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Ask HN: How do you find peers in your field who care about their craft?
49 points by natpalmer1776 on March 30, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 19 comments
I am asking specifically from the Software Engineering / Development field fo work, but it can likely be applied to a great many other fields.

I would like to know how others go about finding peers to discuss the more abstract or theoretical aspects of their craft/trade/field to a degree that a "9-to-5er" would typically just not care about.

In my work life I find it difficult to engage others in discussions about computer science theories, or even obtain advice about perceived best practices. Those who have the knowledge and experience seem too burnt out with the industry to care, and those without are usually in the industry for the status & pay.

So how / where do you find people who care?




I run a Discord for this [0] and I started a virtual software internals meetup as well [1]. Next event is tomorrow at 8pm ET with Simon of Napkin Math and Philip O'Toole, author of rqlite.

Basically looking for people interested in hacking on databases, compilers, emulators, browsers, operating systems, distributed systems, etc. Anything cool software internals? Come hang out. Introduce yourself in #hacking-introductions.

But also, you're in the right place. Hacker News and Lobsters are great communities for this. Plus good quality Reddits like /r/programminglanguages, /r/compilers, /r/emudev, /r/databasedevelopment, /r/networkdevelopment, etc.

The /r/emudev sub has an awesome Discord server and I hear the /r/programminglanguages sub has an awesome Discord too.

[0] discord.multiprocess.io

[1] meetup.com/hackernights


What is this lobsters you whisper of?


It’s a tech-oriented link aggregation and commenting site:

https://lobste.rs/


TBH, you might be looking in the wrong place. Computer science != software engineering and you'd probably have more luck engaging with folks in academia circles. Look into the Papers We Love community as well.

I would, however, caution away from the mindset that your colleagues don't care about their craft. They probably do, but that doesn't mean that their interests necessarily overlap with yours. Calling them "9-to-5ers" seems needlessly adversarial as well, even if they do prefer more work-life balance in their life.


I just want to +1 this last point; I am a rigid 9-to-5er (actually 7:30-4 for a variety of reasons, but who's counting?), but I care deeply about my craft as a software engineer. I just refuse to work more hours than my employer is willing to pay me. I would rather improve my efficiency at work (something I spend a lot of time doing, e.g. by learning new tech, sharpening my tools) than work more hours. I chose to do this several years ago when I realized I was burning myself out and giving out way too many rainchecks to people I cared about. Point is, I can be both extremely passionate about my work (and do a pretty darn good job of it) and very protective of my time outside of work.


While I definitely do need to work on being less critical of others in regards to how 'invested' they are in their trade, I don't mean to seem adversarial. When I say 9-to-5ers I refer to those who quite simply do not care about the code they write beyond the end of a sprint. I encountered similar individuals in other industries before I started working in Software, and the reason for the lack of interest varies from struggling to just meet the minimum requirements of the role they fill to direct expressions of pure apathy to anything that happens 'on the clock'.

There is probably a better way to explain my perceptions, and again I am almost certainly suffering from premature judgment of many individuals. However, the net outcome from both cases is the same.


Yeah I might well be one of these people. I do care a lot about my craft which is writing software for people to use to solve business problems.

If my craft was more abstract or theoretical I'd care a lot more about those factors, be better versed on them. But my actual daily work is actually very grounded, applying known solutions to well understood problems. The craft is in the execution and refinement of it, not the theory here.


Generally you have to look for non-traditionalism (by today's standards) in terms of elementary/high school education, elementary/high school hobbies/activities, etc. This used to be the norm but not so much now.

Most Americans are raised and educated to be compliant and submissive, which is the kiss of death to "giving a shit" about anything. You have to be willing to take risks and rock the boat to have interesting and relevant opinions and interests. Too many won't do that.

Most of the people I've found who "give a shit" tend to have strong moral/religious training while young, tend to be home-schooled, tend to have had fairly intense nerd hobbies in their youth, tend to have been raised by parents to lead and/or decide what is right on their own compass or by critical thinking rather than by others.

In general they did NOT go to public schools, NOT live without religion in their youth, NOT go to top tier universities (especially not Ivies or West Coast Ivies), NOT tend to go along with the crowd for morality or ethics or otherwise demonstrate NPC-traits.

The top people who work for me were non-traditional in one or more of the above ways. Some didn't even graduate with university degrees but have a passion for everything they do in an autodidactic way.

Sadly most people I get unrequested resumes from or interview are pretty close to being dead inside - NPCs. To avoid this, I usually go to where the right people congregate, talk with them, and also just watch how they approach everything around them. Better if in-person but online works sometimes. I've gotten pretty good at reading the NPCs from the non-NPCs.


Listen to podcasts in your specific field, follow the podcasters and their guests, attend events where they will be speaking at, or reach out via email. Good luck!


Good question. I have found only 1 person in the world that cares for what I have an interest in. All my other heroes are in the grave.


Your comment fills me with existential dread, however I appreciate you sharing it nonetheless.


Tell me Randolf, what is that interest that eludes every other person?


I’d also love to know the answer to this question. I have a few good friends that are really passionate about computer science and programming and we talk all the time about it. However, finding more has been pretty hit or miss. There seem to be a much larger proportion of people like that working at Google, Facebook, etc that I have met, but working at those places obviously isn’t a guarantee that they’re like that.

I guess the only advice I could generalize from this would be to seek out the people working at the top end of whatever industry you’re interested in, as the people who are truly passionate about a subject are likely to be talented and probably working at whatever place is considered the “best”.


> as the people who are truly passionate about a subject are likely to be talented and probably working at whatever place is considered the “best”

I'd be cautious with this assumption. Not that it's always wrong. Places that are considered the best attract type-A's that crave external recognition and don't really care about their trade. In another era they would have been in finance.

Not that I think software is saturated with these people, but your assumption could break down. For example, you end up getting people organizing a meetup or code+coffee or whatever because they want to be seen as organizing it and not because they actually care about it.


I am also just generally skeptical of reputations because of how they can outlast the behaviors that earned them. Years ago I worked for a great company, truly wonderful group of people with a really careful, respectful approach to work.

Then there were a bunch of big leadership changes and it turned to shit and I left. I kept on hearing about that amazing "culture" for 2-3 years after that, they actively used that reputation in recruiting even. I still knew people there and it was even worse than when I left. Once companies know they are known for something good they will milk it whether or not it's real.


I’m not saying this is a great way to do it but — you can go somewhere that if you can’t stay passionate, you drown.


Could you expand on this a little? I'm not quite sure how I would go about finding places like that, as the line between 'passionate about technology' and 'passionate about making money' tends to get a little blurry when taking in first impressions on phone screens and interviews.


Find independent projects. I work a 9-5 job and stopped giving a crap about it. I still have an interest for my personal projects though. Not that I have much time to devote to it, nor am I great at it. But I do care about it.


If you are looking for in-person, I think it’s a numbers game. I would like to meet more people like this myself, but I have found a few just by meeting friends or friends that are engineers.




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