Somewhat related: In his recent book "This is Your Mind on Plants", Michael Pollan also discusses caffeine addiction. Transcript of an interview with him on Tim Ferriss' blog:
I've been off caffeine and yerba mate (of which the yerba I consumed daily for the past 9 or so years) for two weeks. Feels really great, I admit being somewhat less sharp mentally (for now), but I still get everything relevant done. And -- maybe yet I feel kind of more... mentally balanced? Imagine having less thoughts throughout the day, but the ones you have, you'll like more. :)
It's like my energy levels are much more consistent, no sudden drops throughout the day -- and that's even when I'm doing heavy physical work. (I'm a full-time forestry worker, tree planter, brush cutter these days -- now not even thinking about the usual midday yerba mate kick I used to rely on.)
The tiredness that sets in at night also feels much more calming. So IMO it's a highly recommended shift overall -- I guess just the first 4-5-6-7 days without coffee/strong tea may be really hard.
Do you think doing a job involving more physical than mental labor made it easier to get through the withdrawal? It seems like pushing through the stupor is tough but doable for physical stuff, whereas with mental work (like programming) you can be pretty much knocked out of commission until the symptoms subside.
> Do you think doing a job involving more physical than mental labor made it easier to get through the withdrawal?
Very probably, yes. IIRC, I have actually tried quitting yerba/coffee a few times earlier as well while doing mostly mental work. And I always failed. Currently my days in the forest consist of several 1.5h brush cutting sessions -- meaning, during that time, I am in nonstop movement, cutting the brush, unable to do anything else. During a break between the sessions, I am usually heavily dehydrated, so my body just wants a lot of water. I think I've even come to dislike the idea of having coffee or (really surprisingly) yerba mate at that point.
Currently I usually work 3x1.5h sessions every day, plus water drinking breaks and saw blade sharpening, so it's around 5-6 hours in the woods every day. And, in the forest you have no coffee shops, no other shops, no fridges. And, if you manage not to take coffee with you, there's simply no coffee at all nearby! I suppose that's the essential part of the whole trick.
I plan to return to mental work for the winter. I do think staying off yerba/coffee will be a struggle again for indoor work and/or cold season.
Yes, brush cutting, probably till the end of August or so. I have never logged bigger trees, and I would rather not do this either, for ethical reasons. (My logic: it feels sort-of OK to take care of trees already planted -- even though this is also part of the intensive forest management industry, and it helps to create monocultures --, but let's try to preserve as much of the older forests as we can.)
I'm in Eastern/Northern Europe, so the tree planting season ended here in July. There will be a tiny amount of planting work in the autumn as well, though.
For those interested, I watched and liked this documentary about tree planting in Canada (where it appears to be a huge industry). It's from the early 2010s, so I'm not sure about the money part -- my gut feeling says that maybe the "huge money days" are getting over for this industry. But, who knows. I have modest needs, so I do say that a skilled tree planter still makes good money, even in my (poor) country. Here's the 1-hour movie "78 days":
You don't have to quit caffeine cold turkey. You can just ramp down from n cups of coffee/day to 1 cup, then switch to n cups of tea/day (black or green) and ramp down to 1 cup, then switch to low-caffeine or caffeine-free tea, then stop entirely.
Have been off caffeine for several years now. Took probably a couple months to reach a point where I felt comfortable going into an interview or important meeting without it. Now I don't miss it at all, but if I ever do have it, a cup of decaf coffee will have me buzzing for hours, and an espresso will make me extremely uncomfortable and jittery - crazy that that used to be my baseline intake.
Now I don't miss it at all, but if I ever do
have it, a cup of decaf coffee will have me
buzzing for hours, and an espresso will make
me extremely uncomfortable and jittery
I think you're rather lucky! Whenever I successfully wean myself away from caffeine... one reason I can never stay away is because when I go back to it, it feels so good.
However I feel lucky myself in a different way. Never been tempted by harder drugs because caffeine has taught me I'd never stand a chance against them lol.
Coding and other such mental work is very tough for me unless a lot of factors line up. But I can stay focused on physical tasks even if I'm feeling like garbage - even something like tennis that's both mental+physical.
edit: Are you talking about sudden "cold turkey" quitting + the subsequent withdrawal? The answer to that is hell no -- if I try anything that foolish I'm really in for some hurt. Luckily as others have noted, there's no need to experience withdrawal if you taper dosage down over a week or two.
Exactly, i find mental work close to impossible a few days after quitting caffeine. I can do social stuff to an extend and get manual labor stuff done, but not anything requiring initiative and self discipline.
Curious, do you use anything else? I like trying out various ideas on long or difficult hikes. One category that consistently helps is the anti-inflammatory category.
I've also tried some pretty interesting nootropics including one that was designed to support work in extreme environments, and the difference in feeling from caffeine was pretty wild. (I did have some pretty fascinating but unwanted side effects while getting the dosage dialed in, basically what I'd call super soldier mode, so I hesitate to mention it by name...)
Nope, nothing else. I have been heavily relying on yerba mate -- one sip or tiny cup works wonders during heavy tree planting sessions. This has always been my secret weapon, because, in contrast to coffee, it doesn't seem to cause a feeling of fluid loss.
Also, during tree planting, I only occasionally eat a few carrots or other vegetables to help me finish the day. After that, a well-deserved meal will follow.
Disclaimer, though: I have experimented with intermittent fasting for several years, so I suppose my body has already adapted to long periods of hunger. Be careful with this stuff, though, and don't listen to my silly advice.
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're getting at, but, in the anti-inflammatory category, glucosamine and aspirin are both great, and have some pretty good science behind them.
https://tim.blog/2021/06/30/michael-pollan-this-is-your-mind...
I've been off caffeine and yerba mate (of which the yerba I consumed daily for the past 9 or so years) for two weeks. Feels really great, I admit being somewhat less sharp mentally (for now), but I still get everything relevant done. And -- maybe yet I feel kind of more... mentally balanced? Imagine having less thoughts throughout the day, but the ones you have, you'll like more. :)
It's like my energy levels are much more consistent, no sudden drops throughout the day -- and that's even when I'm doing heavy physical work. (I'm a full-time forestry worker, tree planter, brush cutter these days -- now not even thinking about the usual midday yerba mate kick I used to rely on.)
The tiredness that sets in at night also feels much more calming. So IMO it's a highly recommended shift overall -- I guess just the first 4-5-6-7 days without coffee/strong tea may be really hard.