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I agree that the fact it's threatening is the key issue. It was threatening to me for years before I took the leap. People have softened to the idea, but it is still the only stance I hold that I still get either rigorously questioned or belittled for - despite all the commercial and cultural support that continues to grow for it. This doesn't happen for any other political, ethical, or religious stance I hold - such confrontation would be frowned upon under normal circumstances, so there must be a reason for such a trigger. We are now actively weighing the benefits versus the costs of animal agriculture in a different light, because for the first time in our history we are, by in large, no longer reliant on it for our survival as individuals.

A young philosophy YouTuber of all people (Alex O'Connor) was the one who put the ethics of veganism in the right light for me; I had already decreased my animal product consumption to almost nothing with it being the leading cause of deforestation and habitat loss, but was not sold on the animal rights front in the slightest. Alex dismantled all my "egotistical" arguments as you put it. I followed it by reading his recommendation of Peter Signers book 'Animal Liberation' which really nailed the coffin as it were.

I recommend these videos [1][2] and this book [3] whole-heartedly for those who are on the fence, or even far beyond it but would like a "reasoned" view of veganism rather than the shallow arguments to might hear from your hippie friend or 14 year-old newly vegan niece/nephew.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1vW9iSpLLk&t=192s [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVR2OVxPYw [3] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation




Sorry but have you noticed that there is a vocal minority of vegans who are very aggressive in the way they promote their ideology? For example, "meat is murder" is not exactly the kind of thing you say when you want to start a calm conversation. So perhaps what you perceive as "threatening" is not the idea of not eating meat but the behaviour of some vegans.


No doubt, many vegans are passionate to the point of aggression. However, one can understand that response if you see it through a lens of a vegan. I wouldn't expect the murder of a person to be met with calm conversation for the most part, let alone the consumption of one. For a person who sees the distinction between species as completely arbitrary, having such a conversation would be like yourself having a conversation with a child murderer. Again, I can not recommend the two videos I linked enough. It will give you a great insight to the thinking that often is behind that anger you see in the vocal minority.

That point aside however, when I say threatening I mean that it's not uncommon for myself and others to get accosted by someone simply mentioning that we are vegan. Again, there is no other position I hold where I can say nothing at all (I mean this genuinely - I actively avoid the discussion to the point that I will tell people I won't talk about with them), yet I will still be talked at for 30 minutes about how my ethics are wrong. The only comparison I can give is when people are hurled racist or homophobic comments with no provocation. Even within my close friend group, of whom none are vegan, have noticed it and will swiftly interject when it happens. I mean this with all honestly, if I am at a party with say 10 people who I don't know, at least 1 person there will try to talk at me until I find an excuse to leave. To me, it seems like they hold insecurities about their own ethics and are trying to reason their way out of it, as if I were their therapist. It's happens way to often and is frankly bizarre.


Actually, I don't think it's bizzarre. If you think it's normal that someone who is vegan will treat ordinary people as murderers because they do something that nobody else thinks of as "murder", except for the person who is vegan, then it's normal for others to treat vegans as a target for their (probably clumsy) philosophising. If we're gonna have a big old culture war, then it's a free for all and why should only one side get to have fun with it?

The root cause of this is an unwillingness to even acknowledge the existence of a different point of view in other peoples' heads. The militatnt vegan is incapable of considering the fact that "meat is murder" is her own opinion and that it is not shared by everyone around her, in fact she wants to make everyone around her not just aware of what she thinks, but also agree with her, and if people dont' agree with her it's because they're not just murderers, they're also idiots who can't see how they're murderers. The idiot who buttonholes you to tell you your ideas are wrong similarly can't get it around his big fat head that some people think different than he does- or he's just a fucking bully who thinks he's got the majority on his side and can torment you all he likes. I'm happy to hear your friends stick up for you.

Still, what happens to you is not that strange if you see it in the context of peoples' inability to consider others' point of view and understand others' thiking, even just to disagree with it better.

And btw, I think you and the other poster above are doing that too, when you say that others are "threatened" by your veganism. Perhaps it's just me, but it sounds more like you two are bragging about your unorthodox ideas that challenge others' misconceptions, than really trying to understand what's going on in other peoples' heads.




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