest in small businesses in Africa, help them bootstrap. There is endless work to be done to improve the world, and frankly I find people who are less self centered (not a criticism btw) seem to be happier.


I’ll be blunt: It’s the height of egotism to believe you’ve seen it all. There’s always something new to explore and understand. Curiosity is the opposite of ennui, which it sounds like is what you have.

You finally have the freedom to do things because they’re interesting, not because you need the money. Make the most of that golden opportunity!


If you need some inspiration, consider this comic: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-09-02


I'm in my 30s and I know I've already peaked. On top of that, I never had the compensation like you talk of.

What's wrong with being done at 40? Maybe move into some low paying job where you can coast and focus on non-work stuff. Maybe buy that muscle car and go to AutoX and track days (basically find a hobby with a community).


If you really are financially independent (congrats!), I'd suggest trying to do things you WANT to do or are curious about. Go back to school to learn something new or different that's interesting, try working different kinds of jobs, volunteer with different types of organizations, or try new sports or activities. Basically, do something not-tech. Do something you're not currently good at and don't have 20+ years worth of opinions on. Do something, with your whole self, which isn't computers.

It sounds like you're more financially successful than >99% of 40 year olds. You've earned the right to try new things. Do it! But also, keep doing more and possibly better therapy or a different therapist.


Feeling emphathetic. Per other comments, pls take my advice with a grain of salt.

I am no way as successful as you are, and yet feel I have been in a midlife crisis every year of my life since I was 20. Now that the world sees you as successful, if you could just do what you wanted, regardless of everybody's opinion, what would you do? Where would you find energy and passion? Many of us follow what society tells us is success but we'd rather be fishing, writing poetry, daydreaming, be small-town pastry chefs just for the pleasure of it. If you could do something crazy that is a source of pleasure and joy, what would you do? Can you pursue it as a hobby, or a job (not needing some glorious long term goals)?


If you're in the position financially to choose what you work on and not care about compensation, I have to say that's a very enviable place to be.

You obviously have talent and drive. Your problem now is you have nothing to direct them towards.

Perhaps you've noticed, the world is pretty fucked up right now. Why not get involved in something that matters? A nonprofit. Politics. Activism. Think a lot about what your talents could do to make a difference in the world if you apply them in the right place. It doesn't have to be a huge difference. Maybe you help a few families or even just one other person.

Your talent, your health, your financial situation are gifts from the universe. Pay them back.


In a similar situation as yours. Not a magic pill, but I found a couple reads very useful:

A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy, by William B. Irvine

The subtle art of not giving a f*ck, by Mark Manson (the book is a lot more interesting than the title suggests)


When you sold the first company, how did you pick the subject of the second company? Was it an opportunity, or was it something you really loved? Is there something you are really passionate about now? Could be anything… hobby, travel, certain pieces of tech, whatever. Think about it and try lots of things out. Maybe go back to things you enjoyed when you were a kid. In my experience, you need something, or a series of somethings, that really interest you and drive you. They might seem silly. They might seem dumb or done already. See if you can find something that you like to play with. Really play. Go from there.


Life is, or can be, about much more than work. You could be at mid-life crisis, it’s real and you’re exactly the right age.

Exercise, make sure your needs (quality time, intellectual engagement, emotional connections, nutritional, family quality) are being addressed. If you’re burnt out, take time for you. As codegeek wrote, consider volunteering. Making a meaningful difference, even small ways, to others is way more important than making bank once you’re adequately set.

If you can live a reasonable quality life without employment for the rest of your days, you’ve hit the lottery. Be totally psyched, and use your freedom. Wish I was in your shoes.


Being in the crypto industry I know quite a few people in the same financial situation or better.

You’ve exceeded the wealth of the normal man and for your lifetime. So almost all the financial incentives that workers go through no longer exist. The ironic term for this is “rich people problems”.

Waking up, having heavy decades long financial burdens is what 99% of the white collar working population goes through and you are not a part of that lifestyle.

Maybe the awareness that you are this point can help. You don’t work for financial reasons so you need to then find some deeper meaning to work life if you want to continue working.


There's this weird part of getting older, where the world doesn't feel so exciting and mysterious anymore. 35 for me is a great age to be lost. 44 is a great age as well. I am broke going to the foodbank right now and my world is so small and simple that it feels manageable. Went from 7 figures to this. I'm looking for work and some time soon I know i'll experience lift to my quality of life. I have recent chronic pain (physical and mental).

It all shifts when we share. Sometimes the hardest/most elusive part is acceptance but in that recognition, momentum builds.

I'm rooting for you!


To me it sounds that you've put your career first, and now that you've essentially beaten that game you're lost on what to do next. A lot of engineers switch to doing other things they like, an ex Microsoft dev made their own winery using their skills. A number of them just work on pet projects. Or a lot of people transition more into their community. - is there a high school or people to mentor? In education especially in rural areas it's hard to come by people with experience.

Travel, meet people, enjoy good food, do drift racing, life is what you want out of it.


John 10:10-11 (Jesus speaking) "...I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

John 6:27 (Jesus speaking) "Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man (Jesus) will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."

I'm sorry for your pain. God loves you. Seek Him with all your heart, whether you are in therapy or not, and he will open your eyes through his word and his Holy Spirit. His word is in the Bible.


Hello. I, like you, had an early, promising start in my teens. I've found it helpful exploring my thinking back then. Have you read about Internal Family Systems or EMDR?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Family_Systems_Model

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_desensitization_a...


Quit work for at least a while. You can afford it. Get involved in giving back or helping the less fortunate. Whether it's tutoring disadvantaged kids, or helping the elderly, or getting involved in some other charity that resonates with you, giving back will help you feel like you're doing something meaningful. You don't have to give all your money away, just start with contributing your time.

I'm not saying it's the case for everyone, but depression can be a signal that you need to make a change in your life.


Everyone is different. I can't say what will work for you, but don't forget to exercise, preferably outdoors. I started jogging because I was feeling down; a friend called and asked me if I wanted to train for a marathon with her. I didn't think that was feasible, but she convinced me and I started jogging. I trained with a running group that was made up of a large number of beginners like myself along with some good runners thrown in.

I started by running one mile, not too fast the first group meeting. I settled into running with other beginners like myself. As time passed, I would run about four days a week. One run every week slowly grew longer and longer and the other three runs stayed about the same sorter distance for my entire 8 or so months of training. It turned out it wasn't too difficult with an organization that set our courses and suggested runs.

I ended up losing weight and being in the best shape in my life at 50 years old, and I slept well every night. Importantly, it really changed my mood and I felt great. I had made new friends, had time to reflect on things while running, and had the satisfaction of reaching goals. At 55, I ran a qualifying time that allowed me to run in the Boston marathon.

I have had other friends that despised running; they took up swimming or biking. All of these can produce positive effects.


One's worth definitely does not depend on comparisons with others, or with what seems popular. There are permanent truths one can grasp and keep, for peace & stability amid the hard times that we all can have; even joy.

I wrote some things at my web site about purpose in life (in profile, no ads or sales), whether one is religious or not. (If you want details and can't find them, you can email me--it is in the site footer.) It revolves around learning (personal growth in ability to serve one's family and others), and service to others. There are important things to learn about the nature of life that also help.

One site that helps with the service part (ie volunteering) is justserve.org , which is free for individuals to participate and/or organizations who could use help, coordinated by location etc. And there are others like it. Unselfish service, helping others in good ways, brings a unique kind of enjoyment and real satisfaction.

I have learned for myself that God is real, cares, life has a purpose and extends before & after this mortality, questions have answers, each person including you is of infinite worth, and you never truly have to be alone. If we learn and make good choices, things can and will be very good, better than now. All real best wishes.


Turned 34 today and feel similar, minus a loving partner and millions in the bank.

The only way I keep going is to keep an intellectual and creative pursuit at all times. Currently I'm trying to build a deep understanding of public healthcare system since it's relevant to my life experience, and also learning a new instrument. That seems to get my mind on more important things than how I feel.

Otherwise I just try to accept that this is how I am. Some people are annoyingly bubbly, others grumpy. I'm melancholy.


Same age, situation and feeling here too. Unfortunately I have lost my drive for intellectual and creative pursuits, though. I've got a point where I've already figured out all the things I was curious about in my youth and no more have been added to the list. It just doesn't seem worth it with nobody to share life with.

I'm considering volunteering for something to make myself useful. One of things missing for a solitary man is being useful. I don't need anything. I live a very minimal life so all my problems are sorted and new ones don't crop up very often. I've accepted that love won't be happening but maybe I can at least feel appreciated.


> I have lost my drive for intellectual and creative pursuits, though. I've got a point where I've already figured out all the things I was curious about in my youth and no more have been added to the list. It just doesn't seem worth it with nobody to share life with.

I completely feel you on this. And for months at a time I have been lost without any. Inspiration is hard to find, but it's out there I think. Competence plays a big factor. It's no fun to do things you suck at, but you've grown bored of the stuff you ARE good at. Basically I have to commit to a slog (like an instrument) until momentum is built, or find something with immediate gratification (like reading about a salient topic in my life).

In either case, it's just a coping mechanism I think, not a solution.

Volunteering makes total sense. I think we're really good at doing things for ourselves but that stops delivering after a decade of succeeding at that. Many people cite helping others as central to the meaning in their lives.


I hit 34 recently too, if you ever want to talk about pursuits and interests outside of of $DAYJOB hit me up. I'm trying to rediscover the ancient art of pen pals in the age of social media.


I’d consider your history to be rather successful, and while I wouldn’t consider myself nearly as successful I do feel like I can relate on many levels.

What got me through the depression that ensues in what I think was also a “mid-life crisis” was the perspective offered by James Hollis in his book: “The Middle Passage: From misery to meaning in midlife”.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/47849.The_Middle_Passage

These sorts of crises come along at various points in our lives apparently, when something new starts brewing within that finds itself at odds with the outer structures in our lives. Unfortunately we don’t have very good societal structures/processes to assist people through these difficult times, but I feel that an understanding of the underlying psychological dynamics within oneself that give rise to this conflict can ease the suffering induced by these times of transition.

And it is genuine suffering. Make no mistake. Part of you needs to die and be renewed. It’s also not something to numb or shy away from, but to work through. Just as building your life “before” was a project, or series of projects, so is this task of moving through this difficult time, riddled with paradoxes and contradictions.


What I'm hearing you say, loud and clear, is that you no longer have a sense of a purpose in life. Drugs (legal or otherwise) will not fill that void for you. I do not believe that you can rekindle a sense of purpose just by thinking about it. I would advise you to try new things that sound interesting to you, and keep exploring until you find something you can pour your heart and soul into. Probably something different from, or at least not directly related to, tech.


I second this. You've out grown what used to motivate you. Done that, been there. Time to find what motivates you now. My guess is that with all of your outer success no longer doing it for you, the next threshold would be an inner journey and I believe you will know and be as driven when you find what is the way forward for you.

Look in new places, my friend, trust your inner voice, your inner guidance and intuition.


Well, you did it. You get go choose whatever you want to do now. This goes for all of you on this site too that need to go touch grass.

I'd like to think I'd take inspiration from Nick Stellino, a former Wall Street guy that made a ton of money and then decided to start over as a chef:

"he had built a successful career as a stockbroker. Nick’s Wall Street career was lucrative, but he realized something was missing. ... He decided to pursue a culinary career. ... With no formal experience, Nick was told he couldn’t work as a chef. Not to be denied a job in the industry, he initially took a job as a dishwasher. He went on to apprentice with some of the best chefs in America. While working in the restaurant business, he realized that he wanted to share his enthusiasm for cooking with others and that a television cooking show would be the best way to do that." [1]

I'm sure there's some embellishing here, but the point stands that you have unlimited options now to pursue what give you joy and purpose. Want to be a watchmaker working on antique Rolex timepieces? Starting an all organic bespoke wedding cake business? Running for City Comptroller in the next election?

[1] https://www.nickstellino.com/about-nick/


I think you’re missing the point here. Depression is a bitch and it skews the perception of self and the world in hard to comprehend if one does not experience it themselves. And that comes with various degrees of severity where towards one end people just want out, they feel something unbearable.

For a non sufferer of depression it makes a lot of sense to be happy that they reached a level where they can do whatever they want but with depression that desire ceases to exist.


I get messed up by the same thoughts, OP. It always lingers in the back of my mind, extra pressure that I don’t need. “You’re going to die one day, better not waste your time”, I tell myself. It may comfort you to know that I’ve been doing this to myself for my whole adult life! The only thing that makes me feel better is knowing the absolute truth on the matter: that every single person in existence is ageing at the same rate as me. One single day at a time. No one is immune to it, and we all edge towards death in lockstep. Somehow it’s comforting to know I’m not alone in mortality. I don’t want to die, or decline, but there is no way around it.

Does this all sound morbid? How old do you think I am? One year is a long time to have these thoughts linger, let alone a few decades. It’s a pathological issue, something that doesn’t have any positive effects on the way you function. My grandfather is coming up to his 80s, his wife died while they were in their 60s. His salvation has been in the form of work. He has not stopped working and has stayed active. I worked with him on construction sites, him 73 and I 21. His speed, grit, determination and directness of action made me pale in comparison. He is a rich man, and doesn’t need to labour on his own projects. He does it to beat lethargy and morbid thinking. He is slowing down, but still oversees his large commercial developments in our region.

Simplified: too much free time will give us opportunity to linger on dark thoughts. My pop is one of the calmest men I know. He doesn’t stress about things, and he is constantly active. I think it is related.

I wish you the best of luck, OP. These are difficult thoughts to grapple with. I hope you find solace.


I’m 39 so not far behind.

If you’re working only for health insurance the question you should ask yourself is what would you do if health insurance was free?

You have the money problem covered, this is huge. You could work in anything that doesn’t pay!

You could do charity, volunteering, teaching. you could get behind a sports team if that’s your thing, you could get competitive at some game. You could get involved in politics. You could open a bar or an art gallery. You could try and live abroad, grow vegetables or learn how to paint, sew, or make things.

You could swim in the sea every day and make octopus friends like the dude in the movie. You could learn how to make movies.

People I know built an ice rink in their backyards for their kids to become hockey players. My cousin went from professional waterpolo player to coaching to marketing and now he works in startups in argentina.

The midlife crisis is about finding other things to do that you find fulfilling besides making money. It’s not very hard but you need to do some work on yourself if you don’t know what you would find rewarding.

Also the awesome thing about being a software engineer is that you can apply your skills to anything cited above. Like Linus Torvalds who made an open source software for logging his scuba dives.

If your depression is what gets in the way, it’s a bit of a catch 22, cause it’s likely that doing something else that you find rewarding will get you out of depression.

Oh and don’t mock the guys who get a Porsche or a boat. Spending is a very effective way to go through the crisis. The “fuck it, I’d just do it” mindset is the right approach.


I'm coming to the realization that I spent all of my young years working and it kinda pisses me off. There isn't anything I can really do about it now and I've kinda come to grips with it. I had my midlife crisis in my late 30s and got into motorcycle riding. I realized how dangerous that really is so I got over that after a few years without any serious injury.

I suggest finding a hobby that is hard. I like shooting. It's dangerous enough to be exciting and difficult enough to not easily master (if ever), and it's deep enough to keep my mind occupied. I try to go every weekend, spend an hour at the range and feel better on the way home. It also gives me something to look forward to every week. We have a few outdoor ranges in the area so I get fresh air and more outside time too.

You can go deeper by learning how to break them completely down and cleaning them, making your own ammo, or even some minor gunsmithing. There's also a lot of categories. There is target shooting, speed shooting, shooting skeet/trap, long range rifle shooting, lots of stuff.

Shooting might not be for you, but try different things and see if anything piques your interest.


People who are not lost are probably delusional.

First thing to recommend if you haven't already is to become a student of psychology. YouTube is pretty helpful with this. Some insight into what your brain firmware is up to and why you feel one way or another can be useful. Probably drop the therapist since this was their job and they appear to have failed.

It may be that your self worth has been bound up in ascending a ramp of mastery. This works well until around your age which is the point where you've pretty much learned everything. The ramp flattened out and now your self-worth is abating as a result. If that's the case, adding new mastery challenges "just because" can help. Learn how to weld. Buy a bulldozer. Figure out Representation Theory. Doesn't matter what it is, only needs to be something your brain recognizes as difficult and it doesn't have to be work-related.

This also may simply pass with time. Once you're 10 years past the point of learning and understanding and doing everything, it's less of a big deal. In other words there isn't the continuous decline you perceive coming. More like a flat plateau.


Well you definitely do sound like you have depression, and I'm glad you're seeking treatment. Personally I'd be interested in trying one of the newer experimental treatments like mushrooms. Don't discount the pills, though, it can take a while to find something that evens you out.

> it's just a slow decline from here on out

The moment you're born is the moment you start dying. From the greatest king to the lowest begger, we all just fart around doing meaningless human things until we punch the final clock. So what's the point? Why go on? Why do anything?

You have to give yourself a reason to live. It doesn't have to be an accomplishment or a goal. It can just be that you like flowers. Seeing flowers, smelling flowers, touching them, maybe growing them, learning more about them. You can live just because occasionally you get to enjoy flowers. When you're not doing that, you can find another thing to enjoy. One thing, then another, then another. Each for just a moment at a time. Life's a stroll down a trail of moments. You pick one up, enjoy it, put it down, and continue the stroll. And the cool thing is, you decide where the trail leads, how fast you go, how many moments there are. You can go at a snail's pace or a flat-out run.

Personally, I enjoy the slow pace now. Just sitting and watching a bird outside my window is pretty fucking magical. If I want to see more birds? Bird feeder! Or I can move somewhere with more birds. Or go take a nature walk. It's not immediate, and I can't force the birds to appear. But when it happens... Until the next time the birds come out, I do the next thing that brings me joy. Just stringing moments together. No point. No final destination. Just taking a stroll, picking up happy moments along the way.


You have something younger people can only dream of - experience. It sounds like you've got some incredible stories to tell and plenty of advice to dish out.

My advice would be to simply switch your focus from you to others. What can you do with all that experience to help others? I think people often misinterpret this kind of advice to mean the only way forward is to drop everything and go volunteer in a soup kitchen or start doing charity work. While there is nothing wrong with those things of course - it's important to pick something you genuinely care about. Otherwise it's your ego making the decision for you. If you don't genuinely love and care about how you help others, it won't work out.

Start by figuring out what your message is then decide on a medium to express it. Many people start by trying to write - maybe it's the start of a book, or a blog post or even just a private journal. I recommend writing as it's extremely easy to get started and the quickest route to realising what you don't know about what you don't know. So then - temporarily at least - the game turns into a quest for knowledge. Once you've plugged all the gaps, maybe you'll continue to write to get your message across. Or maybe you'll choose to express it through music or painting or a video game or a YouTube channel or blogging or giving a talk or starting a new business, or something else altogether? Pick whatever medium you love working with the most.

If you can avoid the trap of letting your ego take over and stay disciplined enough to do the hard work necessary to get your message out there for the purpose of helping others, it should make you feel better over time. If you slip into doing it for the success or the money or to show off around your friends, then you'll probably continue to feel the way you do now.


I have some ketamine on order hoping it is as effective as they say. I’m also at an all time low, about to hit 40. This will be my second major round of depression in my 30’s. I have bipolar type 2, but even managed that condition is very dicey. I found that resentment was a major force behind the first round. Disappointment dominates this wave. I have a psychiatrist, who prescribed me lithium which was very helpful indeed, until I quit it. Therapy, just having someone check in is something valuable, but I quit that too. I’ll be clear I’m not offering advice. For me, I escaped the first round by taking a series of high dose psilocybin trips. Some were very pleasant, others were like dying and going to hell, literally. I did some very stupid and risky things while under the influence. But for me personally, it absolutely saved my life. It really works. But you’ve got to control the environment carefully and have a babysitter. That lasted nearly 2 years, now I’m again in trouble. Best I not say more. But that’s one solution I found


You are already successful and forgot how it is to be poor or truly unhappy. You are most likely childless as well and do not have anybody to truly share your life.

  Try another therapist.
  Consider adopting child or do foster care
  Travel to poorer places (maybe Ukraine)
  Do something non-profit in your area
  Try to do something different (woodworking, cooking, cocktails bar)


I’m 38 and feeling your struggle minus the uber achievement. I do alright, but I still have a mortgage.

I will back up your ketamine hunch, but more generically as psychedelics. Consider a guided approach like Psychedelic Passage, for example. They won’t source for you, but I’m sure you can figure it out. I’m not sure if they’d be the correct folks to guide a ketamine trip but maybe!

It took a lot to convince my wife that I hadn’t lost my mind or desire to support my family. But she eventually understood that it was something I had to do for the good of everyone around me, especially me. Psychedelics aren’t a cure-all, but it’s a great medicine to retool old habits and deeply held beliefs. Your preparation and intention setting is the cornerstone of its efficacy.

One book hit home with me after my first trip: Die Wise by Stephen Jenkinson. I highly recommend it even though I found the audiobook unlistenable before. It became a significant influence on my life afterward.

The heart of psychedelic power against depression is this: it lets emotion express itself. In therapy, if you haven’t cried with your therapist, then it’s a fucking waste of time. Antidepressants hollow out my emotions and limit their range - helping me to be a more effective automaton. Psychedelics release you from the consequences of crying or feeling idiotic joy. It’s a reacquaintance with a youthful mindset.

One last thought: I went into psychedelics hoping that I’d feel the train cars of my life click into place on the tracks. But what I’ve discovered is that there are no tracks, and that’s the way it’s supposed to be. It took a while to appreciate that. One saying goes: you get what you need, not what you want.

I sincerely hope that you find relief! Bring your whole self to the table, and I believe you’ll find that you’re enough.


I didn't know about Psychedelic Passage, or even the existence of services like it. Thank you for sharing. I find communicating transparently about psychedelic experiences without sensationalism is extremely valuable.


I'm currently reading the book From Strength to Strength by Arthur C Brooks and it is really hitting home. I identify with everything you say, perhaps not as strongly, but I've chased success and achievement my whole life. And now, in my early forties, I'm over it. Work dangles the carrot, and I don't care. I want to spend time with my family, focus on my hobbies and physical health, that I time and again deprioritize in favor of working more. I mean, what if I wake up with a cancer diagnosis, or die in a car accident? I will look back at my life and say, what was the point of making all that money when I never lived? To that end I'm about to take a sabbatical (possibly early retirement), but there's an internal head game that the book is helping me with. It's not enough to step off the treadmill without some awareness of why I was on it in the first place, the short version of which is: my ego likes being admired as a Very Successful Person™.


There are probably a lot of parameters to a solution that will work for you. Having had similar periods in my life, while I'm waiting for a resolution I've always found small physical projects that I see through to completion to be a great way to wait. When you complete something, it provides something positive to you, neurologically and thereby emotionally.

It may seem silly, but at least for me, tilling a new garden, building a small physical thing, doing some task that's physically taxing and I can see through has been great while waiting for the end of my larger difficulty. It won't solve all your problems, as implied above, but it could be a good stop gap while you're looking for solutions. Your therapist (or a new one if this one doesn't work out) could provide long-term solutions I'd hope.

You're not alone, friend. You will get there -- I've done it a number of times (though in my case, without the money part figured out; well done in that regard!).


Most of your intuitions are probably correct. You probably are past your zenith, and it probably is a slow decline from here. Your life probably doesn't have much real meaning. In fact, it's likely that none of us here really do.

So get over it. You still won the lottery in this universe in that you ever existed in the first place. Make the best of what remains.


This question has been posed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30230620 (slightly different circumstances however there are parallels).

Either way, my favourite answer was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30231627

"It helps to bear in mind that about 99.9999% of the worlds population have no awareness of your existence."

That helped me.

I then created a domain based on that comment[1] and then decided to create an alter ego[2] who will be my internet persona for the various projects I've been doing for the last couple of years.

I guess that gave me a bit of a purpose.

[1]=https://99.99999.fyi/ [2]=https://gregorius.rippenstein.art/


My recommendation is to go out and do something physical. Doesn’t matter what it is, but I chose running. If you’re comfortable in your own head for a time, running works wonders. One of my friends did the same, but took up cycling. Either way, being able to go out and have 30+ minutes to yourself can really help work through things. It’s not a replacement for anything you’re currently doing, but it helped me. The key for me was consistency. I run a bit every day, no days off. The combination of physical activity with the quiet is mentally quite helpful for me. YMMV, but we’re about the same age. Even just the physical benefit is worthwhile.

I started out with small goals (run once a day for a week) and progressed from there, for two weeks, for a month, well, I made it this far, might as well keep going… let’s run in a 10K… a marathon?!?! The point for me wasn’t really to run in a race, but to have a goal — something to work towards.

I hope you find something that helps.


> thinking about trying Ketamine

Do it. I just did psilocybin for the first time last autumn. It was life changing. Im 37. I didn't learn anything new, but I felt really different and that was the real truth. That I really could just feel different and still be me. I guess it was a perspective on my life that I knew but hadn't felt.


I'm surprised by the number of people suggesting having children.

Don't do it.

Having children won't bring stability. Children won't provide your life a point or purpose, children will cause your life to have more chores and stress.

And think of the poor child when it asks you why did you have me: "because I was feeling lost and wanted a purpose".


You never once mentioned what you enjoy to do for fun. What do you like to do for fun? Do that! Don't do it for the money tho. All you have really talked about is work. Is that all you enjoy? Then why don't you go do a very hard startup or start one? If not, engage in other activities. Best of luck.


Justin Kan talks a lot about this same situation in his own life. Check out his YouTube [0] if you haven't already. I bet if you reached out he would talk to you as well...

[0] One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rIL5vHoF34


Finding something new to strive for is not a bad idea, but it should be orthogonal to your past interests. Something you have to come in at a relative beginner level. Of course you're never going to be as good at it as people who've been doing it for 20 years plus, but that's OK. Think more in terms of self-development rather than winning a competition with others. I've had some limited success in regaining a positive outlook by diving into programming and networking at a similar age over the past few years, coming from a background of academic benchtop lab researcher who never wrote a line of code (maybe an Excel macro) before.

For a chuckle about the inevitable decline as we age, see this quote from Trainspotting:

https://www.quotes.net/mquote/1200371


Stay in therapy and go ahead and try Ketamine. Keep in mind that not everyone "qualifies" for the treatment based on initial psychiatric consults. I've heard very good things about it working where other medications, etc. have failed.

Your story resonates with me and I'm considering Ketamine as well.

Two things that have helped me immensely in the past was exercise and taking up a new hobby. For years, I always wanted to try woodworking and a couple years ago I started. I've found it helps in a couple ways: it distracts me from whatever is going on in my life and gives my brain a rest. Second, it diversified my time while learning something new. There's something special that happens when you're learning and building something with your hands at the same time.

Another thought is to look enlisting the help of a life coach.

No matter what path you choose, good luck brother.


If you don't need to work for money and are able-bodied, go build something with your hands. Buy a remote plot of land and build a cabin. Buy an inner-city plot and build an affordable house that you could rent out at below-market rates. Do Habitat for Humanity. The list is endless.

That's what I would do in your boat.


Welcome to the club, mate. By 45 I told my friends proudly "majority of my goals I have already reached", and then silently asked myself "crap... what do I do now?". However life isn't boring place, no matter the age. We are meant to be happy, regardless what modern pharmacist would like you to believe. Happiness is always inside. Right people shed some light on the path to it. Be it a therapist, a neighbor you never talked to, or a stranger passing by, walking out the dog. 40+ is amazing time, when you clearly know who you are, who you are not, and what's right. It's also a perfect time to just throw those beliefs and prejudices, and try finding yourself again. There are no dead ends in life, "even if you got eaten there are two ways out". Keep looking! Good luck mate.


I had my first experience realizing mid-life -- and its ghosts -- when I was just about your age. I bought a book about it and it helped me understand where most of that anxiety were coming from. I don't see a therapist, dont take any meds or feel that I'm depressed. I have bad days every other week, but I think that's normal and somewhat "desired" to keep me focused on my goals. One thing that helped me fight the bitterness of mid-life crisis was physical activities, adrenaline. I have intensified my bike rides a lot. I used a popular bike training app to quantify my performance and then push it harder. It's been working good for me in general. I have lost weight, improved my sleep and eating habits. My bike has become my best companion throughout this weird phase of my life.


First off, sorry to hear this! It sounds like you're really having a tough time.

Second, I think that this search for meaning is not unique to you, nor to modern people. We've been doing this for millennia. Religion, philosophy, stoicism, psychology, they all try to answer the question: how do I live a good life?

I don't know you, but I'll give you the answer that I'd give a friend who came to me with this question.

* Find a therapist who works for you. This may involve trying many different ones. If you try 10 and none work, maybe therapy isn't for you, but having someone who is paid to listen to you can be very helpful. Since you know you have depression, find someone to help you with that (which may involve trialing different medications). This is foundational and none of my other advice will be helpful if you don't do this. This post from a leading VC may prove helpful: https://feld.com/archives/2015/04/bringing-depression-shadow...

* Find something bigger than yourself and your achievements to work for. Sibling comments suggest volunteering, I'd be more specific. What are you interested in? Coding?: volunteer at a school or bootcamp and teach folks to code. History?: volunteer at a museum. The outdoors? volunteer at a park. Commit to the volunteering for at least 6 months and treat it like a job because it will be providing what a job might have done in the past: a firm sense of purpose.

* Find some non-work groups to hang out in. This could be sports clubs, civic groups (Odd Fellows, Elks, Rotary Club, etc), book clubs, etc etc. This regular, non work focused socializing will help give your life some richness. I just saw this video and one thing that stood out to me was how relationships with others can give our lives meaning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6WZuLKOa6k


From my experience the goal posts constantly move, the insatiable desire for more never ends. Self acceptance of where you are in your stage of life will be key to letting go and relinquishing the suffering that goes hand in hand with our ego identity and attachments to success.

What you are experiencing is a normal stage of life that we all inevitably must face.

This is a beautiful stage of life, even if society tells you otherwise. You begin to reconcile aspects of your being and start seeing things for what they really are.

My existential pangs are eased by spiritual books and teachers. I recommend you find some foundation of spirituality to help through these times. My favourite teacher is the late Ram Dass (Richard Alpert) who has his works available on the Be Here Now Network podcasts, Alan Watts also.

Take care


How about fitness? Sex life? How's your diet? Do you have any vices? Do you have close relationships with friends or family? Do you do anything creative?

You're doing great on money, but you spent a whole lot of time talking about that. There's lots of other things to think about


I see you.

There is a lot of advice being giving here. What works for one person may work for another, and frankly, it may not.

You already have the wisdom required to live a fulfilling life within. Truly believing this and discovering this wisdom is often not easy, as it appears you have already discovered.

All I can say is that the process of deeply getting to know myself has been a lot of work and absolutely worth it for me. It's a journey that I feel I will be on for the rest of my life. And it's f*cking wonderful.

I'm a developer as well, and a relatively new coach, though I'm not currently practicing due to other prior commitments. Therapy is wonderful. So is coaching. Both can go hand in hand.

Feel free to reach out to me if you'd like to have a deeper conversation (same username on Twitter).


What did the beginning of the journey to know yourself look like? What did you do or think about to kickstart that?


For me it was dedicated time in nature getting back into my body ... trail running in particular. I'm prone to intellectualize everything, including my emotions. The mind is a wonderful thing and I've found that to depend on it for everything is pretty limiting.

This all started when I had more time to myself again after my kiddo began school 5-6 years ago (I'm 40, now). I found yoga early in this period and began to learn how to feel into my body more than ever. To feel my emotions rather than think about them, and let them pass. Also, I began to listen to and trust my intuition even for the seemingly smallest of decisions.

It seems that getting to know oneself deeply is a daily practice. At least it is for me.

edit: One more thing: journaling. By hand. 3 pages (30-45 minutes non-stop). First thing in the morning, every morning as described in "The Artist's Way." This helped get the sh*t out on paper before bringing it into the world. Whatever happened to be on my mind ... even the mindless drivel.


thank you


If you've hit the zenith of your professional career, why not focus on hobbies and building up a community of people around you? Friends, friends-of-friends, etc.

If you need inspiration, here's an introduction to my weird hobby and community: https://soatok.blog/2020/04/23/never-underestimate-the-furry...

Also, pick up a copy of The Happiness Hypothesis sometime. https://smile.amazon.com/Happiness-Hypothesis-Finding-Modern...


Sail across an ocean.

I'm nowhere near in your position, but the bucket list is pretty much done except for skippering a yacht on a major offshore passage. I've been sailing on and off since my teens and now have a yacht and am pushing into longer trips. There's a lot to learn. You need to push outside your comfort zone on a regular basis. But it's visceral, real, incredibly connected to physics and nature, and uniquely satisfying. When sailing you're completely disconnected from society, money, your upbringing, everything - and are reliant on your own preparation to literally keep yourself alive.

I'm not really making myself clear but ... Sailing has been great for my mental health. Perhaps it can help yours.


On the happiness front, consider learning about Positive Psychology (a rigorous research subfield within psychology focusing on happiness and well being). If you read books, consider reading ones by Ph.D. researchers in the field, rather than journalists (who unfortunately often overstep conclusions of research findings).

For example: The How of Happiness by Sonja Lyubomirsky https://www.amazon.com/How-Happiness-Approach-Getting-Life/d...

I think trying LSD or Magic Mushrooms once (after proper research and understanding of safety precautions) may be an excellent move.


At least you have the money part figured out, LOL. I'm a couple years short of 50 and feeling an increasing dread that I won't be in a position to do anything interesting in the future, and that I haven't tried hard enough to have a lucrative career so I don't have enough banked to retire yet.

Can't tell you what you should do. I'm going to grind leetcode (the blind 75!) and brush up on systems design diagrams and see if I can convince one of the high-paying tech companies that I still have the mojo. I still enjoy slinging code, but I want to be able to "retire" before 60 and do it on my own terms, along with other hobbies that are mildly expensive.


Be careful with the drug stuff though. It's hard to tell from a short post, but if your problems aren't caused by some chemical imbalance - which happens in some cases, but in many more cases it's not the problem - then trying to fix it with drugs would just make you to have two problems instead of one. It sound more of "meaning of life" stuff than "some chemicals are not balanced in my body" stuff. Things like that are rarely fixed with finding the right pill. There are a lot of venues for fixing "meaning of life" problems, it's hard to say which one would work for you, but maybe try out some you didn't try yet.


"I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out. I’ve been dreading this day because it’s a sad reminder of that."

Yes, it's very likely that you have hit your local maxima. You've been preparing for this day and the day came. It maybe worth noting to oneself that it did not turn out the way you predicted and perhaps identify, if possible, causes that your prediction was so off. Considering that you subconsciously believed that your life will be short, perhaps there were things you did not like in your life that you have compromised upon or negative feelings suppressed that contribute to feeling unhappy?


Turn inward.

Your physical survival is taken care of, now there is only conscious evolution.

Your mind (thoughts/feelings/emotions) is going to do what it has always done - run rampant. Now with the emptiness you're feeling, you'll want to pay even attention to them. Don't.

You're looking for a feeling of joy just for being alive. It's not found in the physical body or your mind. It's much deeper. The journey starts with stillness.

I suggest the following:

- some type of meditation (no apps), anything involving stillness

- being with the earth (gardening, walking)

- skip all media (at least not consuming it in the desire to find answers)

Where you are now is harder than the past 44 years.

You have to consciously (not compulsively like up till now) move forward.


You're in a place I'd like to get to: not being dependent on external sources for income. You're in a place most would want to get to I suppose (I'm ever so slightly older than you). How about reaping the reward instead of spending more time inside the loop? I can only speak for myself, but when I get to your position, I'll be taking a small backpack with my laptop and a spare T Shirt, and me and the Mrs will go travel the world without any plan beyond the first destination. What we'll need beyond that we can buy on the way. There is a whole planet out there waiting for you to see it, and you CAN do it.


It seems like you're in a good place financially and career wise, maybe focus on your physical health and make improvements there.

If you are covered financially, you can do a long trip somewhere to get a change of scenery and have some self-reflection


More a question than a comment: if you think it's all only decline now and were really done with life, why are you still here? If you were truly done all the way through, I'm sure you would have long done away with life without even questioning it. But you haven't and are still here. Great! I think this fact means something: there is still something holding you here, no matter how seemingly small and trivial. And somehow I get the feeling the secret is actually somewhere in there, whatever it may be. And so maybe it's not really that small and trivial.

p.s. I've been running in circles like this myself for decades..


Hello fello 1978 (or 1977).

I don't know much about you, so it's not appropriate to tell you what to do.

Speaking from my own experience, I've prioritized work over just about everything else.

And I regret it.

I'm lost now because I haven't had enough 'life inputs' along the way to help me understand how I should live life. How I should spend time.

But in the past two years, I've come to term that I don't want to work forever.

So I started imagining my life after 45... starting with where I want to live. And it's not the U.S.A. Then I'm going to figure it out from there.

I've learned that I cannot "Agile" "Incrementally improve" my out of things.

I need a bigger external shock.


Sounds like you've done a lot with your life already so now you're facing an issue about what's your purpose now. I think that's what you really need to figure out. I suggest traveling to open your eyes. Hopefully you'll find what you really want to achieve then.

Two quotes always comes up when I think about my purpose:

1. We're here to make a dent in the universe - This doesn't have to be about work, making more money, or building the latest gadget.

2. Whoever saves one life, saves the world entire - You don't have to save everyone, just one life, just make one difference to make all the difference.

Good luck!


Have you considered going back to school to pursue something more aligned with your interests/passion, or even a general program that lets you figure things out?

There are many midcareer programs operated by business schools, as well as specialized terminal degrees in technical and creative fields. I took such a route at age 40 ... going back to school full-time at that age was a shock to many people I knew, but it was the right thing for me. It really opened up a range of new possibilities, and introduced me to people from all over the world and from industries I would otherwise have never encountered.


Outside of your professional life, what have you accomplished? Are you artistic in any way? Are you still a good student? Do you think you could be a good teacher? You can build companies, but can you build furniture?


How do you define success? The answer to that is rooted in your present unhappiness, but you have the power to redefine success.

From an outsider's perspective, your life is the one that I want to live, a life I would call successful! I would kill to be in a position to retire around the age of 40. I hate working! Starting a homestead and living off the land while I kick back and enjoy life, rather than generating profits for some nameless elite in a skyscraper.

You can make any plans you want going forward. What do you value? What is your calling? What is your crusade? The answer lies within.


I have been a 'serial entrepreneur' for my entire career. The experience has changed many times, with being a principle in a new venture, to being a hire at a more mature startup, to being a consultant at my own company. Back and forth many times.

Its a journey, not a destination. I suggest that the burn-out feeling, the impostor feeling, the whats-it-all-for depression, are symptoms it's time to change. None are 'true' in that they are temporary.

Heck, teach at a junior college for a semester or two, be with young people full of idealism. It's a tonic.

I hope you find a path forward.


You basically need to re-evaluate what gives you "purpose". For me it would be leaving tech and doing something else for a time; anything from janitorial work to welding to carpentry or ideally something outdoors (nursery?). One thing I thoroughly enjoy doing is volunteer work. I helped build houses for Habitat for Humanity and it was extremely fulfilling. I think if you have the opportunity to work part-time and retain your health insurance, find something you'd be interested in volunteering for that would give you that sense of purpose again.


Your quests are all about money and success. Once you attain them you no longer have a rock to push up hill.

You need something transcendent, a bigger goal that keep you engaged in live, something big enough that inspire you, that you might never complete.

It could be art or technology or religion but I think it need to be something.

I am a bit in the same doldrum. It look like you are a builder and might need something to build, to be productive to be happy.

Also:

-friends -wife -family -kids -job/career -hobby/fun activities

Those are the normal component of life for 90% of people. Look to see if something simple is missing in the list, work on that.


You need find meaning in _life_, not just work. Why are you here? You know you aren't the first person to hit this problem.

Religion offers a solution for this problem, when the purpose and value of your life is more valuable than your day to day activities, your money or anything you experience now.

But most people will suggest therapy so you can learn to be happy with what you have already become unsatisfied with, worldly success.

Go find unhappy people and help them. Poor, destitute, maybe a sad neighbor, and do something for them. Then maybe you will find a new thing in life worth caring about.


It seems like you have experienced a lot and that the field you are passionate about has nothing left to offer. Just because you’ve reached the top and there’s nowhere left to go, doesn’t mean that there aren’t thousands of interesting opportunities elsewhere. I would love to say that traveling and doing all these new things would be helpful, but at the same time, chasing a checklist will just leave you unsatisfied. Maybe move somewhere else? Meet different people? Live slow and relax?

Other people can give you their advice, but you know yourself best.


Going to keep this short since there's so many responses:

That feeling for me came about super prominently when I was trying to ignore other parts of my life that I didn't want to deal with and using work to cope. Not having something to strive for in your work life makes it harder to ignore the other stuff.

So my advice is to really dig in and listen to the parts of yourself you're most scared to unbox. I don't want to get more specific than that, if that's what your problem is, you'll likely have some idea of what I'm referring to. <3


"We are given 70 years, and a bit more if we are strong" - some greek philosopher, if memory serves me right. The first half of those 70 years is ascending, and the second half is descending. The root of your anxiety is the fear that you'll disappear into non-existence at the end. Many say that mushrooms dissolve this fear, even in absence of proofs, but I wouldn't rush to mushrooms until your mindset is fixed. Knowledge backed by direct experience would be better, but you're a some 30 years too late for that.


Adopt the religion of biological age. ie, re-conceptualize your age as something that is correlated to your health, mortality and existential risk. Further its a number you have control to change. Exercising, eating healthier and learning more deeply about your body will give many options to feel better. The continued onslaught of scientific longevity advances will feel optimistic to your beliefs. Example: https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.co/


I've found a lot of joy in dance. It takes a couple months of lessons to get passably good at it, but the combination of music, human connection, and physical activity is a good combination. I can recommend Contra Dance as a good introduction and it's where I started. Accepting communities willing to invest in new dancers (e.g. actually dancing with newcomers as part of the culture, rather than letting them stand on the sidelines, free lessons before the dance starts, etc.), often live music, good snacks (pre-covid).


Start going to church. Believe in something bigger than yourself. Honestly, nothing gained on this earth will satisfy you. Everyone always hates hearing this, but it's the truth in my opinion.


It sounds to me like you are defining yourself by your career. Maybe you need a new definition of what your life is? Find a way to spend time outside of work that brings meaning to your life. Maybe buy private health insurance and spend a year just exploring what there is in this world outside of the software industry.

Also, it is OK to be lost - we all have general directions we are headed, but life will throw changes at you and we need to roll with the punches. Becoming comfortable with your life plan being imperfect is a wise move.


Why not become an investor and focus on philanthropy or giving back, assuming you have passive income. You won the money game, no longer have creditors breathing down your neck.

Go travel with the wife, go do a hobby with your hands, create a brick and mortar business or nonprofit that you are passionate about and is not fueled by profit.

Life isn’t just about working, do you still have a deep connection with your significant other? If not, how do you repair that rift that you created by pouring all your blood, sweat and tears into your work life?


I skimmed through all the comments (sorry if I missed it) but I couldn’t see any mention of the grief that comes with knowledge of the anthropocene. The world we have created, the changes we have made, are irrevocable. The hopes of our generation are lost because we are damned to know that the world is lost to us already. The sheer weight of grief at the loss of a world is something that nobody has been prepared to help you and I mourn. This is it. This is where it ends. There is no way through.


You need to find your next challenge. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be what you’ve been doing. Maybe it’s time to look around at the world and find something new that’s interesting.


So sorry to say this dude, you are having a midlife crisis.

I am guessing you have achieved everything you want in life and are now, as you said it: lost.

So yeah, when god closes a door, he opens a window. Look at this as an opportunity to figure out what you want out of the rest of your life.

Depression is a means for your brain to protect itself and find the root cause of your problems. The ruminative thoughts can let you analyse issues at depth if you let it.

Be strong and remember life is an amazing thing, there is always the possibility to change :)


Try joining a charity or volunteering. If you're good with kids, try CASA. As others have said exercise really helps. My friend made a huge turnaround in his mental health when he stopped tying his self-worth to money and gaming. He took up speed dating, Jiu jitsu, and weight training. He seems happier now. Try going on a hike or staying in a cabin somewhere. Some quiet and greenery can do wonders for mental health. Best of luck, and I hope you're feeling better soon.


You are simply an out of work actor. Look for your next role.

Ping me at pryelluw@gmail.con if you’d like to chat more. I’ve assisted others in the same situation after sorting it out for myself.


Get your Testosterone checked in the early morning two times (about a week apart). If you are under 300 both times, go see a Urologist for treatment. It could be your hormones.


Not only that but general health. Diet. Exercise. Sleep.

But I agree he should get his testosterone checked.


All mortgages, car notes, and credit cards are paid off and our investments are enough

If a child tells you that is their ambition, they said it because they know you will like it.

I’m really only working for the health insurance.

If a child tells you that is their ambition...

But I've never been more unhappy and lost.

You've checked all the boxes on some conventional checklist.

Now you have the terrifying option of doing what you want.

And now you have adult money to buy the metaphoric muscle car.

Go off script and buy one.

At forty-four you've just come up for air.

Give yourself permission to start breathing again.

Good luck.


I'd probably have done similar if I hadn't discovered legit spiritual practices when I was younger. Focussing on materialism, wealth, status, etc. just doesn't bring happiness.

I think Buddhism nailed the causes of unhappiness and provides a way out without needing to believe in fairies. I'd honestly be lost without it.

Maybe you're one of those people who's more aware of what the Buddha called the 3 characteristics like I am. Worth googling it at least.


I hit a similar point (without the 8 figure sale of my startup) in my early 30’s. My mentor advised me to go get a copy of “Illusions” and hike up a local mountain to read it. It didn’t get me all the way to where I am today some 20 years later but it certainly changed my perspective on things in a foundational way.

Sounds like you need a challenge. Kinda like Steve Jobs walking back into Apple for $1/yr salary. Gun to the head + Guns to the deck, speaking metaphorically.


As for health insurance, you should look into Direct Primary Care. Sort of like concierge medicine for all where you can pay a family fee and then add a catastrophe plan on top. Would likely allow you to lower your health expenses significantly, see a primary care physician more often or for longer visits and stay on top of your health. Could point you in a direction for depression treatments? Might free you from having to keep a job for insurance.


What are you trying to prove? And to who?

My guess (armchair psychology and know nothing about you) is that someone made your inner child feel sad and "not good enough". If you can find that kid in you and feel/sooth the pain it will free you from trying so hard to reach an elusive goal. Then you can figure out what you actually want and persue that.

No, I'm not projecting I've seen this before. My own inner pain and outward manifestation was different ;-)


What's your next goal?

It seems like you've accomplished all your goals and are wondering what to do next. Maybe it's not tech-related. Maybe it's time for something completely different where you can experience the struggles again of being a beginner.

I'm currently reading "High Output Management" by Andrew Grove. This quote might apply:

> if we are to create and maintain a high degree of motivation, we must keep some needs unsatisfied at all times


Pretty much everything you have posted as an accomplishment is work related. Do you have kids? If so can you focus on spending time with them? Hobbies that are not work related? Sounds like you need to refocus your life on something new. Go volunteer in Europe to help the Ukrainians, or somewhere in the 3rd world. Or anything else that will give you a different perspective on life. You won the finance game, now go see the world.


Like others mentioned, I see a resume. I think taking a step back and consider alternative measures of contentment. The set of all things that make people "happy" might include things that you've previously ignored or disregarded because it had nothing to do with your professional advancement. Give it a try. Bad example: it might be as simple as taking ballroom dancing lessons or picking up golf, who knows.


Sports are generally good for resetting brain, settings some goals and keeping oneself in a good shape. Or think about stuff that interested you when you were younger and get a hobby or two going.

I'd avoid taking medication unless it's really required - that can create problems someplace else.

Re zenith and decline - body certainly start showing signs of decline past once past 40. You can fight it to a degree but you can't stop it or fix it.


You sound burned out. Why don't you take a year off, travel, meet people and friends think about your life? You don't really need the money anyway.


Went through something similar. Here are a few things that helped; 1. Drink plenty of water when you wake up. 2. I had muscle stress issues and I got a PT and chiro to help with that. Surprisingly once the muscle issues got better, so did my mental state. 3. Walking around 1-2 miles a day. It clears up your mind and if you don’t have a working exercise routine this can be a great way to get you to go out.


You've done it all in terms of family/work/money. The next achievement to unlock may be creating a work of art. Take a look at my site that documents what a real work of art is and let me know if it speaks to you in any way - http://www.vikrubenfeld.com/category/art-talk/


I don't know how much time you need to work, but it might be good to try donating some time to a cause that matters to you, no matter how small.


Spend 4 days doing Unleash the Power Within. I was skeptical, but put my full effort into it and held back my cynicism. Ignore the annoying marketing/hype machine around it -- the actual content and the experience (when approached wholeheartedly) are awesome. Change your state, change your life.

https://www.upwvirtual.com/


Covid lockdown was a terrible time for me as well.

In my country, the lockdown was total, for months the only reason I left the home was to buy groceries.

What saved my mental health was, surprisingly, simracing.

Not so much the activity of simracing, but more than that, for the people I met along the way, some of whom I consider now my best friends.

The feeling of belonging to something is wonderful, and I can argue is much better than any pills you can get.


To me it sounds like you've successfully dedicated your life to making money, but money is not a pursuit that brings any happiness. It seems like you need to find a purpose in life that isn't making money, having a wife, raising kids, etc. Some true self identity. Try new things until you find something new you want to master and pursue it. Make some time for it.


Do you play golf? This question sounds flippant but in all seriousness I took it back up after a long hiatus a couple years back (I'm the same age as you) and it has been completely cathartic and stress relieving. I find it to be like a walking meditation. I often play as a single and meet great people, have great conversations and generally have a great time.


There’s something to be said for a hobby that gets you outside, alone, with occasional moments to intently focus on the activity.


This may be odd advice, but I found it helpful to watch animals. I go out in nature and I see a bird spend all its energy to survive.


> I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out.

I'm in my early 40s, and when I start to feel that way, I remind myself that Richard Hipp, lead developer of SQLite, didn't start to do what is indisputably his best work until he started developing SQLite 3 in his 40s. So your best work might still be ahead of you.


Maybe you have hit your zenith, but there is no shame in that. It doesn't preclude you from accomplishing more tomorrow.

Medical intervention can be helpful short-term, but long-term you want to look at what satisfies you. Fast forward yourself to 55, and think to your self "Wow, I'm really impressed with myself that I did $x." And then get to doing $x.


I recommend you go through an exercise I learned a few years back in college[3]. Get into a quiet, comfortable, but alert state (meditation or a cup of coffee often works) . Somewhere you can be undisturbed for 30-60 minutes. Get yourself a few sheets of paper and a pen you like. It's advised you actually hand write this. Maybe turn on some quiet contemplative music -- movie scores often work[1].

Set a timer for 30-60 minutes and begin to write down every conceivable thing you might want to do, anything that seems cool, honorable, worthwhile, interesting, amazing, serene, invigorating, beautiful, or otherwise just iconic/archetypal of your interpretation of what a great life might include/entail. The only rules are you must not limit yourself by thinking it cannot be accomplished, is out of reach, or other "pragmatic" style self limitations, and you must not list things you think you ought/should do where those things are coming from a place that doesn't seem truly genuine to who you are -- they are externally informed. Try to shoot for 100 things.

Ok, got your list?

Now you're going to refactor it into categories. Categorize it into any pattern set you observe. I wont mention any here as it will bias your own groupings. But I really do believe patterns _will_ emerge if you look at it long enough. Try to distill themes of values and what is important to you, excites you, has meaning/purpose to you.

After many days you may want to start to think and begin to pursue these things either concretely (a specific item on your list) or thematically (find ways to incorporate meaning to what you're already doing). Books about habits[2], goals can help with bringing them into fruition. This exercise can be used to help you map out things that matter, reflect on things you have done that you previously said would matter (gratitude), and later on redone to help evolve as you grow.

If I find that you're stalling/procrastinating in overwhelm or negativity I often apply my "Next pizza" rule (I love pizza). I think about what might represent the next pizza in my life (sometimes literally, usually figuratively) and focus on getting there. Focus on doing the best monday through friday on the things that matter I can so I can get to that next pizza (reward).

[1]: Perhaps the fountain, interstellar, or pan's labyrinth.

[2]: such as atomic habits or tiny habits

[3]: this exercise is similar to, but smaller than, the future authoring program https://www.selfauthoring.com/future-authoring


what kept you going as the founding CTO? Was there anything other than money to motivate to you wake up and go to work?

You did well on that job obviously and the start-up had a good exit, but what was your goal beyond that?

I am not a climber, but I can imagine to a climber it must be horrible when he/she has accomplished all the climbing and there is nothing left to climb.

I look up to the people who are going strong well into their 70's and even 80's, even after they have achieved a great deal. It can't be money because they've got a load of it that they can't even spend it. I don't know what it is though but I can imagine that whatever it is that keeps them going, it's different from person to person.

Find what that is for you. It's ok to say that you don't have it, because seeking and finding it is work in and of itself. Find it and then connect with it, and you'll see there is much more to wake up to and so much more to work hard for.


Not a therapist, but would probably switch my life with yours in a second. I am the same age as you, in tech in a third world country and working two jobs and eighty hours a week to afford a good future for my kids. I will have to probably keep doing so into my fifties to give them a good education. Bottom line, it might be a matter of perspective.


It must be hard to do what you are doing. One-upping OP on hardship does not help him deal with his situation. Suffering is subjective and depends on your ‘baseline ‘ - which is hard to override.


You say that you feel like you have no plan going forward, but it sounds more like you lack a purpose, which is more fundamental. There’s the old adage “be the change you want to see in the world”. Maybe there’s something you’d like to exist in the world and that you could work on to bring about? Just a suggestion of a direction to think about.


You need a legacy project. Something that you can work towards as "your life's work" and leave it behind. The easiest route here is to have a child. If thats not a possibility you need something grander and philanthropic. Start a non profit org that helps people. Become a mentor and pass your knowledge on to some mentees.


Having a kid is certainly the default option, but far from the easiest, mostly because it is rather difficult to spread the burden among other people who believe in your 'legacy project' (but if you have an extended family that can pitch in or you can afford to add staff to your household, that becomes less of barrier).


It feels trite to think it, but I do wonder every time someone asks about lack of meaning and purpose; have you read classics, philosophy, and history?

I don’t think they can solve these problems for people, but a general interest and survey of works in that direction should be completed by the mid-20s as a pre-requisite to avoiding existential despair.


Sounds like you completed your first plan. Having one is good, but not worth worrying about. We all live a short while, then wither away and die, if we're one of the lucky ones. Get used to it.

Personally, I'd spend some portion of my time having fun. Then I'd spend another portion trying to improve the world and help those around me.


There's so much to do in life, why not find a completely new skill to master? Or if you've got so much free time - consider becoming a teacher. It is arguably the most important profession that exists in our world and knowing you are shaping the future through the education of others might address your lack of self-direction.


I'm far less successful than you but on the same "slow decline" boat.

I still don't know what to do but I sent questions here and on reddit. What I figured out is that I need to find a different set of values that grow, not decline when I grow older, pass 40. I have yet to find anything that fits but hopefully you can find something soon.

Good luck!


I've been giving the advice for years that actually planning for what you'll do past retirement is as important than having all the money you'll need. I've seen my parents and in-laws struggle with mental health issues and boredom more than they have ran out of money. I'm refusing to do that, I found 3 things that I really love and working on turning those into third careers go keep myself busy. The 3 things are teaching yoga, personal training for people over 50, and becoming a divemaster.


Absolutely. I'm reaching 40 this year and people around me always get surprised when I told them I'm making plans for retirement. For most of them planning for retirement is just financial, and many of them do have a solid plan.

But I'm mostly worried about the mental/spiritual part.


I too have probably peaked out (zenith) but I look fondly back at what I accomplished. I made mistakes, I wish I had behaved differently, but I regard the past as my life and I couldn't really have had it any other way. I take solace in mentoring and helping others achieve the next step in their journeys.


Fortunately you are in an excellent position to be able to just stop everything and think long and hard on what will make you happy.

Myself personally and I imagine a lot of other people out there are in the same boat, minus the money to be able to stop and reflect.

Make some changes. Maybe some will be the wrong ones, fine, keep doing it.


>I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out.

Spend the next five years (or so) figuring out how you can use that money to make a positive difference in the world. That would top just earning it. And maybe you'll feel a little better about yourself, too.


Do you volunteer at all? Teach or coach? It's time to start helping others, service and time is not only extremely rewarding, its always challenging as for there are always new people that learn in different ways. You've achieved and mastered business, time to climb a new mountain.


My father just retired from 35 years of "hard work" as a bread man. Driving around to grocery stores. Managing orders. Slinging bread onto shelves.

I say "hard work" in quotes because, as he puts it, he never had to make any decisions. He just showed up, did the work, went home. Yes, it was physically demanding, but you have to be pretty stupid to get it wrong (and yet, somehow, some of his coworkers did, but I digress).

He's going through a depression right now, and it's 100% not knowing what to do with himself. He doesn't have anyone to tell him what to do. He's 60 years old this year and has not lacked someone giving him orders since he was 18 years old and joined the Army.

I'm going on 20 years as a software developer. I've helped him on his route before. He's helped me build sales tracking databases. So we've gotten to have a bit of a peek into each other's worlds. We've had a lot of conversations about the nature of work. Being a software developer is a lot "harder" than being a ditch digger. As a manual laborer, you show up, do your job, go home. It might be physically demanding, but your body eventually adapts. You get stronger. You tolerate the pain better. Baring physical injury, you just keep on trucking.

But software development never gets easier. Nobody knows what is the "right" solution to any problem. Any particular task is potentially unbounded in the time it takes to complete it. You're always working at the limit of your understanding. Indeed, if you aren't, you're wasting time. And that's just the technical portion of the craft. There's also the office politics (which, BTW, blow my dad's mind. He says he's seen people get punched for far less than I've experienced in an office environment).

Or, at least, that's the ideal. I think, anyway. In reality, a lot of people treat software development more like ditch-digging than what I've described. Show up, do what you're told, body molds itself to chair.

How do you tell the difference between just showing up vs. actually doing the real, hard work of having to make risky decisions that might not pay off? I think a good litmus test is, in all that time, working at startups, working for other people, did you ever do anything for yourself? Did you ever make a decision--of any kind, on anything--that was not based on your expectation of how someone else would evaluate it? Your cofounders, your investors, the market, etc.?

In other words, are you the kind of person who gets bored and A) complains about it, or B) finds a box of crayons and some paper? Because option A is looking for orders.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvH3lGUdcNM This video is by Noah Keagan, and he talks about a similar situation that you are in. Maybe this will help you. Wishing you the best.


Do something physically hard, hard enough for you to slightly fear it. Martial arts, in particular BJJ would be a great option. You need to let your body command your attention, urgently and forcibly, so you get out of your own head and can appreciate comfort and safety again.


I have my own theory about the mid-life crisis.

Average life expectancy in the 18th century was around 30 years and certainly not much different in the thousands of years before. It just exploded to our modern values in the last 150 or so years. Germany introduced old age insurance in the year 1889, applying at age 70, where the average life expectancy was only 40.

I am convinced: when the members of our species used to pass away between 30 and 40 over a duration of some hundreds of thousands years (more or less after the reproduction and upbringing phase) that is somehow built into our minds and cultural awareness and souls and bodies (and probably genes). We are aware of our life expectancy and are scheduling our lives accordingly - on a subconscious level - according to our biological legacy, not today's statistical figures.

But now we turn 40, and we don't die. We go on for another 40 to 60 years, but there is no plan for that time in our souls.

In my believe, the mid-life crisis is actually an end-life crisis. It was for me, 15 years ago. I had no urge to buy a muscle car or look after younger women or whatever is considered typical for the mid-life crisis (but it might be one quite logical model to just start over with life if it doesn't end as unconsciously expected)!

In my case, I developed a very strong feeling, that I have lived my life, found my love, fathered two lovely children, seen some nice parts of the earth, liked my work, made my errors, had my woes and that if faith would hit me here and now and I would die of illness or accident, that would actually be ok. This feeling was not depressive at all and absolutely not suicidal! Just accepting, that what one would expect from life has been granted and from here on, everything else is an addon or a reward. My wife and my kids do not like me talking like this as well. It makes them afraid, that I might be tired of life.

But I am not. I still have a million ideas and plans for the future. But I realized with 45 that I will only fulfill a small fraction of them, no matter how old I will get. I made peace with it. I am not so driven any more, and less afraid of death and both are good things.

Everything you describe makes complete sense for me! Try to project it into my model of the end-life crisis: our species knows what to do until we are 40. After that, we have to invent ourselves anew. That is why you feel lost. You are! Accept the challenge, try something different, do not fall for mid-life crisis cliches and do not hurt your beloved ones on the way!


Average age was less due to high infant mortality rate. A lot of people did end up living in their 60's and 70's


This sort of ruins my theory :-(


Find a real world problem that is causing real suffering and solve it.

Think outside your field - make wave farms (electricity from ocean). Look at doing it totally underwater - there are rivers that run in the oceans.

What about getting medicine to poor countries. The NGO's are not doing a good job.


It sounds like you've accomplished a lot already and are financially stable. You can always just buy health insurance yourself if you don't want to work anymore.

Is there anything that you want to accomplish still? What do you want to be the mark you leave on the world?


If you're in Portland OR and want to grab a beer and chat, I'm down. I promise I'm not as big of an asshole in person as my comment history suggests. I'm not offering because I think it will fix anything, more just to get your mind off things.


Rich people be quiet


The bulk of this post is about your career. You need to find something else to live for. I know, easier said than done…

For me, a loving partner, my kids, my own intellectual development, art, other hobbies, full that gap. Hope you find what makes you content with life.

Also: start exercising!


> I'm not going out and buying a muscle car to cruise high school

Why don’t you try it? If it didn’t ever help people would probably stopped doing it.

If you have nothing to lose, then f*ck it! Just do something emotional you almost forgot you wanted.

Why do you care what others will think?


Go volunteer and spend time with those with less resources. Pour yourself into something worthwhile. When you take your focus off yourself and pour it into others things will improve.

I also know this isn't popular here but spiritual fitness is key as well.


The only way to be really happy is to serve others. Most of the time that means doing whatever it is that you do (working, parenting, teaching etc.) as well as you can with others in mind. Sometimes you have to do a bit more.

That’s just the way we are.


Bad midlife crisis = muscle car, high schools. Good midlife crisis = sailboat, Bahamas.


Just a suggestion but if you were gonna try Ketamine I would probably try MDMA or like 1.5-2g mushrooms first. Both can shake up the funk in your brain and get you to reassess life, Ketamine has mostly made me lay there in a daze.


> I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out.

Is "zenith" defined in terms of what other people what? Then you've been a slave your whole life. What do you want to do?


8 digit exit is 100 million right? And CTO probably got atleast 1 out of 100 of those millions right? What kind of shithole America's healthcare is that a multimillionaire has to still slog at a job for health insurance.


100 million is 100,000,000, or eight ZEROS, not eight FIGURES.

Low eight figures is a small multiple of 10 million.


Go to therapy. Quit and go backpacking. Have an affair or open up your relationship.


Is the mid life crisis a bad thing? You've got the money to spend on things and memories you've wanted. Why is doing it seen as a negative. Better to save that money for medical expenses when your body is failing?


I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

Maybe it's time to rethink how you spend your working attention. Impact can drive fulfilment.

https://80000hours.org/


Try spending some time outdoors, things like kayaking or going car camping over a 3 day weekend. It really works wonders for me by giving me the space needed to reset my frame of thought when I'm in a slump.


You might just be going through your Sade Sati (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sade_Sati). Hang in there.


Volunteer: code for nonprofits, mentor others, help the elderly or less fortunate.

Weightlift. Not bodybuilding, but heavy weights. Grinding through what seems like impossible amounts is invigorating, both physically and mentally.


Read this:

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/10/marc_marons_mid-life...


Become a teacher to understand what life is all about. You don't even have to leave your current job. Just teach wht yu have learnt to the new gen. They will thank you for the rest of their lives.


Do you try starting a family? It is a lot of fun, it is rewarding as well and distracting. I find it centering and gives me perspective. I didn't see any mention of that in your post.


What kind of advice is this? You don't just "start a family." Having a family _should_ be the result of having a compatible mate, doing a reasonable amount of planning, and the willingness to set aside decades of your life in the service of your offspring.

It is especially not a solution to some kind of deep-seated existential/self-worth issues that OP seems to have. I also get the impression that he is either divorced or not on great terms with his spouse since he refers to her as "The Wife." If so, that would be a terrible environment to deliberately raise a child in. He's also 44 which is not too old to have children, but about a decade or two past the norm.


Sorry to hear that. Depression can come and go. I hope you can look back at this point in your life at a future time and you can tell the story of how you moved into not feeling depressed


Perhaps you've focused too much on you? Would focusing on others help?

I'd also say, stay away from anything that gives you visibility. You might like it for the wrong reasons. Low key might do it


Take a sabbatical. Maybe even stop work altogether and explore hands on hobbies for a period of time. Your wife should try to shoulder the health insurance.


"Zenith" is an interesting word. You might want to ponder "growth" vs "progression."

Most of what you said suggests that you're really good at doing jobs. All that stuff has a quantitative aspect to it. There are expectations to exceed, there are "firsts," companies sell for a specific numerical value.

I've had some similar feelings about things, I used to be a bicycle racer and in my mid-40s it sort of hit me like a lightning bolt but no amount of training was going to allow me to repeat some of the things I had done on a bike in my younger years. I feel fortunate, I love riding, I loved racing too but I can experience joy from a good ride. Sounds to me, and this is a total guess, but you don't particularly like writing software (or whatever it was your companies did) so much as you like competing and progressing. You've done well, you've got all the good badges in this Pokemon go of life. Stop competing, do some art or something, take up fishing, serve lunch at a local homeless shelter a couple times a week (it's really hard to be the best at that,) be present for your wife and kids. Find something you like to do for the sake of doing and not for the progression and competition of it. Be strict with yourself about it because it's damn easy to "compete" at a lot of things. Shit, do the hard thing, and go do something you're bad at and keep doing it, you don't have to be good at it; learn pottery or glass blowing or something.

I've been doing classic outdoor activities with my kids the last couple years, shooting, fishing, archery, etc.. It's an insanely good way to create space to talk with them and just have relationships with them and then every now and then someone does something that they are really proud of. The archery guys seem to get it the best and almost have mysticisms around it, but you can do everything perfectly in these activities, you can have the best gear, you can find the best places, you can do it all completely perfect and come home empty handed... it's just not always in your control and it's still a good experience that is worth doing. There are a lot of things like that. We have a pond near us, I don't know how many times I've had a long day of problem solving, went to the pond with the kids, caught no fish at all and we all came home happier after just being outside and watching the sun go down.

Do keep talking to therapists and definitely do talk to people if you're particularly down about this day. You're young though, there is a ton of great stuff for you left to do and contribute.


You've got a golden ticket to stop working and do whatever you want. Change careers, go back to school, I don't think I'll ever have as much freedom as you do right now.


you've been dealt all the good cards (money, wife, house, no kids). you can literally do whatever makes you happy. you wanna go somewhere new? you wanna learn a language? move to another country? learn how to play the guitar? change jobs? change careers? the possibilities are endless. go crazy. think what would you like to try and try it.

it sounds crazy but i get ideas for things i wanna try from TV series (specifically, holiday destinations). i've been watching a lot of Netflix lately lol


Build something new. Do something which makes life exciting. Literally any freaking idea you can think of, try making. Doesn't matter who cares - just have a reason to wake up


Maybe you can try living somewhere else? You probably can easily work remotely (and part-time), and there are plenty of places where all the typical US things would stop mattering.


Happy birthday. Today I'm 33 and we sound eerily alike. I'll try to heed some advice from this thread and hope that I won't post the same thing in 11 years.


Glad to hear that you are seeking help. Just remember that other people out there have got it worse. So if you do nothing but enjoy each day, that's a victory.


Interesting. I've found that reminding myself that others have it worse won't make me feel any better but add some amount of guilt on top


watch this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCczNzQ01CxIGD7hMyRqcW4g . Go through the videos one day at a time. I am recommending it because its message is very simple, you can understand the teaching in 5 mins and if it "clicks" with you. You will start becoming more and more peaceful.


Try giving away all your money. Force yourself to see truly how unbelievable lucky you are (were). Makes me think of that song Common People by Pulp.

In seriousness, try charity.


- go to the gym and do body building, it is super rewarding - play videogames. Ones you like. Also super rewarding

These simpke things two helped me a lot... Also in my 40s


My faith has kept me from thinking like this, despite being very prone to it (as discovered at the times in my life when I really wrestled with my faith).


First, you have to know, not fear, know that someday you are going to die.

Been through it. Lose the wife, lose the therapist, lose the drugs, get the muscle car.


Surely you meant upgrade the drugs?


Been through that too. Would not recommend.

The muscle car, though.


Donate, volunteer, get involved in the community, world does not revolve around you and you are in age where you should give start giving back.


Do you have kids, and if not, have you considered it?


> I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out.

20s: Where your future is ahead of you.

30s: Where your future is behind you.


Look to your health. Persistent depression in spite of so much success plus therapy sounds to me like it has strong biological roots.

Find them. Fix them.


You need pursuits to give life meaning.

Build a house. Climb a mountain. Finish a triathlon. Write a book. Learn how to surf. Whatever. You need pursuits.


Travel. I've done it when I was lost and it started a new phase. Avoid tourist attractions and guided tours, go slow, go cheap.


How about you take a couple of months off and chill? Perhaps you come up with an idea on something new that you could dive into again.


44 year old here! Nonprofit work (or going to work for a tech-based non-profit like Khan Academy or a YC-funded nonprofit) could help.


So, what's your passion in life, what makes you tick?

Besides money and status, I mean.

The stuff you mention is mostly distractions, it will never make you happy.


Focus on hobbies to geek out on.

Ideally one should be exercise. Cardio, lifting, whatever.

Rest and vest. Enjoy your time with your family.

That's all I have. Hope it is enough!


Thanks for creating this thread. It's always good to hear how other people in other parts of the world are doing. Sorry to hear you're having a hard time.

I'm about to turn 39, live in northern England. I've got a daughter who's almost 14 who lives nearby with her mother. Have had a brief marriage when I was living (it up) in Australia about 8 years ago, that ended in divorce almost immediately, but que sera sera. Have had a string of other relationships that all turned sour because of my defects of character, and circumstances being not quite right. Have never had the talent or opportunity to make a success of business.

I'm now about to finish the third year of a philosophy degree, at the university in my hometown. Has taken me five years to get through, in part because of sobriety issues before coming to university after a relationship that left me really traumatised, and falling off the wagon at the end of my 1st-year of study following the needless and horrific suicide of a 19yo fellow student, who went home after our final class of symbolic logic before the summer break and was dead before midnight. (RIP Ceara). Then while recovering I bought a motorbike and got knocked off by a taxi, and ended up in hospital with three broken limbs.

Why am I telling you this? Because as a philosopher and practicing zen Buddhist there's a message you can tell yourself to get some perspective:

Your life doesn't have to look like anything.

Reading your comment I feel that you have some sort of expectation of how your life should be, and then an expectation of how you should feel. I believe "should" is perhaps one of the most unhelpful words in the English language. Yet I feel for you at the same time - when we set goals like succeeding in business or taking care of adulting, it always seems like there should be some sort of payoff and relief at the end, and the tragedy is that if it does come, it's extremely fleeting. The day you sell your business there's a great party and much joy, but then the next day comes "what now?" It's a cruel part of the human condition that our desiring centre's main desire is to satisfy it's own desire, can't actually be satisfied - attempts to satisfy it just lead to it homeostatically adjusting it's desiring level upwards to a new baseline. So while striving for your goals, having met them and very much sorted your life out logistically, it's not surprising that you feel lost.

I think it's a case of perspective, however, that you "feel" like you've hit your zenith though. In some senses that might be right, but if you go into the feeling - check your body and work out "what does this feel like?" you may find that it's not a feeling at all, but just another idea and thought you're telling yourself. It's worth spending the time working out what your feelings are compared to what your thoughts about your feelings are, for me those are often very different things. At 44, you have a long future ahead of you. Consider the idea that teenagers can become great guitarists or artists from scratch within 20 years. You could choose to develop a whole new skillset by the time you're 60. There's a world of opportunity open to you, so try to think that all your efforts have just got you to this point, and that's pretty great, and you have the gift of time and having sorted out your life that probably 90% of the rest of the planet hasn't achieved yet.

So I'd advise looking in to some new goals and things you'd enjoy for the next phase of your life, things that don't necessarily have any sort of commercial or financial "end" in mind. Something genuinely new that you can be challenged by, even if it makes you "feel" awful and go "f*k I'm shit at this and it's not going to change very quickly until I get good at it". Also a good time to really value your beautiful wife something many people would give an arm or a leg for (you say "The Wife" which I get is a bit of fun, but also could indicate a lack of connection and valuing of her, opposed to saying "my gorgeous loving wife"). I'd advise abandoning ideas that any drugs or pills are going to change anything for you. What you're suffering with is the human condition, in a western society, not an illness that needs to be drugged. A good long holiday away from smartphones, tech, and goals also seems like something you'd enjoy, and probably deserve.

Fingers crossed things change for you. I'm sure you have the resources within to make that happen.


Tangible recommendation, if slightly biased to my own interests: find your local flight school and take your first lesson.


Similar boat. Looking for my next inspiration, because then everything flows... Re-kindle the fire within.


If you don't have any debt, maybe you should look at donating to charities or volunteering locally.


I'm was/am in a very similar situation. At 39 I finished my career goals and was privileged enough to be financially secure without working, so I quit back in July.

In November I started woodworking and it has been a great outlet. Reasons why I enjoy woodworking:

- Somewhere to go/something to do. The saying `the devil will find work for idle hands to do` was real with me and the woodworking gave me purpose.

- Something to learn. Don't let the YouTube videos fool you. Learning woodworking (or anything I would assume) take time and is hard. It will feel hard. But that's okay. Enjoy the process

- I get to make things for people that brings me a lot of joy. A few weeks ago I was humbled with the task of creating an urn for my uncle. It was really special to give that to my cousin.

In regards to mental health... I have dealt with moderate to sever depression most my life as well. I tried therapy, running, seven different meds with varying dosages of some and nothing seemed to work. The only thing that worked for me were ketamine treatments. I have not tried TMS so I don't know how they compare, but the ketamine was like a switch was flipped the first day. Life changing for me when I started almost two years ago now, even though effects have faded over time. It is expensive and I encourage you find someone with a care background and not a generic clinic, but it could be a good option for some people.

My email is in my profile if you have any other questions.


You suffer from nihilism. Study philosophy, particularly that what is concerned with "meaning".


No More Worlds to Conquer: Sixteen People Who Defined Their Time – And What They Did Next by Chris Wright


I just picked this up, thank you for the recommendation.


It's weird that your family doesn't factor in at any point in this. You seem very ego-centric.


Have you tried a common trade? like bread baker, or something else? It may reward you more than tech


The solution is actually within you already. Learn to appreciate the moment, nature, the wind and rain, the sun rays, the general bussle of the world. Really! it is like a muscle, something you have to train and learn, but the brilliance of life is actually right there in front of you in every moment. Don't do therapy, that will send you further down the tunnel. Focus on learning to open your eyes, and train for it, every day. Start with the Waking Up app by sam harris.


Sounds like you have the means to just pack up and do some serious travel. serious travel.


read this book, it changed my life, maybe yours too https://www.amazon.com/Letting-David-Hawkins-M-D-Ph-D/dp/140...


42. Experiencing some of the same stuff. Don’t have answers, but happy to listen. Contact in bio.


Have you read man’s search for meaning? Or braiding sweetgrass?

It sounds like your previous purpose was making/saving enough money to feel comfortable and secure. And now you are. So you need a new goal.

Personally I’d recommend carbon fixation and sequestration. Humanity is facing an existential crisis. And it’s an interesting area of technology in a rapidly developing field.


Not reading that you have kids. If not, that can redirect focus off yourself to something more worthy IF you can maintain SOS as a parent:

S = Selflessness.

0 = Objectivity.

S = Self-awareness.

We tend to feel lost when were aren't challenged or we're hyper focused on ourselves. We tend to feel a level of contentment when we are helping/mentoring others, interacting socially in a positive way, or learning.

Hope that helps.


44 is pretty old to start having kids, IMO, and I would not advise having kids as a way to try to fix your own mental health at any age.


You may have missed the whole SOS caution.


Not for a man.


dude, drop out for a few years. take your family traveling, take the time to learn about subjects that interest you, develop a skill or even better an artistic discipline. FWIW I did that in my mid 30s and it was the best thing I'd ever done.


Existential posts are the majority on reddit r/fatfire, check it out and the answers


No one will read this but I am 44 and I have never been more satisfied with my career.


You can find feedback from others in your situation at reddit.com/r/fatfire


You should go on a nice vacation somewhere. Consider doing some volunteering as well.


Peter Drucker has a chapter on this in "Managing Oneself".

In summary:

Second or parallel careers

It’s relatively common for people to pursue second careers after their fist has peaked, or because they want to try and find success in a different area. This is especially true if your first career is in an area that is not the optimal environment for your performance – a second, or parallel career can offer the chance to make a difference somewhere else. A second career also creates options; you are less restricted when you have something else to work on.

Drucker identifies three ways to develop a second career:

- Start one – move from one organization to another, different sizes, different industries, or something else altogether

- Develop a parallel career – something on the side, or a part time job

- Social entrepreneurship – spend less time on the main job, and work on another activity (usually nonprofit)

(Abstract copied from: https://willemharmsen.com/notes/managing-oneself/ ).


You know this sounds just as „just dont be depressed“?


Happiness isn't about money, it's about remaining curious and challenged.


Isn't there something you find interesting and would enjoy exploring?


I think my comment is going to be lost in the pile, but hopefully you see it.

I'm 42, and felt very similarly, particularly after changing jobs with a nearly 100% increase in pay. I make a lot of money, especially for my COL area. I have a nice house, nice cars, kids are doing well. I felt a strong sense of something missing, and thought about talking to a therapist. I wasn't sure how to fill the hole. Began thinking about social work I could get into (doing something about poverty, equality, homelessness is high on my list of values), but haven't taken that step.

Then, I got a cancer diagnosis. It sounds cliche, but everything changed immediately. What I thought I valued was so wrong. I was so focused on the future; of being a grandparent, traveling, doing something as a volunteer...and then, WHAM.

Suddenly, this is what mattered:

Doing the dishes. Driving around town. Feeding my dogs. Walking outside on a nice day.

I reached out to a therapist, against every bit of my nature. I always felt like I could handle anything mentally, but I just couldn't anymore. She has been immensely helpful, and given me mental tools (again, sounds cliche, but believe me - great) for dealing with things I was hitting a wall with. We talked about my change in perspective. Talked about living more in the moment, or at least, that was my take-away. Since then, I have been shifting my focus to the present any time I find myself ruminating on the past or future too much. Thinking about those things is pretty pointless. Of course, I don't make reflexive, bad decisions about the future, I just stopped constantly thinking about being able to retire, where I would live, what my kids' futures looked like (that probably sounds bad, but they're adults - their futures are theirs to make now), political bullshit of the day...

tl;dr: Focus on the present. Find out what really matters to you.


Have you thought about teaching your skills to others to pass the time?


Can you tell about the time you were the most happy in your life?


Do you have children?

They can give you a wonderful focused sense of meaning. :)


Look into biohacking.


In the same boat. Email in profile if you need to vent.


I'm 29 and lost, give advice. I feel old.


Ever run a marathon? I know it sounds daft but I know a bunch of people who don't need to work any more, and they all got into triathlons, Ironmans etc. They're all crazy about it. They usually have 2 per year but there's plenty of small events during the year that fill up the calendar. It's a social circle, a fitness club and a support group. My brother in law has been part of that scene for years, and after my sis died a few years ago, they helped pull him through it, hauling his ass out for runs and cycles. He even gets business through it.


Give your money away and start again.


What's your testosterone level?


You need psychedelics, my friend.


Happy Birthday to both of us :)


Travel and give yourself time.


Learn a musical instrument!


Consider having children.


Find a Jungian analyst.


Happy birthday <3


Check out biohacking


Happy Birthday!


Have children


HELP others!


Find something to be passionate about... I'm feeling the same as you but because I am finding it hard to drag myself to look for freelance clients and I'm really needing cash because of feet-dragging for so long.

Email me if you'd like to 'hitch' to my dreams (2 of them, see below).

1. ERP for Co-ops, and Unions of Co-ops. I'd like to start a worker co-op and build ERP software for unions, co-ops, syndicates of unions/co-ops. Think normal ERP software but with systems for managing 'points' which are polymorphic as in there could be 1 or multiple pools of points, points could be earned for volunteer hours at charities, worked, or even from consumers who purchase x amount of dollars, etc...

Additionally the points can be used for profit-sharing, mutual aid, voting on issues that are open to public or workers or both, and voting points could be weighted. Maybe a jr dev gets .25 votes, a senior .5, and add .1 for each year of tenure. Execs start out with 5 votes maybe, so there's still a visionary leader or projects/companies.

The ERP software will be something not just for the union/co-op model of business but it'll be unique in having that option. It'll also be open to anyone wanting to run basically any business with parts of the app having all the stuff to start/run Shopify-like business, Affiliate programs, Restaurants with online-ordering, Delivery and Transportation businesses (Uber + Uber eats), etc.

End goal: Democratize creating businesses and encourage employee-owned companies which pay higher, keep more money locally, and are better at self-policing than an exclusively profit-motivated company.

2. Offgrid Intentional Community / Ecovillage

- Buy land between Grand Canyon and Zion National Park. - Build glamping camp w/ 20% of land, rent each of 10 sites out for $100-200/night. - Sell slots for people to build their own home or bring a tiny-home to live, or rent out. - Build common areas: Commercial kitchen, warehouse, office space etc. Entire community can check things out of the warehouse, it's like a library of everything from tools to powertools, to vacuums, and even atv's and rv's (eventually). Office space can be used by scheduling it out, or maybe create enough for all residents to basically have their own cubicle so they can store desktops/etc. - Build recreational areas: frisbee golf, rock-climbing wall, outdoor theater, horse shoe pits. - Build a community farm. - Build solar array for electricity, and huge rain-water capture systems and reservoirs to hold the water. - Have a 'maker space' with 3d printers, and other diy tools and projects to build. - Network w/ other communities to run glamping camps for them, and create a network of camps that anyone living in network of communities can use for free when traveling. So - say you go to disneyworld and there's a community nearby you could stay there and just pay for park passes. - Build homes from earthbags or eco-friendly methods if possible, earthships would be even better I think. - Create software to manage everything needed for the community to thrive, and sell that to other communities, or give it to 'syndicated' communities that are part of our network.

I believe heavily in the idea of creating networks or syndicates of people working together to basically provide common things for those with less and lift up those with less skills/etc so everyone can provide value, and become bigger and better. I'm 42, myself and also probably going through a mid-life crisis. Whenever I think about my dream projects my fog of depression lifts and I see clearly, and if I had money to focus 100% on either I'd do that right now. It'd be nice to have people to work w/ as well though to help build the things.

Technically it all plays together as a master plan to create stronger worker, consumer, and housing co-ops.

    - Housing because more housing supply via cheap diy earthbag homes, could put a dent in the housing crisis. 
    - Worker co-ops because companies ran for profit-only motives are evil. Look at dupont for an example. Because of them every living creature on earth has PFAS (Forever chemicals) in their gut. 

    A co-op though would be more open, and democratic and still motivated for profits because everybody gets dividends based on their points earned, and can vote on the way the company is ran or managed, and the money would also go to mutual-aid projects to help people in the network (consumers, workers, housing co-op members)
    - Consumer - because giving buyers mutual aid opportunities by being loyal customers keeps them loyal, encourages them to refer more business, and helps them when they're on hard times.


Might not be helpful but you're not the only one. I'm in a very similar position; there are some details that are different but otherwise I could have written exactly what you wrote, and the gist is the same.

Over time I do think I've gained some perspective on how I started feeling this way and what led me to make some decisions. Basically I just felt like my career was taking a lot, and I wasn't really getting what I wanted, even though it was successful in important ways. Critically, I felt like the choices I was making to maintain it started affecting my spouse and child in important ways, and whoever I went to -- family, friends, colleagues, they didn't really help, just told me to basically sit tight and not fret, which wasn't helpful. I think that was the final straw really; if it hadn't been affecting them as well I would have just kept with things the way they were.

What I didn't realize at the time that's taken me a few years to recognize is that my local environment was really the problem. The place I was at really changed, and became really dysfunctional in important ways. In hindsight, there are things I would have done differently, but at the time I couldn't see how to do them, no one was suggesting them, when I tried to do them, it didn't work, and people I know who had tried to do them also weren't successful. I think I attributed to my field of work problems that were especially bad where I was at, and not as bad in other places.

To be honest, as I've recognized what was happening I've only grown more hopeless, and also angry because I feel like there are really simple things that would have made a world of difference, and I find myself wondering why no one around was doing any of them. At the time I beat myself up about them, or found myself "done" with it, but in retrospect I realize how easily so much of it could have gone differently. It was the perfect storm in important ways.

Friends, colleagues, and family tend to either criticize me for not just "sticking" with it, and/or express admiration for not putting up with it, but then implore me to "move forward" but the avenues I've explored haven't worked, and no one has any idea what "moving forward" actually means in a practical sense. Others basically tell me to just change my goals or priorities, or just appreciate what I have (which is a lot in important ways) but to me it comes across as minimizing things -- which was 75% of what I was upset with in others before -- or as telling me to lie to myself, which I can't do.

I tried professional help. The therapist that I got along with was one of the only people to tell me to just try something different at the time this all started, which I did, and at this point, like you, something like ketamine or psychedelics has crossed my mind (probably the latter because if nothing else it's an experience that I've always been curious about). But to me this all seems to miss the point at some level, which is feeling boxed in or typecast by my past or something.

Anyway, I'm not sure if anything I've said is helpful. But you're not alone. I think the best advice I've gotten is to think about what it is you really want at this point, and to keep swinging at opportunities in that direction as best you can, and to keep in mind that hope sometimes means believing there's a solution when you don't know what it is. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I have the benefit of trying things out.


self-ageism


travel.


Sorry you feel that way, I'll try to be frank here, if my advice isn't useful, just don't take it.

I know a few people exactly like you, that like to boost about how well off they are and that are depressed and sad, but they treat life as it is a game of competition, this is why they usually start by displaying how "they've won", but in reality they were the only ones that were silly enough to only think about work.

What do you like to do outside of work, that isn't some sort of addiction, such as gaming, gambling and doesn't give some kind of thrill that you also get in business and while making money? Try to spend more time doing those things.

Also to say those things to your wife and come here and say is load, makes me believe you don't respect her at all. What does your therapist say about this?

You've decided to waste the best years of your life working a lot and making money, and now you fail to appreciate the things you've conquered etc. At your age, there is still a lot of things you can do. Now there is still a lot of golden days, but it will never be like you were 20, for sure.

Such as, if you try to skate, every fall will hurt much more than when you were young and take longer to recover. Same is for playing an instrument, will take much longer to learn. We are like fruits, eventually we will get rotten.

Also the way you talk about depression seems like you want to hide behind it. Honestly depressed people can't get shit done as you do, I live with somebody with it and they can't wake up, have a business or deal with commitments as you've done, to me it seems you are mostly sad because you want to always be on a peak, winning, sort of like a cocaine addict, hence my earlier comment about addiction.

A therapist can help with that, invest on more sessions and if the current one isn't working, find a new one.


> Honestly depressed people can't get shit done as you do, I live with somebody with it and they can't wake up, have a business or deal with commitments as you've done, to me it seems you are mostly sad because you want to always be on a peak, winning, sort of like a cocaine addict, hence my earlier comment about addiction

This isn't true, depression has a pretty wide spectrum, and some depressed people are fairly high functioning. There are vast differences in severity, and it also surfaces differently in different people.


Yes, but every depressed human will eventually break because of that. No way you're getting trough with that - given, the 'highly functioning' is a displacement for your depression. They have been depressed before, but afterwards it'll be much more apparent (and urgent).


Are you a psychiatrist?


Nope, but I've been diagnosed with mild to moderate depression for the past 16 years.

You don't need to be a psychiatrist to know that depression doesn't always surface in the way you described.


Echoing what other commenters are saying. Depression takes many forms, and some of them allow you to still function. Just like some people can be a high functioning alcoholic, some people can hold down a job and achieve high levels of professional success while everything else in their life is crumbling to their depression.

There's also like 5 classes of antidepressant drugs, and several more that don't fall into a specific class. Each class has several options. If the first one doesn't work for you, that doesn't mean the next wont. The biological causes of depression aren't well understood and it's trial and error to find one that works for you. I would encourage people who are depressed to talk with their doctor, and find a medication that works for them. And don't be afraid to tell your doctor one isn't working, they won't be surprised.

Depression isn't one size fits all, and the meds for it aren't either.


> but in reality they were the only ones that were silly enough to only think about work

A lot of people find passion + work align. It's ok not to waste your time watching TV, sports, playing games, art, and all that stuff people do to distract them from life. It is ok for your hobby to be work.

There are just enough people who aren't driven to work, that it bothers them. I can work 10 hours every day, and enjoy working that way on the weekends. Life is boring - if you're in charge of work, it can be fulfilling.


> It is ok for your hobby to be work.

I disagree and I also don't think watching TV qualifies as a hobby. Hobbies are something you set out to actively do and you're OK being mediocre at. Sort of like a pretend-job where there's no real pressure, only the joy of experimenting with it.

Almost by definition, you want to excel at work. You're worried about promotions, being fired, hitting your goals, getting the comp number you wanted at the end of the year, dealing with co-workers you can't avoid, bosses, beating your competitors, etc. Hobbies have none of these things. Not to mention the personal responsibility of bringing home the bacon, even if you're not the sole breadwinner, balancing life and work, dealing with conflicting schedules, etc.

Learning to play the piano or to sail or to skate or to crochet are activities that can be challenging but you don't owe anything to anyone. You do it because it's a nice way to get your mind off the stuff that does stress you.


100% true, it is exactly what I've meant with my comment.

Well, there is a lot of people that die everyday having wasted all their lives working and hating themselves because they've never made time for themselves, even if they could afford to.

As hacker news has a bunch of hustle culture bros, such argument doesn't resonate much here, it is sad to say, but even though this community motivate a lot of individuals to take charge of their lives and get into entrepreneurship, innovation and great contributions to society, at the same time, some people also end up getting trapped by money/compensation and pointless work, doing stupid shit they dislike or doesn't like as much and many divorces and sad stories, which are very rarely shared here.

OP has mentioned that he is basically done with his obligations in life and is sad, and then this cryptobro comes here to talk shit that those hustlers do.

If you want to waste your life doing amateur climbing, bowling or doing art and living off tips and being homeless, AND YOU ENJOY IT, this is what you should be doing. There will be always the Elon Musk's that will have 10 kids, 15 wives, 7 girlfriends and a couple hundred billions, you don't need to become another one.

It is the humanities, arts etc that make us humans and gives meaning to our existence in the universe. It isn't shooting fucking rockets to space.


I just call anything that isn't work - hobby. Just my shorthand for "not work"


Time you enjoy wasting is not time wasted.

just because you feel work is the only thing that gives you purpose doesn't mean it's the only thing. Having material goods and producing material goods for others isn't the only purpose in life and a majority of people will not find true happiness out of this.

It doesn't mean that laziness is the way to go, but viewing having hobby's that don't produce something as a bad thing is an awful outlook on life and just makes you a slave to others.


> waste your time watching TV, sports, playing games, art, and all that stuff people do to distract them from life

I think you have it backwards. Working is distracting you from life.


> It's ok not to waste your time watching TV, sports, playing games, art

Art?


Basically he's someone who only finds value by producing economic value for someone else. Their own wants, desires etc have no value to someone else so therefor should not be pursued. It's a pretty fucked up view of what life should be. I'm sure they're someone that views old people as having absolutely no value in life as well.


That's a less than charitable interpretation. Perhaps he simply isn't interested in art?


Lots of assumptions there ;) Maybe we as people all just like different things?


> Life is boring - if you're in charge of work, it can be fulfilling.

Life is quite exciting with the right social group. Work is inevitably drudging away while an employer takes 98% of your output for themselves and gives you table scraps in return.

This is coming from somebody who turned his hobbies + passion into his work, and then narrowly avoided hardcore burnout after he realized the industry sucked and that the only things that matter to it are that which can be sacrificed at the altar of naked capitalism. That it is filled with a million idiots that all think they're right and are supervised by slovenly magpies that pour gas on whatever fire gets them the most KPI points with their superiors.


I'm 32, wish often enough to not live, think about unfairness around the globe.

I'm often enough dreading work.

My work ethic is very high, it is my hobby and I'm really good at it.

So if that's not being depressed, I'm just realistic?


Could be both:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism


Re: "Now there is still a lot of golden days, but it will never be like you were 20, for sure.", this is not necessarily a bad thing. 20-somethings move so fast because they don't have the experience to move strategically, to stop, think slowly and methodically, gather perspectives and advice, and make deliberate, powerful moves. Older people don't need to be so hyperactive; we move with more efficiency because we don't need to move as MUCH. Learn to play chess rather than checkers. This worship of youth is disease.


Repeating what others have said, but as the person in question. I'm incredibly depressed in the sense that I struggle to find motivation to achieve fairly basic tasks such as laundry, feeding myself, etc + extremely numbed emotions, but I am high functioning through a combination of anxiety and force of will (I'm graduating with a decent GPA from a state school with a job lined up).

It can be highly invisible; in fact, I reckon that it is usually invisible and most only see the extreme cases such as your roommate.


Are you diagnosed, need to take medicine, is it chronic, do you need to visit your doctor frequently and have a lot of problems, even social issues...?

If not, then you don't have depression, you are just sad/bored like most of the people in this world and is misusing a word and kind of downplaying on depression.


Yes, I am diagnosed by two different psychiatrists and have been taking medication and been in therapy for over 7 years. It impacts my life daily and has caused a great amount of harm in my life. This includes self-destructive behavior and (long ago) suicidal ideation.

Don't make assumptions about people you don't know.


There is a lot to comment on here, but I'm going to look at this: > Honestly depressed people can't get shit done as you do

This isn't true. I'm sorry the person you're living with is having a hard time getting out of bed, but there are a lot of people out there who have very severe depression who are "successful". What you describe is just one form that depression can take.

Some of the rest of what you wrote has merit. To be honest, it just sounds like OP doesn't have a fully developed sense of self (very common, esp for people in his generation). If they connect with who they are, and pivot their philosophy in life to connect with what's important to them (their values) they should at least feel a little better. This is where working with a therapist can be helpful. I'd specifically think ACT (acceptance commitment therapy) would be helpful in a situation like this. But, I'll leave the therapy stuff to therapy people.


I personally love your take. I don't know about this person, but it resonates with me. Especially the part about treating life as a game or competition and the only success metric is work/money/power. I'm by no means a lost cause, but I dabble in that game more than I want to. Or, I should say, I assign too much self worth around those metrics.


I wrote specifically that comment above because I've wasted a few years of my life with this mindset and after therapy and a lot of struggles, I've figured out it has been what made me depressive and hate my life and myself.

But I was lucky enough to change the situation around with therapy, friends and a framework that enabled me to... and now I live in peace with a degree of peacefulness with myself.

I recognize that I can easily get addicted into something that gives me that feeling of self-improvement, money arriving in my bank account, stocks going up, being recognized by my peers. This at a modest level, it is actually great, because it will provide you a good standard of living and confort, but too much will make yourself miserable, only when I saw that I was basically like a cocaine addict and couldn't enjoy anything in my life and finally hit the breaks that my life changed.


Depression is not one thing, not everyone experiences it the same way as the person you live with.


Drop the therapy and start lifting weights. I'm not kidding.

If the problem is that you feel things are gonna be a slow decline from here, then fight it. Make that your new goal, even if you know it to be a losing battle. It will focus your mind on demonstrable milestones like hitting new deadlift personal best.

Even if you do something else, at the very least recognize that you've gotten to the point where you don't need to focus on the "work" and "money" part of life; as such treat this as an opportunity to focus on something new. After all, we only have a limited time on this earth to experience the things you want to do. This crisis is your mind's way of saying "I haven't done something I wished I had done." It isn't bad, it's just cognitive dissonance. Find the root of that dissonance and do that which would resolve the problems keeping you from finding fulfillment. This process will be emotionally painful but also cathartic.

Best of luck; know that every man has it within them to pull through this and come out the other end happy and fulfilled. So long as you are willing to question everything about why you are the way you currently are, you will eventually seek out the truths you need to proceed.


Absolutely never under any circumstances attempt to take people away from their safety net, therapist or otherwise.

You have no understanding of their wider life and concerns, and people asking for big life change help can be surprisingly susceptible to advice.


Every couple years some new trend pops up that people start claiming will fix everyone's mental health issues. One of the current ones seems to be weight lifting. I have no doubt it can be massively helpful for mental health for a lot of people, but it's awfully condescending and detached from reality when people show up say "lmao drop therapy, all you have to do is pick up heavy things".


Does your statement apply to “get therapy” itself?

I’m not trying to be snarky, I’ve seen way more advices on getting therapy rather than start lifting weight. I don’t have an opinion one way or another, but when I read the GP advice, I thought it was the one being unusual rather than common


If the claim is "just go to therapy once a week and you'll be cured", then I would say yes. Depression is multi faceted and there's no single solution. It would likewise be ridiculous for somebody to say "stop weight lifting, all you need is therapy".


Yes, but the thing is, the right therapist might help with the self-reflection you're talking about in paragraph 3. "Therapy" isn't one thing.


Absurd to ever suggest to a stranger that they stop therapy. You don’t know them. Awful, awful thing to do.


terrible advice, never tell someone who has depression or any other mental health issue to stop going to therapy.


telling them to keep going to therapy would be equally good/bad advice

...unless you care to show me clear evidence that therapy is effective in aggregate

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acps.12713


Better yet: keep going to therapy and start lifting weights!


I thought "Therapy or Crossfit (though the skill tree allows you to choose only one)." from

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-scathing-review-of-you... was a joke until I read this comment.


Ignore the other commenters this is good advice to give a man in a tough spot. If you find it yourself you'll be stronger. That's it. Life is tough and not fair, sometimes the people you rely on won't be there. The less dependent you are on others to get yourself out of a hole the better off you are.


Not sure about the suggestion to "drop the therapy"—if op's current therapy isn't helping so much, a different therapist/approach can make all the difference in the world. It took a lot of time for me to discover that kind of therapy worked best for me, and it also took some determination for me to find a therapist with whom I could really connect. My current therapist has helped me so much.


If you do start lifting, I would recommend Starting Strength (Rippetoe). The 3x5 squats, deadlift, press routine got me out of a deep depression. It gave me life. I saw that the mind is supported by the body, and without health the mind is a turmoil.


Woah, toxic masculinity alert!

By all means give weights (or running, cycling, whatever) a go, but stay with the therapy.

Better to listen to professionals rather than some rando on the web.


No no no. Never tell someone you do not know to stop going to therapy. Please be careful


> Drop the therapy

NEVER, EVER, suggest dropping therapy to someone with depression.


Terrible suggestion. Full stop. OP: Do not stop therapy.


33 here, going through a (smaller) quarter/mid-life crisis myself. I'm just gonna throw out some stuff, I hope the input might bring you to an interesting thought.

- Start a school for behavioral drugs. Mimic MDMA through behavior (a mix of meditation/hugging/dancing might do?), mimic adrenaline through behavior (easy: wim hof method maps one to one), mimic shrooms through behavior (one line I want to research here is: 14 day darkness retreats). It'd be cool if we could just mimic it all with our bodies, I think it's possible.

- Start a SpaceX competitor. You think you can do it? What can you do? Think 10x bigger, where does it start to break in your mind, why?

- If you don't have kids, try to do what László Polgár did and raise geniuses in a particular field while giving them a well-rounded life/education.

- Start teaching people and do your best to shape a city to become a better city.

I know these aren't the answers for you. Some are in the right direction for me (I call myself mettamage for a reason). But I do hope the give you somewhat of an inspirational thought that can help you.

If you're looking for more composed answers, the other comments seem really helpful :)


Possibly an unpopular answer, but have you tried exploring or investigating any religions? I'm in my mid-30s and I've found religion has given me a profound sense of purpose and identity and community compared to a lot of my peers who have similar struggles as you (rich, but increasingly unhappy and nihilistic).

Of course, there's always the question of "which religion" since obviously all religions in aggregate have contradictory teachings when compared to each other. And if you absolutely can't bring yourself to believe in something like God without hard empirical evidence, maybe religion isn't for you. But in my opinion almost any religion is better than none if only for the uplifting camaraderie alone, so if you have even the tiniest desire to believe in something greater you could just pick one you think looks good and try it out for a bit and see if it has any positive outcomes in your life. And if your initial choice turned out to be good but sub-optimal (which it most likely will if you picked at random), as your faith grows you can trust that you'll be guided to switch to the best one for you over time (if you so desire).




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