This SE, and the previous one, are significantly larger. The iPhone 13 Mini is closer to original SE size but still larger (around 8mm longer and 6mm wider).
Currently using the original SE and I'm quite happy with it; as a device it still performs decently too. I don't need more than that for my use so I'm going to hold onto it till it dies out. One issue I've had with the small size is that a lot of websites are not rendering properly with this screen size and make the assumption that my phone's size is larger. It's not the device's problem the websites are broken but it's quite telling that the whole industry moved on to phablets.
A teenager nephew saw my SE recently and he held himself from laughing at it. I take pride in using an old phone.
I also have an original SE, and it's not only websites that renders strangely, also apps are sometimes unusable. I guess iOS developers forget to test in lower screen resolutions just as much as website developers.
Rather than forget, they may just have reprioritized. Or outright remove it from consideration. It's possible that users of much older phones don't spend enough for them to put time into it.
Is it smaller than the 6S? Some websites that aren’t mobile are tiny on the display but otherwise it’s fine. I don’t use that many apps but never encountered that issue.
Would like to know because once my 6S doesn’t get updates anymore, I’ll probably switch to a SE.
Kind of ironic considering that a sizable fraction of people using the new iPhone SE set it up so that the logical screen resolution matches that of the original iPhone SE (that is, they turn on Display Zoom).
Used it for so many years, just last year I switched to the 12 mini. The form factor was my primary decision in using the SE, and when my last one broke I decided that the relative improvement in battery life was worth trading to a larger phone. I'm happy enough but if they make a phone the size of the SE again I'll switch in a heartbeat, and I would not be sad if I had to "down"grade again in the meantime.
I use the old SE and even big company websites are broken on that screen size: if anyone from Airbnb is browsing this forum, your home search is broken on the SE, the date filter popup covers up so much space that you cannot actually submit your query!
I still have my original SE, but I use it as a secondary offline phone precisely because the web and apps are no longer optimized for it.
If I turn off data and WiFi the battery lasts for days and it's still perfectly usable for calling and listening to music since it still has 3.5mm jack unlike my "new" iPhone 11.
How is your OG SE even still functional? On mine the screen started to fall off and the battery started to fail, which, the cost to repair was as much as buying the SE 2020, so that was what I did rather than repairing it.
My OG SE is in perfect shape. Some people are just more careful with things that others. I've had to replace the battery and the Lightning port in January, everything else is still original and works fine.
How do you use it? I've not had any issues with mine, but I've not been using it super heavily due to COVID/WFH. I don't think it'll be an issue for my normal post-COVID behavior, but I can see it being a stretch when I'm off at a conference, using it a lot, and without easy access to charging. I also expect that 2 years from now it'll probably be borderline for perhaps 20% of my days.
I'd be curious to know what your situation/usage is that it's been unsatisfactory.
My daily usage is mostly whatsapp, twitter, reddit. I don't do heavy apps like TikTok, Instagram or Facebook. Figure that out how much battery but a friend of mine depletes the battery twice as fast as me during a day. The mini and SE would be good for some casual usecases, but for example, when i go offroad and use apps that uses the gps, the battery dies pretty quick. I will not go for the max models, but the middle size models are much battery performant than mine.
I'm replacing my own and my close circle old iPhone's batteries with Nohon brand batteries from China. They work as well and as long as new original ones. Advertised capacity is even higher than original, but I haven't measured it to confirm.
Depends what you use it for (with my 12 Mini). If you use your phone for lots of media consumption, like most do, you'll find it lacking I think. As for me, its a communications device, and handles an hour or so of YouTube in the morning, then gets through my workday and onto my charger in the evening with no issues.
I wish I still had my first-gen SE, because it actually fit in my small hands, and its nice solid rectangular body made it easy to hold and hard to drop. The home button on that unit was starting to give out after 4 years of heavy service and I didn't want to spend the money for an out-of-warranty repair.
Unfortunately the Gen 2 is also mostly "non-repairable"; I had to get a total phone replacement for something as simple as a dying Thunderbolt port. According to the person at the Genius Bar, the 12 Mini is much more repairable, more like the first-gen SE in terms of its internals.
This SE Gen 3 still has the rounded/slim iPhone 6 body style, so I would expect it to be equally non-repairable. So all things equal, I would still go for the 12 Mini over the SE Gen 2 if I could make the choice over again.
I still have my first-gen SE and it's my primary phone, the battery have started to show its age. I am also experiencing the problems you mention with the home-button being worn out, in humid conditions it will press without me pressing it, I've sort-of solved it by using the on-screen home-button (I haven't found a way to tell iOS to ignore the hardware button).
It's the perfect size of a phone, I've considered seeing if someone can replace the battery and the home-button.
It's quite easy to replace the battery yourself. You can buy a kit with a battery and all tools, follow the included instructions, watch a video tutorial if you need.
I've done this twice. My OG SE's battery is at 98% health right now and easily lasts me a day and a half except for days where I navigate with GPS.
It's a huge advantage for bike touring: I can charge this thing with a dynamo in a couple of hours because the battery is only 1600mah. That's less than a third the size of the battery in the current Pixel 6/6 Pro.
I have tried to switch my high use items (daily chargeables) to use magnetic cables/plugs that mimic the function of the original magnetic power cables on Macbooks (these are on EBay under various names). If you keep items for the long run, it seems like one runs the risk of wearing out the contacts on the port inside the device. This also serves to prevent dust/lint from getting inside the port. No data function available this way unfortunately.
I've swapped the case on my iPhone 8 - the Lightning port is on a separate board and I don't believe there's any active logic in it that would prevent replacement. It's quite a long process though that involves taking most of the phone apart - plan around 3 hours if you don't have previous experience.
Not an iOS fan but if I was I always really liked the rectangular bodies so much better. Not to mention when they were stainless steel they scratched a whole lot less easily.
I didn't upgrade my original style iPhone SE until the iPhone 12 Mini came out. It's a little bit larger but still manageable, unlike most other phones that come out these days. No headphone jack though sadly.
For almost 4 decades 1/8" was a "just works" standard for interfacing consumer audio output from electronics. No fuss. More reliable than airpod pairing. Doesn't rely on battery life. No latency issues. Interference vanishingly rare.
Yeah, I can buy a dongle. Maybe I will someday when my original SE dies. Maybe I'll never buy an Apple phone again. But if I do buy a dongle, every time I will be cursing the person who took out the 1/8" jack.
My daughter has broken 3 of these in the last couple weeks. Also, you can't charge the device and listen to music at the same time (unless you buy that extra dongle).
I'm kicking myself that when I bought the original SE in 2016 I opted for the smallest memory size. 16GB is just not enough any more, with the size of apps and OS constantly increasing. I'm seriously tempted to buy a used one with a bigger memory card, but am worried about end of life for OS upgrades.
I have an original iPhone SE and it's the best phone I've ever had. But it does have only 16GB and I have to suffer with offloading apps. Still, I was delighted last September when the SE made the cut for iOS 15. I'll probably replace it with a iPhone 12 mini sometime over the next few months. It's been a long run.
I would argue that the screen real estate is enough but with the ~2:1 screen ratio the iPhone X introduced and excessive UI whitespace bloat program UIs are just no longer space efficient and so the true area of importance ends up being the size of about two postage stamps.
Seems that it's not on GSMArena for some reason, so it doesn't appear in my linked search and I hadn't seen it. I'm a bit surprised as they usually have everything.
I suppose it depends on your definition of small and powerful. My phone is smaller in width and height than the SE (which is what your gsm arena filters on), but has a larger volume due to being twice as thick and weighs 3g less.
With 6GB of ram and a 8-core (4 big + 4 little) 2GHz MediaTek CPU, it's more powerful than the dual core A9. On the other-hand its 480x854 screen is much lower resolution.
I admit I'm being a little unfair on "small", to suit my own preference. But you could fit a 5" edge-to-edge screen in original SE size (the iPhone 13 mini has a 5.4" screen), and it'd be fantastic. Hell you could do a 4" screen - same size screen as the original SE - but make it edge-to-edge and the phone would be tiny and just as functional (except maybe battery life...).
I have a first-gen iPhone SE and it's been great, but the hardware is starting to wear out. I actually bought a Unihertz Jelly to migrate to but I'm waiting until the iPhone SE becomes unusable before switching over. How are you finding the Jelly?
In fact, the A9 is likely at least as fast as the Helio P60 your Jelly’s got. It generally performs better than the Snapdragon 835, which is a higher performance implementation of the A73 + A53 design.
Yep. I don't care if the new one is "only half an inch" bigger than the old SE. That's still half an inch too big. Apple absolutely nailed it with the original SE dimensions, and I will never upgrade until they make another.
Once it was clear that Google was totally done releasing phones that fit in my pocket, I upgraded my Pixel 3 to a 13 mini. It's an amazing phone. Not as small as the OG SE, but I'm not sure I'd want it any smaller.
On one hand, I actually grew to love the current size of iPhones, 13 feels just right.
On the other hand, touch id worked so much better for me. Not only with masks in public, but also the fact that I unlocked my phone as I took it out of my pocket and it was unlocked when it was in front of me.
Seems like such a small difference but I still miss that convenience.
Now with this phone, it's hard to tell which I care about more.
I have had no real issues with Face ID. The Apple Watch integration for masks was great and gave me haptic feedback whenever my watch unlocked it, and the new (beta?) feature allowing it to work without a watch works from the get go >90% of times, with the other 10% asking me to look down so it can better map out the eyes.
In fact, my iPad Mini is the only device that is Touch ID only and I find I expect it to be unlocked by just looking at it, and always have to remember to tap the power button.
> Indeed the UX of grabbing your phone and it's unlocked in one step is a superior UX. Face ID is three steps.
I pick up my iPhone and look at it, and its unlocked. I'd be picking it up and looking at it anyway, so that's 0 steps as far as I'm concerned. I don't have to touch it in a particular place with one of a particular set of fingers. Surely as a UX professional you can see how it's at least arguably a much simpler UX?
Actually its pick it up, then look at it and then swipe up. That's three vs. grabbing your phone with thumb and it opens.
Also, if you ever need to open your phone while driving (not a good thing but too many do it) grabbing it with thumb and it unlocking is a lot safer then ... grab it, look at it and swipe up.
Or even if it's just sitting on the desk/table/counter/etc. and you want to use it without picking it up. I do this at least 10s of times per day, and for that reason will always own a Touch ID enabled iPhone.
Also, it's great they now have "wearing a mask" support, but the "wearing a motorcycle helmet" is still not on the feature radar. Once again, Touch ID is not affected by this.
> Actually its pick it up, then look at it and then swipe up. That's three vs. grabbing your phone with thumb and it opens.
That's to get to the home screen, not to unlock it. To get to the home screen with a home button, you still have to perform the step of "going to the home screen", but you do it via pressing the button instead of swiping up. Same # of steps -- though to be honest, it's a bit silly to compare this, since what counts as a step? And why are we just comparing steps and not other forms of complexity?
At any rate, my point is that it should be very easy for a "UX professional" to see why Face ID is a simpler experience in some cases, if not all. The point being that Touch ID vs. Face ID is a tradeoff, not a clear "one is better than the other".
Unlocking and going to the home screen is how one uses an iPhone and what I was talking about in terms of unlocking your phone and using it. Forcing me to swipe up after I've already unlocked it with my face is another unnecessary step. Further those are three steps.. grab phone step one, then look at step two and then swipe up step three. Way too many steps if you ever need to use your phone while driving. Cause again in that instance I grab my phone from empty passenger seat with my thumb and it's open to use before it reaches my face.
Further steps matter hugely in UX even if you perceive them to be small cause in UX it's not just your experience im designing for it's the use case I mentioned, as well as the use case mentioned below wearing a helmet and other use cases (OMG having to pull my mask down if I had a FACE ID phone awful another step) you find in one's UX research. Steps matter in UX even the smallest of them ...the least the best always!
> Unlocking and going to the home screen is how one uses an iPhone
No? Much of the time I unlock my phone it's to look at notifications or widgets, or use the camera. I'll grant you its a bit pedantic but "unlocking" does have a specific meaning, and is a separate action from going to the home screen. No, it's not really "how one uses an iPhone".
> it's not just your experience im designing for it's the use case I mentioned
This is exactly my point. You are arguing in absolutes, that Face ID is objectively a worse experience. But that's not true, there are many use cases in which Face ID is better (gloves are the obvious example), and many use cases in which it is worse. I mean, as an example, just look at how many people say they prefer Face ID. Clearly it cannot be a universally hated feature.
Yes but it will always be too many steps then one step grabbing phone and having it unlocked / ready to use before it's in my view. Gloves I rarely wear a face mask I and 100s of millions have been wearing everyday multiple times a day since pandemic started. You live in a city face masks are still a forced thing.
As a UX professional who strives for path of least resistance always That's the point I'm trying to make. Too many steps especially when driving is bad UX worse it's dangerous UX(yes don't use phone while driving but unfortunately too many do)!!!
Eliminating Touch ID completely especially when all its competitors offer both is stupid and no doubt I'm sure the data shows Apple it's base really wants Touch ID back. Read comments on the SE on all blogs and you will see such dataset saying they want Touch ID not Face ID. Both need to be offered!
> Yes but it will always be too many steps then one step grabbing phone and having it unlocked / ready to use before it's in my view.
Okay, no point discussing this anymore, because I've responded to this point twice now and you've ignored it each time (that the "number of steps" is both dependent on the use case, and a meaningless measure anyway).
Author is saying similar thing ... steps matter in crafting the best UX .. they are not a meaningless measure as I'm sure you go crazy if you went to a website and to submit a document you had to upload then click a continue button that took you to another page that than had the submit button on it. THat's just stupid .. steps are no way a meaningless measure in UX they are the biggest rule when designing ... K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid .. adage).
I hope you are not a designer you'd add unnecessary steps it sounds ;-)
>On one hand, I actually grew to love the current size of iPhones, 13 feels just right. On the other hand, touch id worked so much better for me. Not only with masks in public, but also the fact that I unlocked my phone as I took it out of my pocket and it was unlocked when it was in front of me.
Only Sprint offering an amazing upgrade caused me to move to iPhone 13. I really don't like Face ID for the reasons you mentioned.
I like the phone otherwise but really wish that it also had Touch ID. If Apple doesn't want to mar the front with a physical touch sensor, it can put it on the back; I have an Android phone that has this. If iPhone 14 has both I will quickly upgrade to it.
I was pro anti-FaceID because I think as you. Finally I bought 13 mini because I want a decent iPhone and iOS 15.4 public beta has come.
I almost satisfied with it. It's not the best as the best fingerprint sensor, but it works most of the time. Even with mask, it just take like less than seconds. It's pain that sometimes not work well when sunlight shines my face.
I also perfect a smaller phone. I'm ok with the 13 but my biggest issue on size is actually the bezel. It's to small so when i type my left hand palm hits the keyboard and switches it to n3mb34s (like that).
This is what pushed me back to Apple after a single Android device. After 18 months, it was running like crap, and when I bought it, it was considered one of the best flagship Android devices available (there was another that was equal, so it was a coin toss between them).
Yeah there's an Android Slowdown Syndrome that I don't know what it is... but Android has it. My wife's old iPhone 8 still runs fine. All my old android phones from that time are a mess.
I bought the first android phone, the G1, back in the day.
It had a peculiar bug where the entire phone would slowdown if you had too many text messages stored, among other things. A factory reset would fix it though.
A bit disappointing that solution still needs to be a thing.
I'm unsure this is true. I was certainly disappointed when I went for a Samsung S8 at launch and found it laggy and glitchy 12 months in, and unusable at 18 months. As a short term money saver, I bought a 2016 iPhone SE and was amazed to find it got 2 more years of updates before I finally decided to retire it.
Between lacking support and poor performance over and over in the Android ecosystem, it became a very easy decision to move over to the Apple lock-in unfortunately. Their phones generally stay out of my way and work snappily when I need them to.
It's a real shame to have had this experience, and to watch others around me have similar issues before jumping ship to Apple. I think the competition provided by the big Android vendors is important, but I just can't justify dropping money on a new device every 18 months.
I've been with Android since the beginning (though Apple everything else). But I'm just tired of needing a new phone every year just to get ok performance.
A few weeks back I got a free iPhone 6, and was amazed at its performance. When I compared it to my OnePlus 2 phone from a year later, it's night and day performance wise.
My next phone will be an iPhone, no question.
I had a top of the line samsung, and the _native_ google maps app was slower than a web view google maps on an iphone SE.
I think that there's a lot of stuff about tuning, but the latency story (at least up until 3 or 4 years ago) on Android has been absolutely garbage, no matter what geekbench scores the phones get.
Sony phones and the Google mainline phones seem to work well when I use them though (though ultimately lots of android apps are also just not very good)
Took about 10 minutes to install and most of that was just waiting for the os to transfer to the phone. Really easy install guide. Works great. I wouldn't ask grandma to do it, but the technical crowd here probably isn't scared of running a couple cli commands.
That still doesn't address the issue that it's community-supported and can disappear at any time. Cyanogenmod used to be the main alternative ROM back in the day, and disappeared virtually overnight? It came back as LineageOS but it still meant that people had to reinstall (or somehow convert their Cyanogen install into Lineage, if that's possible) which takes time.
There's also the endless juggles of "is this phone supported, do I need to root it, is the root current, no wait this version is just different enough from that version that I need a custom version of the ROM from a third party, oh the SOC means that the kernel can't be patched for security problems" and so on.
Ah yes, the answer to "I would like a reasonable degree of support and security for my phone without having to be a full time sysadmin" is "treat your phone like a 1997 Linux PC project.
I devote significant time to avoiding taking on sysadmin tasks. Just got Frontier Fiber. Had always done my own network admin, but they throw in a couple of routers and I decided it was better to have something they supported than try to make sure I had coverage on every square inch (sorry from USA) of yard. We'll see if I am happy with that choice.
Well it has 1 more lens for wide angle. As far as iPhone goes, if you like to zoom out when taking photos, you need to buy the 2-lens models; if you like to zoom in, buy the 3-lens model.
I'm glad they're making a new one - not so I can buy one, but so that the previous gen will be cheaper now. This next 'generation' is perhaps the smallest upgrade ever done in the iPhone line. At first I thought that was the 12 to the 13, but again Apple has outdone themselves.
My mom uses an old iPhone 5, and is only giving it up this year because the carrier will no longer support 3G. I am glad the new SE phone is available ... the button and small form factor are really important for her.
The single home button was such a brilliant UX move. It's been weird to watch them ditch it. Such a genius little safety blanket for ordinary users. "WTF is going on?!" Press home—the only button visible on the face of the phone—and you're back in familiar territory.
I was one of the people who could never get the damn thing to work right. And re-training it a few times a year just to get it back up to a ~50% success rate, because of humidity changes, was no fun. Eventually I just started using a code again, since I'd end up there more often than not anyway. But it seems like it was probably awesome for people who didn't have trouble with it.
I'm also one of those who could never get the Apple fingerprint reader to work well--for me it was 50/50 whether it worked or not. Like the parent I ended up switching back to code entry which was usually quicker anyway. So when I moved over to Android I was very suspicious whether the Android implementation would be any better--and in fact it is miles better. My Samsung S21 recognises my fingerprint around 9 times out of 10. It works even in situations (e.g. sweaty fingers) where the Apple implementation would not work at all. What makes me even more impressed is that the S21 has the fingerprint reader embedded into the screen, whereas Apple had the advantage of a dedicated space for the fingerprint reader without a screen getting in the way. YMMV of course but now I understand how nice it is just to press your fingerprint and it just works. Wonder if there are people who have unusual features in their fingerprint that causes Apple's implementation to struggle?
> it is miles better. My Samsung S21 recognises my fingerprint around 9 times out of 10
That second sentence doesn’t imply the first one. The Samsung could have a lower false positive rate (letting the registered fingerprint unlock the phone more often) at the cost of a higher false negative rate (letting unregistered fingerprints unlock the phone more often)
In the limit, if it rolled a ten sided die for any press of its button, and unlocked the phone unless it rolled a one, that would give users the impression that it recognizes their fingerprint 90% of the time.
(Of course, “doesn’t imply” doesn’t mean the first sentence isn’t true, either. It may be genuinely better, or Samsung might have chosen a different cut-off, sacrificing security for a gain in usability. I wouldn’t know. Do any phone reviews test these things at all?)
IIRC my touchID phone was one of the early ones to have it (a 7+, maybe? I don't recall for sure). I've used I think three different Apple laptops with touchID, and they've all worked fine. It could be that early versions of the hardware didn't like something about my skin, but later versions (by the time they started putting them in laptops) were fine. I hold on to phones quite a while, so my next upgrade after that had faceID. In fairness to Apple, I didn't try any of their later touchID-equipped models of phones.
I recall that Touch ID on both the 5s and the 7 was equally poor for me so it doesn't seem that the second generation has improved things for me at least.
I wonder why fingerprint readers act up for some people, is there some sort of physiological reason? It works perfectly for me, but I've seen how much a tech-savvy friend of mine struggled with it (for them, faceid was a godsend).
I suspect it's got something to do with skin oils or natural variation in skin moisture. I know that big humidity swings were guaranteed to ruin it for me. Air gets dry in the winter, touch unlock drops to maybe 20% success rate at best. Fix it by re-training, then in late Spring it does it again when the air gets wetter.
The ones on their laptops, however, have been reliable. Possibly there was a generational improvement in the equipment before it hit the laptops, and my problems were just because I had an early model on my phone.
I'm not on an iPhone, but I might have an insight about this.
My home country is a very humid tropical country in Asia.
When I was in the United States (I was in a cold dry place), the fingerprint reader works perfectly. Instantly. Never had to try a 2nd time.
In my home country, it works like 40% of the time.
However, if I'm in an air conditioned room in my home country (the AC sucks out all the humidity), then the finger print reader starts working perfectly again.
So, humidity and moisture/sweat on my hands might have been a factor.
You'll have to do that anyway again for the masked unlock feature. It scans the top half of your head more thoroughly, so requires you to look down at the phone.
Yeah for me it works great. I feel like now everything opens automatically as long as the thing is in the general direction of my face, whereas one used to have to constantly make a conscious action (push the fingerprint reader).
Yeah, to be clear, the fingerprint reader is what never worked well for me. 2-3x a year of re-training because it'd stop working at all if the air (and so, my skin) got too dry, or too wet. Pretty bad success rate even when it was "working". Masks aside, face unlock has worked great for me.
[EDIT] But if touch-to-unlock had worked for me, and if I had to take one or the other, I might prefer it.
I've tried some Android phones with fingerprint reader in the back, and it's 10x better than iPhone fingerprint reader in ways you can't imagine until you've tried. Unfortunately I still have to stay with iPhones for other reasons.
Having a "safe" area to hold the phone by and be guaranteed it won't interact with anything is also nice. Yes, in my experience the touch rejection at the bottom for the new borderless iPhones is very good, but it's still a touch surface that under the right conditions could do something unexpected (and never underestimate non-technical users to break something you thought was bulletproof).
As someone who used to feel similarly, I've acclimated to the touch system now. I think it's pretty brilliant – swiping up from the bottom gets you the same function.
It's fine for me—though I probably fail the swipe-up gesture in one way or another 10% of the time, say by accidentally engaging the task switcher instead, or not quite getting close enough to the edge, which basically never happened with the button—but the button was a great affordance for the less-tech-savvy.
Am probably older than your Mom (an demographic/actuarial guess) and I am sorely tempted to get it. I have been team Nexus/Pixel for a decade but am miffed at the upsizing of the devices. adding 50% screen space doesn't make up for 5x diminished visual acuity. A random comment I saw somewhere about how bad CarPlay was compared to Android Auto gives me pause. I have become dependent on effortless linking of phone to car.
My mom *hates* her iPhone 12 Mini because there is no more home button.
She often wants to defenestrate it, and I do, too, because I am stuck attempting to explain something that used to need no explanation: How to go back to the home screen.
Bring back the home button with mechanical, tactile feedback in the square form iPhone, please.
This is definitely not for me. In 2022, having LCD display, huge bars and just one camera, when Android phones give me for the same price much better display and cameras, not worth the money.
But it's fine, if I was in the business of buying a new phone and wanted a discount, I would buy an old iPhone XS or 11 Pro or something. I have XS and the speed is great, I care more about screen and cameras than CPU speed. (Which is good enough anyway.)
XS team here too - it's the last budget-friendly iPhone with a portrait camera.
While a wide camera is a useless gimmick (or a requirement for AR that hasn't arrived yet), a portrait camera allows for great photo composition. Apple knows it and uses this as a gate to force people who care about photography into the $1000+ Pro range.
Lighting is a much firmer connector from what I've experienced. The latency on audio is also miles better if you do music. I returned an ipad with USB-C - unusable.
I've heard that USB C is inferior too but shouldn't this be a settled issue one way or the other ( whether Lightning is superior or USB C is superior ) especially on HN. Either it is or it isn't. Charging is way too important to be left to the whims of some European regulator looking to penalize Apple. I have no preference in the matter and just want something that is superior in performance.
All I've seen on this matter is these kinds of videos on it
USB-C is TRASH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXO0LtDvt-M
I can't speak to Lightning, since other than my macbook we're a non-apple household, but USB-C has been a game-changer as far as cable management in our house. Between chargers that negotiate the right amount of charging, and having cables that work on all of the laptops/chromebooks/phones, its orders of magnitude better than micro-usb was. (The only problem I know of is that fast-charging depends on your cords.)
I'd much rather have a less-optimal phone charging cord + port (usb-c) that lets me use any of my five accessible chargers than have to sit down and recognize which cord works with which device, or negotiate with my wife or kids over the (fewer) phone-only cords. :)
I think the EU mandated micro USB before - which was really bad. I was glad that Apple just did the extra dongle or whatever instead of switching everything to that crap.
USB-C is better than micro-usb. That said, if you do audio mixing, if you do a ton of cycle on a charger, lightning is just clearly better. The USB standard has a little plastic thing in the middle of the hole this fatigues. Apple offered lighting but I know folks just didn't want to do the standard because it would be adminiting that their micro-usb standard was not as good. They did copy a lot of lighting with USB C however (reversible connector etc).
Sure. USB's port has a little tab inside, I think its like 0.6mm. Because they put a TON of pins on this little tab (24 pins!) the tab itself in almost all cases has to be plastic or non-metal.
Lighting by contrast tends to have a metal tab which is relatively beefy at 1.5mm. This is much stronger materials and dimensions wise AND is on a part (the cable) that is pretty easily replaceable. So that's a win win win.
Despite this, the port itself is SMALLER for lighting. So add another win?
Finally with lightning the interface is simple, it's one piece inside another and the tolerances seem really good / there is an little indent to help seat a lightning cable. With UCB-C you have a shall going around a tab, so loading is onto the interior surface with flexing, then a shall around that, so tab -> surrounded by cable shell -> surrounded by port shell. In my experience this just results in a fair bit of slop in accumulated tolerance issues.
What's the camera like on this one? I owned the last-gen SE and it's camera was the main reason that I upgraded to the 13 Mini. It was truly awful -- it made my Pixel 2 XL's camera seem WAY, WAY better than what the SE had.
Looking at the press release, I don't see anything about any "new" camera tech. The lens looks pretty similar too. Is anybody able to confirm if this is the same camera as the last gen model?
It’s in the sub-headline, and there’s an entire section about it:
iPhone SE features an all-new camera system powered by A15 Bionic, with a 12-megapixel ƒ/1.8 aperture Wide camera that offers incredible computational photography benefits, including
12-megapixel ƒ/1.8 is an unchanged camera from 2020 SE. They are running with iPhone 8 cameras for another few years and trying to fix the image quality with software.
Agreed, everything else I love about my current SE, but the camera was near zero improvement over my 6. If it’s single lens it’s likely to still be a significant shortcoming. They try to workaround it with better image processing algos but it’s not the same.
Isn't it basically the same lens + sensor package from the iPhone 8? If so, it's a bit long in the tooth, and no amount of computational power on the A15 chip is going to overcome its shortcomings.
Pixel 5 is "small" in android parlance, but still bigger than the Pixel 4a for instance, which is already slightly bigger than the SE.
I think parent could have been fine with a Pixel 4a if it wasn't for it starting to age (using the lastest OS on it, feels definitely slower at times , especially when starting the camera which is a bummer)
I was adding info on how app use in it is when the edit-window closed...
Most apps are actually fine, if a bit cramped. The exception is dialogs. I usually have to scroll to see all options. You get used to it, but it isn't great.
Webpages are alright, but I do occasionally need to hide the keyboard while filling out forms to see feedback provided below the input (e.g. username already taken, passwords don't match, invalid CC #).
I've never really gamed on my phones, so can't speak there.
The one thing I did with a larger phone that I don't do on my Jelly2 is read things like textbooks and comics where images and text need to be laid out like print. It's too small to fit a whole page of legible text and images at once. 720 horizontal pixels and a 5" screen is the minimum there IMO, though really this is what e-ink tablets were made for.
Does it run a non-Google/free OS? My primary qualm about switching to a budget Android phone from an iPhone is the security and privacy aspect, which seems okay under Apple but atrocious under Google/Android.
I think the Samsung Galaxy S10e and some of the Google Pixel models are nearly hand-size, but I don't know of any that rival the (now unsupported) Xperia XZ1 Compact. The XZ2 Compact is (AFAIK) still supported by LineageOS, but it's chunky.
I have read rumors that a new Xperia Compact model is likely within the next year. I don't want to get my hopes up too high, because this is unconfirmed and because the definition of "compact" seems to be expanding over the years, but I am optimistic.
I doubt that we'll ever see the likes of the Xperia Mini Pro again.
Nearly impossible, and I'm saying this as a lifetime Android user.
Your best bet would be boutique OEMs like Unihertz, who have a 3.1-inch Jelly phone (underpowered) and a Blackberry style Titan Pocket with a hardware keyboard and 4-inch screen.
Neither of these sound like what you want. In the Android world, one can only hope that another small-time OEM will swoop in to fill the gap, before inevitably disappearing.
Since pocketability is a large component of the size question, the foldable Motorola Android phone is worth taking looking at (if you can afford it). Unfolded it's modern-sized but folded up it fits in more places.
It's the other way around for me. Usability trumps everything. Trying to use my phone one-handed is extremely frustrating, even with a rear grip, and I have what is considered a "small" phone (Samsung Galaxy S10e).
I wish phones had thumb trackpads like BlackBerry phones had. The BlackBerry Classic (2014) had one and it worked incredibly well, even in Android apps, surprisingly (it works by moving the focus, not a mouse pointer, except in the browser, where the pointer means desktop mode is actually usable). Being able to reach the entire screen just by twitching your thumb a few millimetres is sadly probably never going to be possible again.
I used to use a Motorola phone I got off Amazon for like $200. It was great, but various factors have caused me to return to using an iPhone. Looking online a bit maybe it was the G7 plus?
My favorite "feature" of these Android phones is the price. It's like having insurance on your phone. If you lose or break it, it's not $1500 down the tubes.
> My favorite "feature" of these Android phones is the price
Honestly that's my favorite feature of iPhones too. I've always bought used iPhones 2-3 generations behind. And they're often supported for many years.
Current iPhone is 1st generation SE 2016, probably worth less than $80 and runs latest iOS.
I’ve usually bought 1-2 generations behind, often at the $250-400 price point, and then run them for 3-4 years or so. I just replaced the battery on my wife’s X and that looks like it’ll now go well past the 4 year mark.
Oh, I want this. I "upgraded" from an iPhone 8 to an iPhone 12 two years ago and dislike almost everything new about the 12 -- the size (too large), FaceID (never as reliable as pressing the fingerprint button was). iPhone 8, but faster and with better battery life? Lovely.
I have the 2016 SE, and I love it. Hate FaceID, hate the idea of FaceID. I don't use the fingerprint ID either. I don't even lock the phone.
I really like the home button, and I was scared they were going to drop it. Glad it made the cut at least one more time.
If I can't have my Blackberry Bold back, I'll take this. I tried the bigger iPhone 7 Plus to see if the larger screen helped with the crappy screen keyboard, but it didn't, so I'd rather have the smaller device.
I was a huge touchID fan until my finger skin started cracking. Then I had to use tricks like resetting touchID quarterly and taking touchID scans of soaked (but dry) hands so I could use actually unlock my phone consistently. FaceID is more consistent even with masks (using watch unlock).
It's too bad they don't sell a larger version - I'd consider going back.
Was it too difficult to revert to using a normal passcode? Genuine question; I too am a fan of touch ID. I’d get annoyed to have to update it constantly.
I tried an iPhone 12 for two weeks and then went back to my old Pixel 2 - it was a nice phone with a great camera, but nothing wowed me. And I missed my fingerprint sensor.
I then bought a secondhand iPhone SE (2020) and could not be happier. It does everything I need. Love Touch ID. The only thing that’d make it better is a headphone jack to plug my Shures into.
Obviously "chonky" is about as subjective a descriptor as they come but as someone who held onto the original SE until the minis came out, I really don't feel like my 12 mini is significantly larger than the original SE. I really like the sharp edges better than the rounded ones on the 6S/7/8/SE2
I wish they just include a modern Touch ID in their latest phones that's what keeps me away from the latest and almost greatest. Love to have a better camera but it's Touch ID or nothing!
I bought the X and loathed the unlock UX especially if you ever might need to use your phone in the car.
It’s the same chassis design as the previous SE, which was the same as the 8. They are probably not using older inventory but likely using existing tooling and processes, which likely saves a significant amount of money. If Foxconn/Pegatron/Wistron doesn’t have to retrain people and/or build new tools, they can do the work for cheaper.
Still not small enough. The 1st gen SE was perfect in size and easy to grip. The iPhone 13 mini is smaller but still easily falls out of my hand if I'm not paying attention. Alas, we live in the age of phablets.
There is no market for small smartphones. The mini line has consistently underperformed, and may get cancelled completely in the next refresh. People who complain about large screens online are unfortunately a vocal minority.
I'm afraid you're correct about it underperforming, but as an owner of an iphone 13 mini i can only say i'm very happy with it. As long as there is a mini available, i will not switch to a larger model.
No, "they" didn't. An iPhone 13 mini was rumored ten days before the iPhone 12 was revealed [1] (see also in that same rumor the 2022 SE 3 launch). There were rumors through out following year that Apple was still going to have 13 mini even with poor sales of the 12 mini [2].
The same people are saying that the mini is toast for the iPhone 14. It's gone. Maybe Tim Cook will do his Tim Cook thing and reuse the mini form factor as the next SE for the next half decade, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I actually don't recall any popular opinions that there wouldn't be a 13 mini. Info I had seen over the whole span of the 12 indicated that the 13 mini was too far along to kill, and the 14 was going to get canned.
Yeah, I had a 7 and held on to it for a while hoping a smaller form factor would come out. Then when the original SE launched in 2020 I just gave up hope on a small phone and bought it since my 7 was dying. A few months later the Mini came out, which was annoying timing. I'd be interested in the Mini, but I generally keep my phones at least a few years.
iPhone 4 was my favorite form factor. I just want something I can use with one hand.
I felt a little cheated when they launched the nini after the 2020 SE. I’m still using my 2020 SE and will probably update in the next year but I’m not sure whether I’ll go for the 2022 SE or the mini. The cost of the SE and the Touch ID are very strong selling points, but the size of the mini and the squared sides are also appealing. I am hoping they’ll make an SE-mini hybrid but I’m not holding my breath.
Yeah, you're right, I guess I meant in this form factor. The first to use the SE name was definitely back in 2016 with that other 5S design. Thanks for recalling that!
Yeah that's an interesting problem, if people refuse to buy/upgrade to newer phones because they're too big, it might be hard to see there's a market for smaller phones.
The mini is smaller than the 6. Size-wise the mini is midway between the 5 and the 6. The 6 is too large for me for one-handed use, whereas the mini is (barely) okay.
That's not really true. If people want a 4" phone and you only give an option of 6" or 6.5", them picking one of the other here doesn't prove they don't want an actual small phone.
I think it's true based on other evidence, but this on it's own isn't conclusive.
"No market" = 5 million 12 Mini's sold. Not huge for iPhone but is way more than they sell of iMacs, Mac Pros, 16" MBP. Maybe they just need to up the profit margins. I'd gladly pay "Pro" or more prices for a mini phone.
Storing phones in bags don't help with the phone being too big to hold.
(Incidentally, not all women store phones in bags; but then I used to see men storing phones on those things that clip into your belt too… probably not within the last few years though. Also, you're not storing _anything_ in women's pockets; they're mostly decorative.)
Now, on the serious side, this is ignorant and sexist comment. It is sexist because it focuses on gender-biased fashion, emphasizing social gender inequality. It is ignorant because it does not take into account that women are usually physically smaller than men and they have smaller hands. They need a smaller device to have the same user experience as men, not because they want to carry it in their pockets (though surely they want it too).
All of the women in my life that I can think of have larger phones, often the plus sized models. They tend to use some form of a popsocket to make it manageable.
This could very well be the reality of the phone market for women without trying to unmask anyone making the observation as sexist. Seems like you read their comment as a prescription of how things ought to be.
I'm not sure what the fuss is about though. The people doing the market research have decided offer two small options in the current iPhone generation, so there's clearly a market for it whether that's women driving that market or not. There are all sorts of reasons anyone might want a smaller phone. I own a 13 mini myself and I'm a big guy.
Nah. Lots of people I know have the a 2020 iPhone SE - both for its size and more importantly for the fingerprint reader. I have one and love it. I would consider the 13 mini - but I prefer fingerprint vs faceid.
This iPhone SE 2020 (and this new one) both have a smaller screen than the 12/13 mini. The mini line underperformed because it was in direct competition with the SE, not because people didn't want small screen. If that was the case, they wouldn't buy the SE either. You can see this very well in the sales share by model from this article: https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/15/iphone-12-line-accounted-for-....
Gets into interesting user design and accessibility topics.
I have no idea what Apple did in this direction, but whenever I hear "no market for small phones," I think of the women in my life with small hands who bring up the lack of options voluntarily when phone size is discussed (especially when an older iphone SE that's small is seen).
Of course there is a market. Selling millions of devices proves that, no matter if that's considered "underperforming" when compared to the sales of larger smartphones.
But they didn’t make it with the top of the line camera.
They should make an iPhone 5 sized iPhone 13 pro and sell it for $1500 and it will sell but, but unfortunately it will suffer from battery life issues so is impossible. The advantage of larger phones is the larger batteries which allows Apple to make slim phones that last all day
It's a little bigger, but thinner, right? I also went 1st gen SE for 5 years, and am hoping my 13 mini lasts 5 as well (with a battery replacement at some point), but I drop this phone way more than my SE. I think the edges are slipperier.
Yes at 7.3mm the 8 design reused by the SE2 and 3 is quite a bit thinner than the SE’s 7.6mm, though it’s at least a blessing they used the 8’s shell because the 6 to 7 shell was only 7.1.
The XR and 11 went way up to 8.3, but then the 12 went back down to 7.4, and the 13 back up a notch to 7.65.
IME it’s not just that the edges are slipperier (though they are), it’s also that the rounded edges offer way less secure a grip than the flat edges of the 5S shell. And the phone is bigger and less well balanced, so holding it single-handed it always teeters on the edge.
I currently have an 11, which replaced a 6S. I’d not seen they’d thinned the phones again so I’m quite dismayed, the 6S was an absolute horror show which I kept dropping. The 11 is significantly better, though I still drop it way more than I’m comfortable with.
I miss the 4S design. Not only do I still think it better looking, it was more safer, and easier to use: picking the 6S from a table was an exercise in frustration. The 11 is better, but it’s not great. The 4S was easy, you just… gripped it. You didn’t have to claw your fingers under so it didn’t slip.
Also not as compelling for watching video, aka more ads.
Current phone: SE 2020, purchased second hand last summer
Previous: SE 2016, purchased second hand fall 2017
Delighted to see this one hit the scene; would have been happier if it were in the 5/SE 2016 form factor, but satisfied with the internals. I’m looking forward to getting one in about two years.
I still use a 6S and was wanting to get an SE, but was worried about the 5G thing. This is such welcome news. My mom has an SE (not sure what year) and it is really nice.
My 6S has held up really well. My boyfriend and I lived at campgrounds for the spring/summer of 2021 and during all this, I would use my phone's hotspot as a mobile router for my laptop/ps4, and had it plugged into a portable power bank all day, and that really killed my battery. Not a good idea. A bit of a non-standard use. While my battery life is quite terrible, it never ceases to amaze me that it is still so usable, that it still gets updates, and it's not terribly laggy (it is better compared to my boyfriend's LG Stylo 4 which he got in 2020 and is kind of a mess despite being a beast; tbf he's lost that thing 3x and it's survived things no phone should). I carry a small battery bank with me if I will be out for more than a couple hours so I am not without a phone, but I know it is a bit silly. I've considered switching to android because of cheaper options, but the longevity thing really has me thinking I want to stay with apple. I will miss the headphone jack, though.
As far as I know the SE doesn't/didn't do 5G? I was looking into getting one but the lack of 5G is why I remember thinking it wouldn't be a good choice.
It's the same thickness so who knows if the battery has more capacity. I would think it's more likely that going from A13 7nm to A15 5nm chip nets ~20% battery
So it turns out "the phone has a physically larger battery — a fact about the new iPhone SE that the company confirmed on background in a group briefing with reporters." When teardowns are published we can see exact mAh.
I've been using my iPhone 5 since 2013. I get comments every single day from people who absolutely love it and want to know what model it is. I'm convinced it's the single best product Apple has ever made. Until another true 4 inch screen iPhone exists, this will be it for me.
My youngest daughter has the original iPhone SE which is the same form factor as the iPhone 5 but runs the latest iOS. This is perfect for her since she's only 11 and this is the only phone that can fit into her pockets. Some of her friends have comically large Android phones!
You must have a lot of trouble buying anything, since I assume you apply your principles consistently? Clothing manufactured in countries that overlook child labor, chemicals / metals in your electronic devices coming from dictatorships, oil in your car coming from environmentally devastated areas?
Virtuous choices are still virtuous, even when one chooses them inconsistently.
Due to globalization, there are few 100% moral products. When I'm making a purchase, I usually spend some energy investigating the morality of different options. I have limited energy and funds. It's always a tradeoff between research time, product cost, product quality, and product availability. I put more energy into big-impact things like housing, transportation, electronics, job, etc.
You judged me and wrote that I'm inconsistent. When you wrote your comment, I think you were experiencing a self-righteous feeling. You probably enjoyed that feeling. Pay attention to that. It's not the same as happiness or satisfaction. The self-righteous feeling doesn't help you. It enables small human groups to expel or punish rule-breakers. When a human feels self-righteousness, they stop thinking clearly. Similar behavior happens with anger & fear. When a person feel self-righteousness, they blindly follow their leaders and shun/attack/kill the accused. Personally, I think self-righteousness has little place in modern society.
We definitely need laws that require companies to display this information online as well so that ethical shoppers aren't forced to go to the stores to avoid Made in China products.
If there any confirmation on if this new version is compatible with no sim card? One of the things I enjoy about the pixel budget phones is that it's simless but I was thinking of switching.
The second-gen iPhone SE supports eSim - I use a SIM card for Verizon and then another carrier with eSim. I can have both active at once, make calls, etc. Uses more battery but is super practical.
Another mini iPhone with premium features, and still the Android ecosystem doesn't have a comparable size/features competitor although there are dozens of manufacturers.
samsung's s10e is only slightly bigger than the SE and its still a decent phone and has a fingerprint sensor on the side where god intended for it to be. wireless charging. lots of things you dont get on a lot of "premium" devices these days, sd card slot, headphone jack, extra programmable button.
sony's XZ1 compact is smaller than the SE and still works great, but i only use it as a music player so im not exactly doing anything that taxing.
phones plateaued for me a few years back so keep that in mind. all the new "features" that phones have these days dont really seem like anything i need
I still love my S10e! The battery is fading a bit now, but apart from that it's my perfect device - good size, fingerprint sensor on the side, headphone jack, SD card slot (I store my entire music collection on the SD card), and it just got upgraded to Android 12.
And according to Samsung, those three years of software updates should be running out this year. Meanwhile, Apple is doing double that on the S6: 6 years of updates.
I’ve sworn off Samsung after my first couple phones stopped getting any updates or any kind after they weren’t the current model. I’ve found it hard to forgive them.
True, but I don't mind. I'm happy getting a new phone with better cameras/battery/etc after two or three years. But kudos to Apple for their longevity - my daughter still has a 1st gen iPhone SE (nearly 6 years old) which is still running the latest iOS version, and performs perfectly for her needs.
Excellent! A worth successor to my iPhone 7.
I'm happy that they offer a model with only a single camera, as I was scared that I would eventually be forced to upgrade to a model with three cameras, which would be a complete waste for me.
This phone includes many user-hostile design choices. These show that Apple continues to put profit over UX and the environment. :(
- Glass on the back
- Missing no lip to protect the camera and screen when the phone is dropped or placed on on a surface with abrasive particles. Even worse, the camera and screen actually protrude from the case, increasing the chance of damage.
Glass on back is stupid trend. It's fragile and weighty. I suspect that they can't use metals due to Qi support but don't like plastics. I prefer plastics.
Who doesn't use a case? Especially with a $600+ device? Everything you mentioned are the same for the Galaxy phone I just replaced with an iPhone Mini 13.
Yeah I agree with you. I do sometimes wish that phones were made of ugly textured injection molded nylon or ABS so that we didn’t have to buy cases. Nobody needs a case to protect the finish on their power tools or their remote control or their key fob. But phones have to be pretty to sell so we get delicate shiny designs instead and basically everything needs a case by default.
So, to summarize: perfect size for one handed operation; Physical button is also a fingerprint reader (but i don't see the confirmation everywhere, only on some sites). No 3.5 jack (sigh).
I am still a very content user of 2nd gen SE. Thanks to the controversy with purposeful "slowing down" of aging phones, i was able to get a discounted battery replacement a few years back. So, my phone is holding up very well!
But if it does break - i guess I'll be getting this one instead of 'smallish' Pixel.
> vile shenanigans by Apple with slowing down of SEs purposefully
Wasn't this more a poor communication of performance throttling to preserve battery that affected all phones?
And haven't Google/Samsung/others(?) also been caught doing the same thing? I thought just this past week Samsung backpedaled a change to throttle apps for battery performance.
I'm asking more generally because this is my understanding and I'm sure if someone has better info they'll reply, but to me "vile shenanigans" is a bit much. They could have done a better job of communicating a feature with some negative impact, that seems to be a not-uncommon problem for them.
I replaced the screen of my last SE 4 times. Hard to beat when there are $25 replacement kits available. Not the case with the 12 mini I picked up recently - wish I would've held off for this new SE (granted I don't think we'll see cheapo replacement parts any time soon). Really prefer the smaller size and the headphone jack isn't a dealbreaker for me
I made the mistake of getting a midrange android phone after phones became over 1 grand AUD. Missed so many photos due to the 2 seconds it takes to open.
Ended up getting a $1500 phone again to get the >1 second camera opening speed, like my 5 year old flagship had.
Are apple's cheap phones fast with opening the camera app and then taking a photo?
Not very scientific test, just pressing start stop on the stop watch on Google with one hand and opening the photo app and taking a picture with the other a couple of times. On my iPhone SE 2nd gen, after some practise, I can get .5 to .75 seconds. When including unlocking the phone first, it's closer to 2s.
With that it's a bit over 1 sec. But timing is a bit odd, because it seems it has some delay between screen turning on automatically when picking up the phone and this gesture working. First swipe does nothing, second just moves the screen and bounces back without getting to the camera, third one works.
Now i feel like i could participate in some millennial version of a wild west quick draw shoot out :)
This updated SE model uses the exact same processor as the iPhone 13 Pro. So, it's fast. Even the old model was fast.
Apple doesn't really sell slow phones at any price point. What you trade off on for their cheaper phones is usually the "everything else" part of the equation.
You want the camera to open fast, and for that reason alone you should consider the iPhone 13, 13 mini, or 12. All of those phones have a dedicated button on the lock screen to open the camera, which I find easier than the swipe gesture on the iPhone SE and all iPhones in that form factor.
What you're missing out on with this SE is:
- For the most part the entire body is the iPhone 8
- It has a far inferior screen, it's the old LCD iPhone 8 screen, and it's the smallest phone screen Apple sells.
- It has older cameras/sensors. You mentioned needing a fast camera, and that means you use your cell phone camera a lot. Maybe that means you also want a good camera, and you'll get better cameras in the rest of Apple's lineup for not much more money in some cases.
- It has the worst battery life of any currently-sold iPhone, though it's been improved from the second generation. The physical battery size is smaller than more current iPhones, and there's no way around that.
- The base model storage level is 64GB.
It's for people who "just need a phone" and want an iPhone, I'd say the kind of people who have less than 2-4 hours of screen-on-time per day.
Still, I do think that someone who can spend a few more bucks should consider the iPhone 13, iPhone 13 mini, or iPhone 12. I'd skip the iPhone 12 mini because the 13 mini gives you extra battery life that I'd say it needs.
With all of those models you're going to get better cameras, better battery life, more screen real estate, OLED screens.
If you're really into taking photos, the iPhone 13 Pro really does have an amazing camera system. I didn't think it would blow away my iPhone 12 mini but it really does. You get what you pay for and the top-end is very good. If you're on a postpaid carrier and don't plan to leave for 2-3 years, you might as well take the subsidy and get a high-end phone.
Get the iPhone Mini, you won't regret it. I've used up 5 of the original SEs. The iPhone Mini's design is perfect and the actual SE in terms of usability. This SE has those round edges again which significantly lessens the grip.
reminds me of a feature I loved on my droid x. it had a dedicated physical button that would wake the phone and simultaneously open the camera app. inside the app, it would function as the shutter, so you didn't mess up the shot trying to tap on the screen.
I wish that had carried over to modern devices. I guess it's "too intimidating" to the user to have an extra physical button.
> I wish that had carried over to modern devices. I guess it's "too intimidating" to the user to have an extra physical button.
Physical buttons cost money and can break (which costs money if it happens during the warranty period), also they need i/o and wiring. Android devices are going to have the minimum number of physical buttons (which seems to be three right now), because there's not enough people who will buy a phone with a shutter button over a cheaper phone or a phone with better specs. Windows Phone (RIP) had a requirement for a shutter button, but had to drop it because the cost was too high.
Anyone who describes active voltage and frequency scaling in order to keep the cpu from crashing as “vile shenanigans” outs themselves as a person without worthwhile opinions on the topic.
The problem is that there was no notification to the user that the CPU was slowed down on purpose because the battery can no longer keep up, misleading them into thinking their device suddenly developed a mysterious fault and/or passive-aggressively annoying them into upgrading.
Your CPU is always, always locked into a closed-loop control system involving temperature and voltage. Always! The user cannot also be in the loop. If you want a turbo button you'll need to accept 486-level performance and battery life.
In practice, the behaviour of that loop is predictable and consistent, so people get used to it and calibrate their expectation of the phone’s performance on it.
The problem is that a couple years down the line when the battery degrades, that feedback loop adjusts and as a result that performance significantly deviates from what it was originally with no obvious way for the user to understand why or tell whether it even actually happened or if they’re just misremembering what the original performance was.
The user can be in the loop in a read-only way. If the control system suddenly makes dramatic & unexpected changes (to accommodate degraded power or thermal performance) the user should be notified so they can rectify the solution (replace the battery in this case). Apple would rather gaslight them into believing their phone is working fine and was just always this slow and it might be time for an upgrade.
Ok, yes - i remember them being fined and they did pay for my battery replacement; So, i assumed it was an admission of guilt.
But now after some googling, you have a point here; "vile shenanigans' is not a fair description (edited).
No, having a user serviceable battery is not a good reason to assume that a user will replace it. Because 90%+ will not, and did not in the days when it was industry standard.
Crashing the phone instead of throttling is a bad design choice no matter the serviceability of the battery. I had (and professionally supported) devices in the 00s that did this, and they were not good. People didn’t happily replace their battery and move on with their day, like you might imagine. They made support calls because their phone was constantly crashing and they had no idea why. But they made those calls on their office phone because their cell phone crashed when they tried to call me!
Then why not both? Throttle the performance of those who don't want to do it, but let people replace their phone's batteries if they want without throttling its performance.
Because products are designed for a target market, and all engineering decisions have multiple consequences.
It is normal for mass market products to intentionally remove or never include niche features so that they can better appeal to the broader target market.
> It is normal for mass market products to intentionally remove or never include niche features so that they can better appeal to the broader target market.
Except removable batteries were never a niche feature; most smartphones in the previous generation had removable batteries, and most smartphones today have it too, just glued instead to prevent users from removing them. Apple deliberately denied users that ability to ensure their reliance on its own repair services, and the rest of the industry followed with the same scammy tactic after seeing it getting tolerated by Apple's consumers.
Interesting to me to see how few upvotes this has gotten in one hour (10). Perhaps not so popular HN? Which is surprising, because I feel like before the relaunch many people complained it didn't exist and wanted it.
I'm not saying it as a joke, I've switched to a Samsung phone myself because it comes with USB-C and a headphone jack. I miss some Apple things like iMessage, but I just got so sick of carrying extra cables and dongles everywhere.
I don't know if it's a joke. My wife switched to Android to keep her 3.5mm. I'd be willing to switch to iOS if I get a decent 3.5mm option to upgrade my Pixel 3a from, especially since it looks like the 6a won't have one this year.
I myself will never buy a phone without a 3.5mm jack either. I have 3 pairs of headphones that all sound better than any wireless headphones I have tried. Together they cost less than any viable alternative sound quality wise.
I doubt apple will ever put a 3.5mm jack in, since they make too much money from the airpods.
I'd say so. In my experience, different carriers have been discounting/clearing out many of Apple's 4g models at pretty good prices over the last year.
Could the mods please consider grouping up all these announcement threads? We really don't need separate ones for every individual thing. Looking at the guidelines as well, these are more promotional and marketing in nature than something that "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."
The discussion around a big monitor with a processor powerful enough for ca. 2020 flagship iPhone is going to be a bit different than the discussion prompted by their phone for people who miss the 2013 flagship iPhone.
except for a 5-generations-newer chip, 5G, double the storage, display improvements, and 5+ years of software support
i'm not saying it's much of an improvement. but some of those old iphones are around the stagnation point of phone progress for the average user. the 5 year difference translates to ~half the launch price, with modernizations and future support.
it's a pretty good deal and upgrade for someone coming from an older iphone 7, who doesn't need a $1k "flagship". doesn't seem like a fault at all that it's not even more better. this isn't the spec phone
> - Physical button => still works better for unlocking than FaceTime (especially with a mask)
There are better ways of doing this than a button below the screen unnecessarily eating up space; e.g. having the fingerprint reader on the side, or the back, like literally any modern smartphone.
USB C isn't exactly everything it's cracked up to be. You can't exactly just grab any USB C cable and plug it into any USB C port and it works. I still need to keep that one USB C cable with thunderbolt and charging specifically for my laptop. Except now I have to label it or be careful with cable management.
I'd rather be able to just look at the connector and tell what it does rather than this silly game of "this USB C cable is fat, maybe I can use it to charge my laptop". USB C ports are harder to clean too.
I choose to look at it from a glass half-full perspective. any usbc cable is at least as good as a standard usb2 cable. anything past that is a bonus. it's mildly annoying that some cables support high wattage PD and some don't, but it sure beats carrying around two dedicated cables all the time.
but if it really bugs you that much, why not just find a cable that supports all the features you need, buy a few of those, and hide the rest? they're not that expensive...
You still can't tell the capabilities of the USB C port just by looking at it.
I don't buy the "saves a cable" argument. My laptop is all USB C (made sure all the ports had all the same capabilities) and now I need to carry a dongle everywhere if I want to remain compatible with the other screens that I need to use or if I want to use a wired keyboard or mouse. And a good dongle is not cheap.
Mostly what USB C does well, is if you are not an iPhone user, and ask someone for a charging cable. It will fit. I'd rather just carry my own cable than have spent that dongle money.
I think what they’re doing is super-smart: there is a giant section of the population that wants consistency over any other feature - my mom, 74, and her 5 siblings are always thrilled to have a phone that works exactly like their last phone; 54+ million people in the United States are over the age of 65. I don’t know if that plays in to their decisions, but it sure is appreciated.
Additionally, an A15 processor means this phone is going to stay solid and consistent for at least 5 more years. No issues with buying the cheaper phone and needing to replace it more often because the software phased it out faster.
On my iPhoneX I've had the touch screen get into a frozen state so many times and there is no way to unlock or dismiss apps. And then there's the face ID unlock issue when you're wearing a mask or not looking right at the screen... which is better solved with thumbprint unlock.
I get that you lose screen real estate with bringing back the home button but I think it's the right call.
I am not sure about iPhone X but I thought there was a new mode on the latest iOS that allows you to add a second Face ID unlock when wearing a mask? Its an additional setup you have to do I think?
They'll be back with the inevitable next major variant just like Delta and Omicron. Some countries always had enough mask usage to justify a feature like this.
Unless a new variant is more deadly, I'm not sure this is the case. Between vaccines, growing herd immunity, and new treatments, COVID is becoming less of a concern. Hospitalization rates for Omicron were already considerably lower than prior variants. In the near future, people not feeling well will be able to walk into their pharmacy, get tested, and walk home with pretty effective pills if positive.
No pandemic lasts forever. The diseases always become endemic and less deadly, with or without direct intervention.
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Here's everything released since 2015 that's SE size or smaller: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2015&nHeightM...
This SE, and the previous one, are significantly larger. The iPhone 13 Mini is closer to original SE size but still larger (around 8mm longer and 6mm wider).