I've been using a Dual core Atom Netbook as my portable computer for 3 years. 120GB SSD, 9 Cell Battery, 2GB RAM.
Total Price: $450.
Granted, not sexy looking at all. Not particularly thin.
Runs Windows 7 Ultimate like a champ. The only time the low processing power ever bothers me is when I'm unzipping large files.
It's cheap, made of plastic and plastered with stickers. I carry it in my man purse, and bounce it around with me pretty much everywhere I go. I've been doing that for years.
Everything is backed up to DropBox. It's so cheap as to be disposable. If it breaks, I don't care. I'll buy a new one. I have a full set of USB / Network, VGA ports, and I don't have to worry about buying extra dongles to connect things to a projector. The little brute has been stable as a rock. I can't remember a single crash in 3 years.
It has enough battery life for me to be able to Code from Barcelona to SFO on one charge, and I typically charge the little beast about once or twice a week.
My bad. It was a 60 GB SSD. And, truth be told, it was a crap SSD when I bought it, and it doesn't support TRIM commands. I'm shocked it's been so stable. I did do the suggested SSD tweaks to the registry when I installed the OS.
I recently bought a 120GB SSD for a server I'm building, and I've had 120GB on the brain. Sorry.
Meanwhile, my main system is an Apple laptop which is not much older ... and my OS is now two versions out of date, since Apple stopped supporting it. The set of software I can run on it is becoming more and more limited, as more developers give up supporting my terribly antiquated operating system and hardware, and move on to the current thing.
This is the third time this has happened to me.
I don't care if PC makers can or cannot keep up with Apple. All I know is, this is my last Apple.
and my OS is now two versions out of date, since Apple stopped supporting it.
No machine that shipped with Leopard is unable to run Lion. Only the Mac Mini 1,1 and MacBook 1,1 from early 2006 with 32bit processors are unsupported.
Still, I started waaaaaay back with the Mac Plus, multiple Performas, a 4400/200, etc.; the 68k -> PPC, 8.6 -> OS X, and PPC750 -> Intel switches have all forced me to upgrade before I wanted to. Given Apple's history, I'm absolutely certain that they'll be switching their Air, at the very least, to their new A-series processors and/or IOS. I'm simply tired of the forced-upgrade cycle.
I've also had this conversation on HN a couple times. It often ends in multiple people expressing surprise that I'd be interested in continuing to use such old, out-of-date hardware, or that I'd even expect to be able to. I'm not going to have that conversation again.
"Looks like it was discontinued in 2006 (?), but introduced back in 2004 -- so, older than I thought."
Your laptop is 5 to 7 years old - do you realize how long that is in tech years? I am not sure you can run the latest Windows OS well on a 5 - 7 year old laptop.
"Intel switches have all forced me to upgrade before I wanted to."
The switch to Intel processors was very gradual and not painful at all. Apple kept PPC support for many years.
Why are you against the upgrades? If it is because of the cost associated with upgrading that is understandable. But the tech industry moves so fast and computer performance increases every year - do you really want to be using 5 - 7 year old technology?
"I've also had this conversation on HN a couple times. It often ends in multiple people expressing surprise that I'd be interested in continuing to use such old, out-of-date hardware"
Time to listen to the crowd my friend.
You CAN still use your computer to access email, write, browse, communicate, play, etc. But you can't complain when it doesn't run all software or isn't the fastest.
>You might not be able to run the latest Windows OS reliably on a 5-7 year old laptop.
That's true, but, unlike with OSX, previous versions of Windows are still supported by the manufacturer and third parties. You might not be able to run Windows 7 on that hardware, but you'll certainly be able to run Windows XP. And, unlike with OSX revisions, Windows XP will be supported for several years yet.
I have a Pentium 4 box with 2GB RAM that runs Windows XP reliably. Its been a solid workhorse for almost 8 years now. Before that, I was running Windows 2000 on a Pentium 2 that was 11 years old.
Of course, another advantage of WinTel systems is that their hardware becomes more and more supported by Linux as they age. When XP finally reaches EOL, I plan to migrate this box to Linux and continue using it as a secondary workstation.
Hmm a vague OS reference and the generic "Apple laptop" instead of just saying what model it is, as there haven't been that many.
I have a feeling this wont be your last Apple because there probably was never a first one. Or you don't want to admit you're talking about a PPC PowerBook which is over five years old at this point.
I'm guessing it would be one of the Intel Core (not Core2) Duos - the first edition Intel Macs. Those won't work with Lion, as they are 32 bit. But it's still quite old.
Unfortunately, my laptop (model posted above) uses the older style ADB-connected trackpad, and the Linux drivers for it are poor, to say the least. I've considered updating them, but honestly haven't had the time, and since I'll replace this thing soon anyway, I probably won't bother.
I'd tend to agree, but the version of compiz shipped with natty is a disaster. I'd recommend maverick, or even oneiric if possible. Or even a distro more focused on reliability.
There's been a lot of churn (OSX, 64bit, Intel) in the Apple world the past few years, I'd be surprised if it continued at the same clip. And frequently you can install Linux once the OS ages too much.
Now that I think of it, many of my old PC laptops had to have Linux put on them as well because they didn't support the latest version of Windows either. Or rather there were no updated device drivers from the manufacturer. So the issue isn't as clear looking to the future.
I'd honestly consider sticking with Apple, because I do really like their hardware, even for the price. But, Apple has been frustrated in the past with their processor manufacturing partners, and there is no doubt in my mind that, now that they own their own processor, they have a planned roadmap that will switch portions of their product line over to the A-series processors. I also think there are clear signs that OS X will eventually be replaced by iOS, at least in the non-server product lines.
Linux is usually a good option, unfortunately there's a specific hardware configuration on my laptop that makes it nearly unusable. (ADB trackpad.) I could resolve that by buying a mouse, but ... meh. It's time to get a new machine anyway.
Why the MBA is better: faster CPU (meh), waaaay better screen (the 11" is the same resolution as the 13" MBP), big trackpad, nice keyboard, and nice speakers.
OK, it's also sexy, but who gives a toss?
And I've been unable to find a reasonably priced PC laptop with an SSD (when I last looked, the only Sony ones with SSD are the MacBook Air clones and the top-of-the-line business and gamer models), so that means swapping a hard drive. Most people don't swap hard drives in laptops.
I don't care about thinness and aluminium casing. I just care about the weight, battery, screen, keyboard, trackpad, and SSD. Apple is the only one that really delivered when I was looking, about 6 months ago.
I do! I do! (Though I won’t ever call anything that’s not a human “sexy”. Sorry.) Don’t assume that just because you don’t care for aesthetics other people also don’t. Aesthetics is one of the most important factors whenever I buy anything and there is nothing wrong with that. (People who don’t care for aesthetics always have so much trouble understanding that, it’s actually quite funny how baffled they always are.)
Its because they see you plunking down hard earned money and getting nothing of substance in return. For example, the laptop I'm typing this on now is a 15" Toshiba that I purchased for $650. The Macbook Pros at the time I bought this had worse specifications (in terms of CPU, RAM, disk and graphics) yet cost more than $300 more.
Hihi. Yours is exactly the kind of reaction I’m talking about. That inability to understand is always quite funny but let me try to explain regardless.
I’m perfectly happy paying money – even a lot of money – for aesthetics. Aesthetics are something of substance for me. Specifications are only one factor for me.
Design (how it is built) and aesthetics (how it looks and feels), specifications and familiarity are the four most important factors I personally use when deciding what computer to buy and they all are pretty much on equal footing for me. Four years ago, I payed $500 more (compared to a Dell laptop with similar specifications) for my MacBook Pro to get more (much better design and better aesthetics).
You might be able to better understand me if you think about something where for you personally aesthetics are an important factor, something you are willing to pay money for. I would be very surprised if there isn’t something like that for you. Maybe office chairs? Cars? Curtains? Bikes? Whatever it is, how you feel about that is how I feel about computers.
I really don’t want to convince you of that view. There is no right or wrong answer to this issue. Some care for aesthetics more, some care less. (Also: Some like Apple’s aesthetic, some don’t.) There is nothing wrong with all of that, just understand that not everyone shares your view.
Thanks for taking the time to respond in a fair and courteous manner. Looking back, my post comes off as more than a little abrasive, so your consideration is appreciated.
I do see where you're coming from (sort of). I recognize that aesthetics can be of substantive value. If that was not the case, artwork would not sell for millions of dollars. That said, I still have to disagree with you regarding Apple. I suspect this may stem from a fundamental divergence in the way we view our computers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you view the form of the computer, in addition to the function, as a primary consideration in the value that you assign to it. I, on the other hand, view the function of the machine as the only consideration when assigning a value to it.
Computers are different enough from other objects that analogies are always suspect, but a limited analogy to tools may be of use here. I would be willing to trade an ergonomic handle and a certain aesthetic look in a wrench for a 20% gain in torque strength. I suspect that you would not be as sure to make that trade-off. At the very least, you would perhaps consider whether you really needed the advantage in strength.
If it was on a table next to an Air under a sign that said, "free computers" which one would you grab first?
Turns out $1,000 more isn't that much for a productivity tool these days; the dollar ain't what it used to be. Not to mention you'd probably get a much nicer screen and keyboard which helps a lot for coding.
That said, I'm still using my trusty Sony tr2a for trips just because of inertia and that it still works fine. But I won't pretend I wouldn't rather have an Air. ;)
I'd probably take the Air, try it out, decide I didn't like it or Mac, and resell it. Buy the original thing I saw, or something else cheaper and nicer, and treat myself to a large steak afterwards.
I have had my new Macbook Air for about 3 weeks now, I am primarily a Windows developer. Let me tell you something, after 3 weeks with Lion (with VMWare Fusion for Visual Studio) I am fairly positive I will never buy or make a PC again.
I cannot explain this, these are things I never thought I would even think let alone say. The laptop boots the Android emulator and runs eclipse much faster than my primary pc which is a i7 tri-channel w/24gb ram.
The gestures and infinite desktops on Lion make it so much more usable than a default Windows machine or any other Linux variant I use.
I just wanted to chime in since you said
>decide I didn't like it or Mac
Which, trust me, if you care about productivity or are amazed by superior resource management, not liking it would simply be an unjust bias coming to fruition.
> The laptop boots the Android emulator and runs eclipse much faster than my primary pc which is a i7 tri-channel w/24gb ram.
Which is... odd. I bought an Air in December, and stopped using it (gave it to a family member) because I couldn't stand how slow it was compared to my hand-built Windows desktop. I'm talking ~10 seconds after waking from sleep before it would even recognise that I was typing on the keyboard, and persistent beachballing whenever I had too many tabs or a VM open (again, for Visual Studio). The gestures were nice, but they're nothing my multi-button mouse didn't solve.
I'm not saying your experiences are wrong, but... it's strange to see someone make the same transition that I did, only to have the opposite result.
Yes, although it isn't the fastest possible. I don't notice a huge difference between the SSD in the primary PC and my 10k RPM Raptor I used to have as the OS disk.
I am not aware of the specs of the SSD in the Macbook.
This is exactly what I suspected was causing the perceived boost though.
Sure, but my mind has changed on things before, I like to give it the opportunity to change, so I'd probably try it. And yes, I would probably dislike it. If you had made the argument that I could resell it for more if it was sealed, I think that's a stronger reason not to try it.
I had almost the exact same setup, and ended up moving to a Macbook Air recently -- basically for a nice screen and a good trackpad. It's difficult to find decent screens in the sub-$500 price range.
Same, Asus EeePC 1000HE running Ubuntu Netbook Edition 10.04 like a champ. As responsive as a regular laptop for most things, and the heavy lifting I offload to AWS free tier. Everything redundantly backed up to Dropbox and SpiderOak. <3 it.
Having said that, I'll probably pick up 13" Macbook Pro or Air soon to start getting into iOS dev, and have to say I do look forward to running VMs locally again, even though AWS free tier obsoletes that now.
I recently bought a ThinkPad as my first laptop, but it's unfortunately got some technical issues (need to send it off for warranty). In the mean time I've been using my old ASUS Eee PC 1000HA, and I've really settled in. I'm surprised at how productive I am, despite the lack of horsepower.
Sorry, three years ago it was impossible to find dual core SSD based net books for that price... Care to tell us what model and where you bought this wonder of engineering in 2008? Something doesn't add up.
There used to be a saying about MS; that it took them three goes to get a product right
I was thinking about Apple products, and I think perhaps they deserve this now. Each new (1st gen) product from Apple is a bit short on features and a bit expensive, but they have commitment. 2nd gen is a decent product, and 3rd gen has typically been great. [Cases in point: iPhone, iPod, MacBook Air, Apple TV (3rd gen still to come)]
The difference (between Apple and HP et al) comes down to commitment to a product. Apple (like MS) gear them selves up for the long haul; they expect to spend lots and take years to achieve their vision. Other PC manufacturers (speaking very generally here) seem to have a bit of a half arsed shot at something and kill it if it doesn't fly.
I think you're speaking of the late 90's MS, they seem to have lost much of that edge.
Apple does something a bit different. It starts slow, getting the core features right and then builds on them. It doesn't pile on features, they are added slowly only as they mature.
Of course it also drives demand for several years, a very profitable formula.
It's what all startups (here) should follow; make a MVP and if it works perfect it. Normal practice you would hope, yet it isn't; comments here and to the article directly are too techy. The 'public' wants the air because it looks great and is easy to use; they don't care about 'power'. Don't take it from me or the article writer; just look at the sales. People who would normally not consider spending $1000 on a laptop are buying these, I can see it around me; men and women, computer illiterates a lot of them, went from 300-400$ netbooks to the latest air. No-one knows what processor or memory they have, they are light, just work and are 'much easier than Windows' (between quotes, because I don't find either one particularly easier or harder than the other one; just a matter of getting used to).
People who talk about 'better specs', 'only a few inches thicker but twice the cpu power', 'does have a dvd drive' are tech or at least into computers; most people are not, they don't care.
He's spot on with one thing: manufacturers shouldn't let their customers tell them what to build. The general public usually doesn't know what it wants until it has already appeared.
I agree. You learn about your customer's pains, then build a product to ease them. Asking your customer what features they want is lazy product management and gives you " me, too" products.
The line is remarkably blurry. There's a modern breed of "multiaxis machine" which are capable of both milling and turning. Nobody really knows what to call them, I imagine because they have more in common with industrial robots than a traditional machine tool. Lathe is probably the wrong word for the type of machine in question, but milling machine isn't that much more accurate.
I can confirm that there is a global shortage of certain types of CNC machining capacity. CNC machining is much less common than you might imagine in volume production. It's an expensive process that designers are usually desperate to avoid. Apple raised the bar for fit and finish with the Unibody Macbook and rather caught the rest of the industry on the back foot. A lot of designers and engineers still just don't see why you'd manufacture a housing in such an expensive and convoluted manner. Laptop OEMs are certainly not equipped for it, presenting substantial logistical problems.
Just regarding the minor point of nomenclatural pedantry, this video (in last half of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OOtuftGO1U) shows some machining of the case and I would say that what they are using is indisputably a milling machine.
So ive always been a pc guy. But more and more lately ive been playing around with linux distros. It's about time to get a new laptop, and ive been looking around the market causually for a bit. i really want one with only linux (system 76 looks kinda good). but the more and more I look around, the more i'm drawn to macbooks. they are just SO.FUCKING.SEXY. Their case is perfect. the gui looks incredible. they just work. im pretty much to the point where im going to have to build my own to get what i want, or buy a mac. and its going to be hard to find any kind of case thats as sexy as macs, mostly cuz nobody makes anything like it.
pc companies, listen up. I want linux, on an ssd, in a case that SEPERATES itsself from all your other plastic junk, IN A GOOD WAY. dont be average, dont be consertive, do be a perfectionist. dont try to please everybody. I think this is macs biggest weapon, they dont try to please everybody, they build what steve wants. tfa hit the point perfectly with the hp calc comparisson, and i feel the same way. fucking grow some balls. this goes for cell phones too. Fuck I hate motorolla.
I mostly agree but I also think it has been done. You couldn't give me an Air for free and get me to give up my Sony VAIO Z. I also have a VAIO TZ here which was way ahead of the Air in its time. To me Sony is one of the few companies building truly innovative PCs but unfortunately they aren't moving enough volume to make them really price competitive at the low end. When you buy them fully loaded they are often slightly cheaper than a high end Macbook (with Apple's killer upgrade prices) but they just don't compete mass market wise in the cheaper price ranges.
I know it's not the point of your comment, but I'll point out that one of the major reasons I don't buy Apple products is how uncomfortable I am with the idea of Apple having more control over the tech industry...I simply don't trust them to do right by consumers when given a very strong market position.
Sony is one of the few hardware companies that I trust even less than Apple; actually I have a pretty strong dislike for Sony, not merely distrust. So, I'd be more likely to buy an Apple product than a Sony product if all other things were equal (and all other things aren't equal; Sony products look pretty ugly to me, while Apple products are beautiful).
> You couldn't give me an Air for free and get me to give up my Sony VAIO Z.
Right, but you paid considerably more than the price of an Air for that machine. That's the point. You wouldn't switch, but for anyone looking for an ultraportable now, it's hard to beat the Air in any capacity.
As someone who was looking for a great ultraportable for years and kept a very close eye on Sony, I snapped up the 11 inch Air ASAP. Nothing can step anywhere close to it when it comes to offering a well rounded ultraportable.
Also Sony did a few things that make them a difficult choice, like distributing root kits. Last time I tried one of their notebooks it was also loaded with crapware to the rim - and it was a high end model, too.
I personally have a Samsung Series 9. Besides the price tag and battery life (about 3-5 hours), I am happy with it. Unlike the Air, this thing has quite good linux support (the graphics work, but could be better; this is true of all sandy bridge computers). I know someone who used to run linux on his Air, but he gave up after all the crashes. These were related to his Broadcom wireless card, I believe. I used to have a Broadcom in my computer, it worked but I replaced it for a card with dual-band support.
On an Air, a lot of components (like ram and ssd) are soldered on the board. On the Samsung, they are easily replaceable. In fact, I have already put in a new wireless card and added more RAM. It comes apart easily with a Phillips-head screwdriver. In the future, I will probably upgrade the SSD (it has 128GB at the moment). A new 'msata' standard has emerged from all these Ultra-portables, which use the pcie plug.
And you could probably sell the old one for $800. Recent Apple hardware holds it's value pretty well. The guy in line behind me for the iPad 2 launch just sold his iPad 1 that day for $100 less than he paid. So his net was paying $100 for a year of iPad 1 use (minus network fees and tax).
So when will Apple introduce hardware subscriptions?
> one of the main reasons people don’t buy a Mac these days is because they can’t buy one for less than $1,000, pricing your Mac alternative well above that price doesn’t do you any favors.<
I'm not in the US, but isnt the Air $999?
Not much less than 1k, but an odd statement considering the focus of the article. Am I missing something?
I love my Air (and my other Apple products); aside from excellent hardware and software, one of the big advantages for me is that there are Apple retail stores all over -- I can walk in and have a pretty consistently good experience (buying accessories, or getting service, or buying a replacement if necessary); far better than any other computer retail store or mail order process.
For a company, being able to fairly easily get ~30 correctly-configured machines instantly is great too -- with Dell, I'd be stuck waiting until they build and ship, and with HP or other vendors, trying to find a store which stocks them.
Really? My experience with Apple stores has been so consistently terrible (long wait times WITH an appointment, techs that can't do anything but send it away for a long wait) that one reason I'm going back to a Thinkpad is the overnight mailers Lenovo drops off when you need something fixed.
Where do you live? In SFBA, the Palo Alto University Ave store has consistently been amazing; if you get a business account, service is globally even better.
The PA-U store has done fixes up to basically replacing entire just-out-of-warranty machines for me. I've had same-day repairs, and at worst, 3 day mail away, but usually overnight fixes. A lot of it comes down to how you engage the staff -- being an easy customer (having done all the checks, being really polite, etc.) helps. One big plus is having everything already backed up, so it's ok for them to wipe/replace drives if they need to.
My only complaint is that some markets don't have Apple Stores yet, especially internationally.
Thinkpad service is the one other kind of service which is good; their contract support outside the US is superior to the Apple international support. Unfortunately they don't sell a full line, only laptops (at least, their desktop products are pretty weak in comparison).
On the purchasing side, though, Apple wins hands down. Lenovo is painful because there are 25-50% discounts periodically, so you feel you're being ripped off if you don't buy during those times. And, website without a lot of the options (e.g. you couldn't order a QXGA R51 online, only through the phone), etc. And no good retailer stocking anything but ideapads in person.
I have to agree with you. I've tried phone support with other brands and it's been terrible.
With Apple, I can take a 20 minute drive and speak with somebody who is knowledgeable, polite and actually able to authorise almost anything on the spot, even if it's not exactly in line with policy.
Point in case, my brother's MacBook battery died about a month out of (non-AppleCare) warranty. The genius did some diagnostics and replaced the battery for free.
has anyone else noticed horrible dithering on the new macbook air's screen? i will say that i absolutely love the machine otherwise, but - especially when e.g. watching a movie - i find this problem terribly distracting and have even thought about returning it as a result.
I mean if you're HP, your Windows 7 is always going to be just the same as Dell's Windows 7. If Apple decides that they can use a new scheduling algorithm to better exploit current hardware, they can do that. Acer and Asus have to wait for Microsoft to release a patch or roll out the next version of Windows (in... N years).
I'm not taking the position that Windows 7 is so intrinsically terrible that it can't support the 'ultrabook' category, just like you're not supporting the position that it couldn't be improved upon.
They can write plugins and applets, but if you can't modify the operating system it's really easy to wind up with "you can't get there from here in Jersey" moments. Like all of those horrible network control applet replacements that were endemic a few years back.
Total Price: $450.
Granted, not sexy looking at all. Not particularly thin.
Runs Windows 7 Ultimate like a champ. The only time the low processing power ever bothers me is when I'm unzipping large files.
It's cheap, made of plastic and plastered with stickers. I carry it in my man purse, and bounce it around with me pretty much everywhere I go. I've been doing that for years.
Everything is backed up to DropBox. It's so cheap as to be disposable. If it breaks, I don't care. I'll buy a new one. I have a full set of USB / Network, VGA ports, and I don't have to worry about buying extra dongles to connect things to a projector. The little brute has been stable as a rock. I can't remember a single crash in 3 years.
It has enough battery life for me to be able to Code from Barcelona to SFO on one charge, and I typically charge the little beast about once or twice a week.
Yup. PC makers just can't keep up.