I'm a few years out of grad school, working at a tech company, and single. I came from an academic background where talking about interesting ideas and concepts was the norm. I had a pretty uncommon career path into tech and I'm not some coder.
My experience is that when you're in my position, it's getting harder and harder (with age) to find people who are interested in talking about ideas, entertaining the curiosities in life without some agenda/getting offended by the controversial ones, talking about possibilities and concepts (rather than objects). Like having conversations on advanced mode with people who are similar.
Often times at parties, when I get bored, I think of a quote, "Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events/things. Small minds discuss wine."
It's getting more and more common that I find people just wanting to talk about wine. Or the equivalent. Stuff that's completely forgettable after you leave the party. I mean that stuff is fine, and there's nothing wrong with talking about good food you've had, some articles you've read, movies seen, etc. too. And to be funny and engaging while talking about it. It just feels like... after you're done talking about that, what then?
Or if I do meet people who are intellectually interesting, how to get more connected or where to take it after a chance meeting and pleasant chat?
That said, what do I have to offer at this stage of my life either, to a stranger? I'm unmarried, so I don't have kids or the mortgage to talk about. I'm not a CEO or someone powerful. Also I'm single -- what are people supposed do with that? Don't have a lot of great reasons for anyone to want to go out of their way to spend more time with me after even an interesting 30 min conversation, without some other excuse.
We're not all living close together in shared housing to make intellectually stimulating conversations natural and prolonged. People have their lives to lead, not sit around talking about theoretical ideas. To contact the few people I've found who are interesting would be... how? "Would you like to schedule a get-together again for a conversation date?"
It's not going to get easier either. Probably in a few years I'll be the really odd guy. Eh, it's a life choice I've made, I realize that too -- to be more interested in ideas and experiences than say... people.
I figure I'd better find some interesting hobbies to make up for the lack of intellectual stimulation. But deeper, what am I working towards? For whom? So, sometimes I think of changing jobs just to see more of the world and gather experiences to be able to have more intellectually stimulating conversations. Learn about VC? Hear about more companies? Where/how?
Yeah, it's a bit of a problem sometimes to ponder.
That's what I miss about college. A friend of mine at Caltech would regularly have chicken wing night at his apartment a few steps from campus. All were invited, and as his chicken wings were to die for, it would be well attended.
The owner of the apartment building, an older fellow, would also come by. He'd just sit quietly in a corner, munching on chicken wings. After a few times of this, I asked him, why are you coming here hanging out with people 30 years younger? Don't you find us boring?
He said no, no. This is fascinating! Nowhere else have I encountered people who talk about the things you guys do. I just marvel at it!
> "Would you like to schedule a get-together again for a conversation date?"
Sounds pretty good - try it! The person you were talking to may feel exactly the same way.
And interesting hobbies? Definitely yes. Try getting into playing an instrument for example. If you like it, it will keep you busy the rest of your life if you want.
> But deeper, what am I working towards? For whom?
If I get to feeling like this, I like to think about my 2 cats. I love having them, they obviously love being around me, because they are within sight most of the time. But what is their purpose for existence? Do we all need a purpose for existence, or is the fact that we do exist good enough? Speaking of pets, that's another great thing to try out. Having something else living with you takes you out of your head.
We are human beings, not human doings. If you feel like doing something, great. If not, just ... be.
I think most people in this thread misunderstood the meaning behind the post (or maybe I did). This isn't about one's superiority, it's about the fact that there aren't enough people interested in talking about ideas.
People here said that someone like that would get bored if others picked the wrong topics. I don't think so. Even when I don't have a direct interest in a topic, I'm always open to learning more. But as you said, and I think this is what the article meant, many people do not have the habit of intellectual discussion. Yes, they are able to communicate, but their interests are shallow.
There was an argument here about how there's no difference between citing Plato and knowing everything about Manchester United (I think this is what MU meant). It depends. If you are only citing Plato because this is what you were taught, then there is no difference. It's a big difference if you cite Plato when you're trying to figure out why something is the way it is and you find out he had similar interests and ideas about it. The key isn't the imitation itself, but the reason why it's done. Otherwise, it's just another cargo cult.
I don't know if it's laziness of mind, cheap dopamine or something else, but it's rare to meet someone with real interests, one who's passionate about struggling with ideas, playing with them, discussing them.
I'm no big sports fan. And if a bunch of friends start talking about the whatever last second play in yesterday's game or the player stats, trades, etc. I'm pretty tuned out. I will never remember the people or players and what they did in that game that seemed so amazing to others.
But if one person starts talking about how the business of a sports franchise works, who makes money and who doesn't, the operating costs of a team, and the dynamics between owners and players, I'm all ears.
Maybe I just want to understand how the more complicated things work. It's not that interesting to talk about how he slid into home and nearly got tagged out.
There can be a reasonable level of nuance and detail in many sports (if not most sports conversations!)
But most people don’t care about the why’s or the how’s on or off the field, and mainly just want to brag about their team (or complain if their team is bad.)
I'm also a few years out of grad school and weird in a few ways in STEM circles.
I wonder how much of this is age related and how much of it is that people just have less mental room for intellectual endeavors than they used to? I was raised by what I would consider 'engaged citizens': Neither of my parents had college degrees or 'fancy' jobs (my dad's white collar semi-professional accounting gig was the top of the line for my family), and they followed ideas. We discussed news articles, stuff in science magazines and online, etc. One topic my dad (60s) and I keep returning to is that the world requires way more of his brain power than it did 30 years ago.
It's less and less feasible to maintain an interest in ideas if you aren't folded into a profession or career that lets you combine your interest with your work.
Take the difference in single versus dual income households, for example. I have lots of time for ideas because I've got someone doing the household chores. (And likewise, my sister has a lot of time for HER hobbies because I'm breadwinning for us). Now throw that on top of the pile with everybody outside of tech feeling like their employment is precarious, inflation, the pandemic, and general social instability, and I wouldn't be shocked if people just don't have the bandwidth.
I just got out of legally enforced poverty in 2019 and the difference not being in survival mode made to my ability to have intellectual interests and conversations is IMMENSE.
> That said, what do I have to offer at this stage of my life either, to a stranger? I'm unmarried, so I don't have kids or the mortgage to talk about. I'm not a CEO or someone powerful. Also I'm single -- what are people supposed do with that?
Uh, you're single? That's amazing! The world is your oyster! If you think you're boring now, just wait until you're a cleaning, feeding, peek-a-booing family machine.
But why waste time discussing politics, climate change, etc. when we can't change anything anyway?
Isn't it better to discuss wine and food and holidays and enjoy the little time we have together? Isn't that actually the most intelligent thing to do?
Wine itself is worthy of deep intellectual discussion, relating to a huge breadth of specialized knowledge: chemistry, biology, social sciences, logistics, engineering, agriculture and so on.
And sure, discussing wine can be posturing. It can also serve as a simple topic to establish social connection for people who are otherwise not entirely comfortable.
From there you can ask questions about what people care about, what they are afraid of, what they love, what they would do in a world without wine, experienced they have had or how they would act in a difficult hypothetical situation.
Ideas, experiences and people don’t have to be entirely discrete things.
One way to increase the number of conversations like this is to say yes to other people’s line of thought. I learned about “yes, and” in an improv class. Have fun with the idea, build it, explore it… try not to shoot it down or debate it. It’s fun to hang out with people who riff on an idea.
You absolutely set a date for intellectual conversation, and foster a network of relationships with just intellectual people. I have a whole host of friends who I basically only see for this. I wouldn't hesitate to invite them to a party to chat about wine either though. The reality is intellectual ideation as an activity uses your mouth and you make word sounds but is not a typical human activity that just comes up in conversation unless you force it. It's like wanting to always drive around in an formula 1 car or use a fighter jet to get the groceries.
As a soon-to-be PhD, and at the risk of sounding arrogant, I think this is one of the major hidden costs of grad school: the tendency to constantly overintellectualize stuff, and a reduced empathic capacity for the lay person.
Most people are implantation people, not academics, so that’s what you’ll usually meet. Speaking from the point of view of implementation, it’s hard to engage with academics who want to discuss objectively impossible flights of fancy. But it can be really neat to find the intersection of academic interests that are borderline implementable.
Some would call it narrow mindedness, some would call it focus.
If you miss shared housing, why did you move out of it ? I've tried living alone in my early college days, that was probably a good experience (even though made me kind of waste a few years), I don't think that I would ever do that again...
At least you have some conversations on HN with others. Let's hope the replies are not just created by AI :) Conferences are nice times to meet and discuss with like-minded, pity Covid took that away (virtual doesn't work as well)
> "Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events/things. Small minds discuss wine."
To counter with a more famous quote: "in vino veritas."
A conversation's quality is the product of each participant's contributions, so perhaps there are ways you can enliven or guide the conversation to improve the experience for everyone. (Chances are you aren't the only person secretly thinking it's dull.)
> there's nothing wrong with talking about good food you've had, some articles you've read, movies seen, etc. too. And to be funny and engaging while talking about it. It just feels like... after you're done talking about that, what then?
Next you can use those shared topics to move beyond the what to the why, from facts to opinions, and from those to deep truths about ourselves and our world.
"Oh cool you liked Batman v Superman? I couldn't see past the explosions, what did you like about it that I must've missed?"
"Well the way the villain pitted the two heroes against each other reminded me of how when I was younger…"
or
"Well the scene where Superman gets nuked in orbit but then revives from the sun made me wonder about how radiation…"
One should be genuinely curious as well as kind, because unlike sharing facts, sharing opinions or questions inherently creates vulnerability. You might've been getting at this, but in today's political powder keg, (fear of) visceral reactions to unorthodox opinions, facts, and even word choice impose significant barriers to reaching that next level of intimacy where you can share feelings and half-formed opinions. Still, it's not impossible to create that environment quickly, it just takes skill and the understanding that sometimes the immediate conditions just aren't right.
> sometimes I think of changing jobs just to see more of the world and gather experiences to be able to have more intellectually stimulating conversations. Learn about VC? Hear about more companies?
Not to write off an entire profession, but I doubt venture capitalists can hold a candle to journalists when it comes to interesting experiences or conversations. I had far more interesting stories to tell when I worked in retail than when I worked in tech. Perhaps status is getting conflated with "having good conversations at parties" a little bit here.
My experience is that when you're in my position, it's getting harder and harder (with age) to find people who are interested in talking about ideas, entertaining the curiosities in life without some agenda/getting offended by the controversial ones, talking about possibilities and concepts (rather than objects). Like having conversations on advanced mode with people who are similar.
Often times at parties, when I get bored, I think of a quote, "Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events/things. Small minds discuss wine."
It's getting more and more common that I find people just wanting to talk about wine. Or the equivalent. Stuff that's completely forgettable after you leave the party. I mean that stuff is fine, and there's nothing wrong with talking about good food you've had, some articles you've read, movies seen, etc. too. And to be funny and engaging while talking about it. It just feels like... after you're done talking about that, what then?
Or if I do meet people who are intellectually interesting, how to get more connected or where to take it after a chance meeting and pleasant chat?
That said, what do I have to offer at this stage of my life either, to a stranger? I'm unmarried, so I don't have kids or the mortgage to talk about. I'm not a CEO or someone powerful. Also I'm single -- what are people supposed do with that? Don't have a lot of great reasons for anyone to want to go out of their way to spend more time with me after even an interesting 30 min conversation, without some other excuse.
We're not all living close together in shared housing to make intellectually stimulating conversations natural and prolonged. People have their lives to lead, not sit around talking about theoretical ideas. To contact the few people I've found who are interesting would be... how? "Would you like to schedule a get-together again for a conversation date?"
It's not going to get easier either. Probably in a few years I'll be the really odd guy. Eh, it's a life choice I've made, I realize that too -- to be more interested in ideas and experiences than say... people.
I figure I'd better find some interesting hobbies to make up for the lack of intellectual stimulation. But deeper, what am I working towards? For whom? So, sometimes I think of changing jobs just to see more of the world and gather experiences to be able to have more intellectually stimulating conversations. Learn about VC? Hear about more companies? Where/how?
Yeah, it's a bit of a problem sometimes to ponder.