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while that's somewhat true, it doesn't solve the problem. Asking for people to sacrifice themselves for others with no reward is not sustainable.

If a gov't wants software written, there will be somebody willing to write it.

Only checks and balances, and high transparency within the gov't can work in the long term.




Yes. But we do have measures. Why not start our own firms with these ethics and refuse to work for entities that do. And dog food our own responsible privacy respecting code. Maybe it means we need to stop chasing the higher and higher paychecks, but none of these entities can survive if we choose to not apply to work for them and do something else. The point is, there is a point where engineers are at fault just as much as companies and governments. Continuing to build these things and say "well the bad man in the business suit told me too" has to stop if we really want to tackle this problem. Legislation won't help, we can't compete with corporate donors.


It's very hard for people to not take a higher paycheck. That higher paycheck may be the difference between paying off debts and not paying off debts. It may be the difference between sending your child to a good school or a bad school. It may be the difference between not being screwed over or being screwed over during your next hospital visit. It may be the difference between a family member dying or being treated.


It's not just that it's hard to refuse a bigger paycheck, but that everyone needs to refuse it. If 95% of people who could implement something refuse to do so on moral grounds - that won't be an impediment to the thing getting done.


When I grumble about collecting needless data, conditioning users to insecure practices or similar ethical concerns, my manager usually drops it. There - I think I've made some difference.

If you have an source of developers, where you can discard 95% without effect, could you please find me a haskell developer, sysadmin and a ee engineer woking in kicad? Salary - good in Eastern Europe. I'd prefer those that do have morals and standards. Thank you very much.

95% of developers refusing to build, won't stop PRISM or FAANG by not building. What it can do (along some explanations and reasoning), is to unrecognizably change the landscape, change availability and perception of privacy and security, and in a roundabout way, maybe even stop or at least reduce PRISM, FAANG, et al. data collation.

Currently, about 5% of websites respect their user's data? What if it was 95%?


Exactly. You do not need 100% or 95%. You just need enough to start changing the culture and landscape. Some of those people with industry experience but with values steeped in privacy and security will go on to educate (literally in academia) and mentor junior developers/engineers. It can be about trying to get enough support to change the landscape to create a feedback loop of a culture of developers/engineers taking into mind how their actions in a source file impact the end user's privacy and security.


So if 1 person throws out a styrofoam cup, we all should just say screw it and do it too?

Just because some people may not have any guiding principles doesn’t mean everyone should abandon principles.

That is another way to look at it.


Bad analogy. Disposing of a cup properly doesn't threaten your life.

Quitting work without alternatives would put many people in grave danger, including not being able to receive hospital care, or not having a place to live.


Yes but what is the other alternative? People say legislation. But we all know we can't out compete the businessmen/businesswoman and stock holders. The only tangible alternative is to just not do the work. Unless someone has a plan to crowd source the lobbying money to make the legislation, I see no other path.


> just not do the work.

And how exactly is this person supposed to pay their rent and food costs?

"Don't do the work" isn't a viable solution for a lot of people. Pressure has to be put on the decision makers AND law, not the poor dude who is just trying to feed their family.

If you have enough rent saved up for a year, you might have the luxury of being able to say no.




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