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Entirely anecdotal, but a lot of professional endurance sports athletes / ultra distance athletes are also high performing PhD candidates/professors/academics. It's kind of weird - if you watch the documentary about the Barkley Marathons, the winners are usually some kind of math/engineering PhD candidate.

Another anecdote - As a kid I was "hyperactive" and struggled a lot in school until my freshman year. Coincidentally, my problems of hyperactivity and poor grades both stopped at almost the exact time I started doing "competitive" endurance sports. I was just now diagnosed with ADHD as an adult in my mid twenties. My diagnosis probably took so long because I've been "self medicating" with exercise for the last ~10-15 years.

I definitely believe the results of this study and I've found them true in my own life. I've consistently used exercise as a reset from studying / working, and often attributed consistent exercise as a key to my productivity.




Not just anecdotal, see "Why Do Rich People Love Endurance Sports?" discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19016362

> I was just now diagnosed with ADHD as an adult in my mid twenties. My diagnosis probably took so long because I've been "self medicating" with exercise for the last ~10-15 years.

Also, Jesus. It's as if ADHD is a manufactured diagnosis to pathologize a healthy response to living conditions humans should find intolerable: sitting at a desk all day. I won't link to Born to Run, but it's easy to see that pre-industrial humans (i.e. 99% of the homo sapiens lifestyle) had lives full of physical activity. We call exercise "self-medication" when it is really a sick society that we should address.


> It's as if ADHD is a manufactured diagnosis to pathologize a healthy response to living conditions humans should find intolerable: sitting at a desk all day. I won't link to Born to Run, but it's easy to see that pre-industrial humans (i.e. 99% of the homo sapiens lifestyle) had lives full of physical activity. We call exercise "self-medication" when it is really a sick society that we should address.

I'd love for this to be true but all the evidence we have is that it is not true. I don't know if you're diagnosed with ADHD yourself or not, but as someone diagnosed with ADHD this sounds like a cool fantasy. I've also heard people say "well it's just cellphones and TikTok giving everyone ADHD, people just need to practice focusing". I grew up playing ~3 sports at any one time year round, with plenty of outdoor physical activity, running around the neighbourhood. I read books constantly, had very little access to computers, no access to cellphones. I also had terrible ADHD symptoms my whole life, and the only thing that helps reduce the symptoms effectively is medication. I have plenty of coping mechanisms that help but they are not preventative.

I would love not to take medication, as I'm generally averse to taking medication unnecessarily. It's the only thing that lets me choose to work on the things I want to work on, whether chores, listening to people, projects at my job or in my personal life.

The scientific evidence we have about ADHD is that it's highly heritable, that there are clear physical differences in size of certain parts of the brain in people with diagnosed ADHD, and that some children grow out of it as those parts of their brain catch up. It's one of the best examples we have of a disorder with clear physical causes, and the mechanism of the medications we have is also one of the best understood of all brain disorders. It's a dream to suggest it is just some hunter-mode human capability that modern society doesn't have a place for.

It sucks to have it and I wish I didn't, and that's because I want to be able to pay attention to the people I love when they talk to me, not because of some desire to be a perfect cog in a corporation that wouldn't exist in pre-industrial society.


Amen. Another documentary comes to mind: The Alpinist (on Amazon). It follows a Canadian climber who ‘solved’ his ADHD by becoming one of the world’s best mountain climbers. Funnily enough, his climbing style was smooth, controlled and relaxed. At a desk, he couldn’t sit still.


How often did he have to climb in order to sit still for a little while? Wondering if I need to exercise 5x a week now in order to concentrate.


The guy was living in a stairwell in a climbing town without a job, so I think "constantly" is a fair guess.


Reminds me of the fact that Alan Turing was a world class distance runner. He would sometimes run commute 40 miles for meetings.


Now that's a unique excuse when arriving late for meetings.


Actually, driving time probably has a much higher variation...


John Carmack is also heavily into Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu


Let's not exaggerate. Everybody has hobbies.


Having practiced submission wrestling and bjj for years - it is incredible strenous and requires conditioning to handle at all.

Judo, with it’s focus on grappling standing up is ridiculously hard on the body, and is not something you just pick up late in life and chill with. You’d break in all sorts of ways.

Carmack seems to have a serious interest, starting with wrestling in highschool.

> My wife for Christmas once got me a year of privates with Carlos Machado which put me up several levels. There was a period there where I’d have Judo with one of my coaches one day, then privates with Carlos the other day.”

https://bjjtribes.com/john-carmack-details-his-bjj-and-judo-...


That's about 1.5 marathons each way for a meeting?


Apparently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Cryptanalysis:

While working at Bletchley, Turing, who was a talented long-distance runner, occasionally ran the 40 miles (64 km) to London when he was needed for meetings, and he was capable of world-class marathon standards. Turing tried out for the 1948 British Olympic team, but he was hampered by an injury. His tryout time for the marathon was only 11 minutes slower than British silver medallist Thomas Richards' Olympic race time of 2 hours 35 minutes. He was Walton Athletic Club's best runner, a fact discovered when he passed the group while running alone. When asked why he ran so hard in training he replied:

I have such a stressful job that the only way I can get it out of my mind is by running hard; it’s the only way I can get some release.

That doesn’t say he ran back, to, though. Maybe call that a half-commute?

https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/Extras/Turing_running:

Alan Turing ran a little while he was at Sherbourne school, usually when football was cancelled because of bad weather. He did not run while an undergraduate at Cambridge, preferring to row, but once he had won his fellowship to King's College he began to run more seriously, his frequent route being from Cambridge to Ely and back, a distance of around 50 km. He did a little running while at Bletchley but only when he moved to the National Physical Laboratory did he take up running more seriously


Only if it’s Turing Complete.


Turing Compete?


you just won the internet :D


> professional endurance sports athletes / ultra distance athletes are also high performing PhD candidates

There are three ways to slice this fact, depends on who you ask. And I've asked a lot of people, because India treated "sports" as the refuge of those who cannot cut it in academics & I had two decades of people telling me to "quit running around, sit and study" which I had to unlearn in my 30s.

First is that thinking is not just limited by the "hardware" / displacement of your brain engine, but the consumable for doing it - that when I go for a walk and kick up my heart to 130 bpm, my brain is getting the equivalent of a turbo boost (literally, more oxygen to burn). The same applies to the glucose out of the liver, where a runner trains to feel the second wind coming even when the thing burning through glucose is their brain. And I've found that I can burn through a lot playing chess - heart-rates up by +30, extremities go cold and hunger stops when I'm thinking hard (or losing). Lower your heart-rate sitting still, the more boost you can push when needed.

But there's also a problem with selection bias.

Second is that running or endurance sports is not entirely physical. Nobody is chasing you to run, you are running on pure internal motivation & that selects for people who are good at staying on a chase. The mindset needed to keep running 10+ miles is basically why we tell people "this is marathon, not a sprint" when it comes to putting in time into something new. Because the mindset is about pacing, not absolute pace (the swimming scene in Gattaca comes to mind). I think this is selected for but like muscles it grows with use; you can evolve your mindset closer to being a persistence predator of ideas, beyond boredom.

Third is that the resources needed to be an amazing endurance runner and a PhD candidate are correlated - you need to focus away from paying the bills and work on doing something which has a slow burn with a very delayed reward. You need a healthy childhood, you need time to go running and you need a culture which values physical fitness as either a military tool (the himalayan hikes I went to were full of israelis in their 20s) or social status symbol (a somewhat post-scarcity economy).

I can't run as fast or in competitive fashion, a half marathon is my distance of choice, but I running for the first two reasons and can keep doing it for the third.


Purely anecdotal again. I had absolutely no concentration to write code about 5 years back. I treaded mostly a solutions engineer path since it was the most comfortable option. Somehow stumbled into running and my career path changed. Now I wouldn't say I am a genius programmer but I am certainly much better at design and coding. Running and lifting weights, surprisingly have resulted in me aspiring for coding tasks that take me to mental exhaustion. Some of the best days I've had are when I am mentally exhausted trying to figure out a solution and just fall asleep at my desk.


The “hyper” in hyperactive seems to suffer from a bias as to where to set the threshold. Given the kinetic energy of school-aged boys, I’m not surprised that a lot of them are diagnosed as such. Granted that a great many deserve the diagnosis, and I have direct experience with this. High/energy “recess” multiple times a day would seem to a good approach to help deal with it.


there's something about walking that also lives in the abstract world of ideas *you walk through a partially lit map of unknowns and ideas) ? that and increased blood flow to your head ? maybe hunting was the original and only problem solving instance that caused CNS to develop.




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