Oh man, when Russia cut off twitter, my timeline cleaned up instantly. Check out the Trudeau post replies - not a single person calling him Hitler. That ended the day Russia cut off twitter. Basically all pro-Trucker content ended that day.
Except that Russia never actually cut off Twitter? It was throttled for a few hours at most, but never fully blocked. And even if they did cut it off, do you think they'd cut off the troll farms and their propaganda outlets too? Unless you are saying that normal russians are calling trudeau hitler with no state backing?
Your comment is a bit funny since you are forectly contradicting yourself. When you (wrongfully) thought that russians couldn't access twitter anymore, the russian bots just seemed to have... disappeared for you. But in reality, nothing changed, so maybe they weren't there to begin with, and this is a weird example of a placebo effect, lol.
Certainly, I didn't claim to have anything conclusive. I think it would be interesting to see some research and data. It's pretty much established that the Russians have been seeking to sow discord within Western democracies for years.
Or it could be the collapse of western democracy from the inside. After all, the alternative is a bunch of people genuinely believe for 3 weeks that Trudeau was Hitler because he waited 3 weeks, asked people nicely to stop unlawfully occupying the capital and stopping international commerce, then had the police move in and as peacefully and quietly as humanly possible, removed them. Last I checked, this is not the behavior our mustachioed friend was known for. So that would leave politics in a sad state indeed.
Your so-called take-down isn't the victory you think it is haha. Either I'm right, and we lost recently, you're right, and we lost a long time ago.
Invoking the modern equivalent (and direct descendant) of war measure laws over a protest is totally unprecedented in the recent history of the western world . Maybe the comparison to hitler were extreme but that's because the laws invoked were also extreme ;). Whether you agree with the government or not I think it's reasonable/normal that you'd see a very strong opposition to Trudeau without any foreign interference.
Sadly I think I agree with the last part of your comment. It's actually why I really dislike the "russian bots are everywhere" narrative, because it distracts or obscures from the real problems we actually have. I think it's a cop out to blame foreign interference for very real tensions and disagreements we have in our society. My point wasn't to attempt a take down or to win an argument, it was mostly to drive home the point that it's all maybe deeper than just russian trolls after all ;)
It is also unprecedented to occupy the capital and block international trade for three weeks, while making demands that couldn't be met (such as asking the federal government to override provincial restrictions). Over conspiracy theories about dead baby tissue and "graphene oxide" in vaccines. 2/3 of Canadians agreed with the use of this measure.
The restrictions in place were lawful and in keeping with the charter. Canada is a rule of law jurisdiction and judicial avenues existed for the resolution of these grievances. As did normal protests. I welcome normal protests, and I welcome the truckers to return to Ottawa and picket - without their trucks. Their goal though was to overturn the results of the last election - of a minority government they only have to wait an average of less than a year to see fall on its own.
I didn't vote for Trudeau last time, I won't vote for him next time, and I completely agree with his use.
> My point wasn't to attempt a take down or to win an argument, it was mostly to drive home the point that it's all maybe deeper than just russian trolls after all ;)
It might be, but it could also be normal disagreements that are having a wedge placed in them by foreign adversaries.
Or it could be completely unrelated. I am very open to that.
After last 4+ years with headlines of Russian influence/collusion and indictments/secret indictments/charges coming “any day now” (and nothing happening!)…
Sure. This time it really was the Russians. Because in the middle of the largest military intervention Russia had since the fall of the USSR they would devote resources and care about what happens in Ottawa.
It makes a lot of sense actually. Did you not see the result? Weeks of chaos and world attention. For the investment of a few bucks. The trucker campaign is also a replay of the Chilean trucker strikes.
I guess my question to you is: do you think a 16 year veteran of the KGB - a warmonger with a lust for the Soviet Union - and a vendetta against the west for brining it down, with total control over an enemy state is more likely to or not to be conducting destabilization campaigns in enemy states? I think a study would be interesting and I would be happy to hear either outcome. However, I strongly suspect there's nothing anyone would tell you that would change your mind one way or the other.
Before you answer, remember, he is currently trying to set fire to Europe's largest nuclear reactor.
Further, you seem to be alluding to American politics, I am not talking about America at all.
> do you think a 16 year veteran of the KGB - a warmonger with a lust for the Soviet Union - and a vendetta against the west for brining it down, with total control over an enemy state is more likely to or not to be conducting destabilization campaigns in enemy states?
I'm sure it was the KGB behind the thousands small amount donations from verifiable United States and Canadian citizens.
The Spetnaz are probably behind the bouncy castle and hot tub the protester brought! Look at these dangerous criminals! [0] [1]
> Further, you seem to be alluding to American politics, I am not talking about America at all.
And yet it’s the same tactics and media spin across the borders. "but this time it really is the Russians! Just trust us..."
Your sarcasm is as obnoxious as it is irrelevant. Of course the KGB no longer exists - it's the FSB now - I was referring to Putin's work experience. They need not be behind very specific instances to be responsible for sowing discontent in general and fostering division.
These are exactly the kinds of operations the KGB carried out during the cold war, and is a core part of Russian military doctrine to this day. [1] The fact is, if you refuse to accept that it's a possibility (even as I accept it may not have been) then the system works doesn't it.
The thing is, when it works, people don't realize they have been influenced and they flat out refuse to believe it could have been by a state actor. The only politicians people complain about at work are bad politicians - the good ones already convinced you their idea was right. Ditto here.
> And yet it’s the same tactics and media spin across the borders. "but this time it really is the Russians! Just trust us..."
What do you mean "this time?" The Russians have never come up in the context of Canadian politics in my recent memory. Not as far as I can recall. Can you, or are you projecting American politics again?
You know for all the pictures of bouncy castles, they also built a shack downtown and filled it with diesel and propane [2], were arrested with significant quantities of weapons [3] and also the leadership has ties with white supremacist organizations and white nationalists [4]. They pissed all over national monuments. [5] They stole food from homeless shelters. [6] And they fought people inside the Rideau Centre mall forcing it to close to protect workers. [7] All while blocking international commerce. This is just a choice few selections. Good riddance I say.
For the record, 2/3 of Canadians support the Trudeau government's use of the Act, and only 1/3 voted for him - so I'd say that's a heck of a broad base of support.
But go on. Tell me more about my people. You're not Canadian, are you?
> These are exactly the kinds of operations the KGB carried out during the cold war, and is a core part of Russian military doctrine to this day.
The Canadians feds were also notorious for planting bombs back in the 70’s and try to pin it down on political opponents.
> The Russians have never come up in the context of Canadian politics in my recent memory. Not as far as I can recall. Can you, or are you projecting American politics again?
Absolutely. 4 years of “the Russians have to be behind this” and nothing happening here in America. And then suddenly we start hearing the same thing from the (liberal) media over there. What a coincidence. Almost as if they tried everything to see what would stick!
> You know for all the pictures of bouncy castles, they also built a shack downtown and filled it with diesel and propane
How else were they supposed to fuel their trucks? The city could have offered to hook them to the power grid but they preferred the trucker bring fuel apparently.
> were arrested with significant quantities of weapons
Second amendment & Legal weapons. Notice no crimes were committed using said weapon and they refrained from answering the question whether these were legally owned.
> and also the leadership has ties with white supremacist organizations and white nationalists.
Are those organizations illegal? Or just not liked by the government and state media?
> For the record, 2/3 of Canadians support the Trudeau government's use of the Act
They had a vote on it?
> But go on. Tell me more about my people. You're not Canadian, are you?
Did happen same day though. Not proof, just signal. And it happened across a broad range of topics. I'll be the first to admit this is anecdotal. I would love a study.
