I'm sorry but if a designer spends 8 to 10 hours doing design in an agencie is of no consequence to the point we're discussing. Wether they do or do not code their own designs, is not the point. The point is that they should be able to.
I agree that there are designers, and there are designers [insert vocal stress where appropriate], but we're talking specifics (WEB designers) here. They don't need to know how to program or even animate something with jQuery. But they do need to know the inner workings of floats, the box model, browser quirks, etc... You've said it yourself: "based on their experience using the medium". If you're at a point where you can really design for the web, having in mind standards, browsers, usability, accessibility, and best practices, you can most definitely write your own html and css. A web designer's medium is the "web page", and while no is asking a designer to create a Facebook, Stack Overflow, or Hacker News, we ask that they actually deliver a "web page" not just a psd that might very well not work with the current state of the web.
Your last point I fully agree with and I think I mentioned something like it in my previous post. I'd rather work with a highly talented graphic designer and show him/her how to be a "web" designer, than work with someone that might know both things but isn't as good. But on the other side of the coin, I'd rather work with a decent (read: good) web designer who can code, than with a great designer that refuses to actually study web design because he thinks he's over having to learn complementary skills.
Once again, we're asking the designers to learn to code their own markup and css, NOT to learn to program (both might be 'code', but they're completely different disciplines). We want graphic designers to keep doing design and deliver 'graphics' and we need web designers to be specialized graphic designers that deliver 'webpages'. We'll leave the real programming to the engineers and developers in the process, since that burden should not go on the designers shoulders.
Please, try to understand that there are different kinds of people, intelligences, sensibilities and talents, and that what's easy and simple for someone, might be hell for someone else.
Some professionals might do a more than excellent job if they focus and pair with a developer, instead of trying to be something they are not. ;)
Some others instead, might become better professionals by learning how to code. Different people, different skills, and they can both work on the web very efficiently in both small and big teams. :)
I love the attitude you express in the third paragraph. We need way more people willing to teach and support others understanding them. :)
I agree that there are designers, and there are designers [insert vocal stress where appropriate], but we're talking specifics (WEB designers) here. They don't need to know how to program or even animate something with jQuery. But they do need to know the inner workings of floats, the box model, browser quirks, etc... You've said it yourself: "based on their experience using the medium". If you're at a point where you can really design for the web, having in mind standards, browsers, usability, accessibility, and best practices, you can most definitely write your own html and css. A web designer's medium is the "web page", and while no is asking a designer to create a Facebook, Stack Overflow, or Hacker News, we ask that they actually deliver a "web page" not just a psd that might very well not work with the current state of the web.
Your last point I fully agree with and I think I mentioned something like it in my previous post. I'd rather work with a highly talented graphic designer and show him/her how to be a "web" designer, than work with someone that might know both things but isn't as good. But on the other side of the coin, I'd rather work with a decent (read: good) web designer who can code, than with a great designer that refuses to actually study web design because he thinks he's over having to learn complementary skills.
Once again, we're asking the designers to learn to code their own markup and css, NOT to learn to program (both might be 'code', but they're completely different disciplines). We want graphic designers to keep doing design and deliver 'graphics' and we need web designers to be specialized graphic designers that deliver 'webpages'. We'll leave the real programming to the engineers and developers in the process, since that burden should not go on the designers shoulders.